PC a19 blows - bring back the auger

[JaxTeller718]

He is trying to be insulting. In his mind a house-flipper couldn’t possibly know or understand how to make a video game. He probably believes that their success was just dumb luck. It is a pretty common attitude amongst those who are envious over the success of others. 
 

The truth is that there are people who are successful at whatever they do because of who they are. If that guy tried his hand at real estate he’d probably be just as unsuccessful at it as if he tried to produce his own video game. The fact that Joel has made millions doing both completely escapes his comprehension. 
 

It’s similar to how he thinks this game is such an utter failure and deviation from the Kickstarter goals when in fact it is exactly as promised and more popular and engaging than ever before. Sure...there has been an evolution of how the promised features are implemented but those features are still in place. 

To tag on to your point I would say being a blue collar "house flipper" who developed a game they wanted to play actually worked out in their favor. Go stroll through Twitch, or through server discords. You will see a LOT of middle aged to older aged players. Right alongside younger ones. I would say that their life experience actually puts them MORE in tune with what the common player enjoys and wants to see in a game.

I've never seen a more diverse group of players in terms of age than this one.

 

[AlphaOmega]

That takes way way too much imagination. There is nothing remotely common or even similar between your story and the development history of 7 Days to Die. 
 

Much closer to reality is that someone preordered a Bowie album thinking it was a collection of Christmas carols only to be shocked when the actual album was so different. 
 

If that “analogy” is really how you feel then why on earth are you still hanging around?  There MUST be other games you’d enjoy better. The popularity of this game has grown and that wouldn’t be true if your imagination was anywhere close to the mark. If you’re here thinking you can somehow influence a change to their development path, well...let’s just say that is even more wildly imaginative than your Bowie story....
 

My analogy is spot on. The kickstarter goals have NOT been delivered. It's why thousands of people have demanded refunds.

Your analogy is not applicable at all because the final promised product has not yet been delivered. If they released Gold tomorrow and it contained all the kickstarter promised features, but it was slightly different than what we expected, then yes, your analogy would be appropriate. But as it stands now, your analogy is not based in truth and reality, whereas mine is. And I mean no disrespect when referring to Joel as a house flipper. I mention that as a sign of respect. Anyone who has chased turds and remodeled bathrooms deserves respect in my books, and I'm happy that he's made millions of dollars as a dev. I'm not happy that those millions were given to him and he has yet to deliver what was promised for those millions.

 

[meganoth]

My analogy is spot on. The kickstarter goals have NOT been delivered. It's why thousands of people have demanded refunds.

Your analogy is not applicable at all because the final promised product has not yet been delivered. If they released Gold tomorrow and it contained all the kickstarter promised features, but it was slightly different than what we expected, then yes, your analogy would be appropriate. But as it stands now, your analogy is not based in truth and reality, whereas mine is. And I mean no disrespect when referring to Joel as a house flipper. I mention that as a sign of respect. Anyone who has chased turds and remodeled bathrooms deserves respect in my books, and I'm happy that he's made millions of dollars as a dev. I'm not happy that those millions were given to him and he has yet to deliver what was promised for those millions.

Where in the kickstarter was there a promise that the product would be final?

 

[AlphaOmega]

Where in the kickstarter was there a promise that the product would be final?

Right there where it says what each pledge level will receive.


Pledge US$ 35 or more



THE SUNRISE SURVIVALIST - Early Alpha Access + Beta + Finished Game + Kickstarter Backer Badge

Estimated delivery Aug 2013




 

 

[hiemfire]

Estimated delivery Aug 2013

 

[Solomon]

"Quote"

So if you order a new TV get an estimated delivery time of 1 week you wont complain when you dont get your TV at all?

Like damm dude, an estimated software finish does not mean 1 year or in our case 7 years and still not done.

 

[Kalen]

So if you order a new TV get an estimated delivery time of 1 week you wont complain when you dont get your TV at all?

Like damm dude, an estimated software finish does not mean 1 year or in our case 7 years and still not done.

if I got my TV immediately.... and it was watchable but didn't have all the features added yet.  Then over the years they kept improving my TV, even though I was thoroughly enjoying it as it was.

Yeah, I wouldn't complain.

 

[AlphaOmega]

if I got my TV immediately.... and it was watchable but didn't have all the features added yet.  Then over the years they kept improving my TV, even though I was thoroughly enjoying it as it was.

Yeah, I wouldn't complain.

So you'd be happy with waiting....

1 year for a 9" black and white TV with no sound and only 1 channel

2 years for a 13" B&W TV with sound, but the sound is just elevator music

3 years for a 19" color TV with actual sound, still only 1 channel though

4 years for a 27" color TV with sound and 10 channels

5 years for a 42" LED TV with sound and 99 channels

6 years  They remove 43 channels and replace the sound with monkeys banging on trash cans because the CEO likes that kind stuff better.

7 years   The TV is now a 60" projection big screen that weighs 690 lbs. It gets 56 channels and still has monkeys banging on trash cans for sound. No wireless or smart features even though they were promised. But if you spend 200 hours rewiring your TV and rewriting every line of code in the firmware, you can get actual audio instead of trash monkeys, and you can enable an additional 1200 channels. Still no smart features or internet connectivity. Still a ungodly bulky projection screen.

 

[Kalen]

So you'd be happy with waiting....

1 year for a 9" black and white TV with no sound and only 1 channel

2 years for a 13" B&W TV with sound, but the sound is just elevator music

3 years for a 19" color TV with actual sound, still only 1 channel though

4 years for a 27" color TV with sound and 10 channels

5 years for a 42" LED TV with sound and 99 channels

6 years  They remove 43 channels and replace the sound with monkeys banging on trash cans because the CEO likes that kind stuff better.

7 years   The TV is now a 60" projection big screen that weighs 690 lbs. It gets 56 channels and still has monkeys banging on trash cans for sound. No wireless or smart features even though they were promised. But if you spend 200 hours rewiring your TV and rewriting every line of code in the firmware, you can get actual audio instead of trash monkeys, and you can enable an additional 1200 channels. Still no smart features or internet connectivity. Still a ungodly bulky projection screen.

Well, first of all I disagree with your assessment of the quality of the "TV".

But, if I felt I got my money's worth out of the product, then yes, I'd be happy with it.

 

[meganoth]

So if you order a new TV get an estimated delivery time of 1 week you wont complain when you dont get your TV at all?

Like damm dude, an estimated software finish does not mean 1 year or in our case 7 years and still not done.

With kickstarter it does practically. I have backed upwards of 70 projects on kickstarter, almost all of them games, and I would be lucky to find even one that kept the estimate even in a ballpark sort of way. I was lucky in that a high percentage of them resulted in an acceptable or even high-quality game. But if I made a fuss about delivery date or thought it was some sort of preorder scheme, kickstarter would be a complete failure.

If you want guarantees, don't use kickstarter and don't use early access. At least steam has that warning on each store page of an EA game that you should only buy the game if you think the current version is worth it. In general if you buy your tv on kickstarter you should get your head examined carefully, because KS is not a TV shop nor amazon.

 

[Roland]

And I mean no disrespect when referring to Joel as a house flipper. I mention that as a sign of respect.

As far as I'm concerned this is an indication of the lie and duplicity of your entire post. ANYONE who read your original post referring to Joel as "a house flipper" grokked that you meant it in a derogatory way. There is no chance your full intent was lost through text. You clearly were saying that game design was out of Joel's element because he was a house flipper and not a real game developer. Trying to back pedal now and say that in that context you meant it as a sign of respect is an insult to the intelligence of everyone who is reading this thread. The same is true of your use of the comment section of the kickstarter page. There are not thousands demanding refunds. There ARE thousands wondering what's going on and most comments are from 4 or more years ago. Several said they have reported TFP to Kickstarter for fraud and invoked their right to a refund of their pledge and guess why nothing has ever come of it? Because those people are wrong and so are you. TFP can easily show that they have been in constant development. There has never been a period of time where someone can point to abandonment of the game or an intent to not finish. If some of those people did open a law suit against TFP for fraud they would lose big. 

Many of those comments were from when the console edition came out and they were upset about that. It's fine that they were upset that a finished console version was released before they got a finished PC version from their pledge but there is no violation of the kickstarter agreement that was made. TFP didn't even cease development on the PC version while the console port was being made because they partnered with Telltale who took care of that side of things. Then there are a whole bunch of posts of people who are just clearly ignorant that they could have been playing the game all along. They seem to not understand that their pledge gave them a key that allowed them to play the game while waiting for the final version and they seem to be sitting around just waiting for their key to arrive for the final version. I can attest that all keys were sent out back in 2013 to enable anyone who pledged access to the game. Furthermore, a follow-up email went out once the game went to Steam with instructions for converting their kickstarter key into a Steam key. I personally help 1-2 people per week still today in converting their old keys into a Steam key so they can play the game. Many of them admit remembering having received that email 7 years ago but not doing anything about it until now and are worried because they no longer have those emails. But they all get their keys because they are in our system and as soon as I do a search and confirm their identity, they get the key they were promised which they could have had these past 7 years if they had done something about it. What's more, I have never gotten a reply from someone I helped get their promised key that was not congratulator and happy with the obvious progress the game has made since they pledged. It is obvious to anyone who backed this game and has followed development that the game has made great progress, is a labor of love,  will not be abandoned, and exceeds the original expectations in every possible way.

 

[Roland]

Well, first of all I disagree with your assessment of the quality of the "TV".

But, if I felt I got my money's worth out of the product, then yes, I'd be happy with it.

This is key. @AlphaOmega feels that the quality of gameplay and his experience with the game has not been worth the $35 that the pledge cost. Nobody can dispute his own personal experience. However, it is clear from the success and constant upward growth of player base over the last 7 years that @AlphaOmega is really unique in his assessment of the value we have gotten for the money we paid. By far, most people feel they have gotten their money's worth in terms of gameplay and entertainment and the past seven years have not been an odious horrible return on their purchase.

Even most people who disagree with recent design choices say that they have gotten their money's worth out of the game. So it isn't just you, Kalen, who disagrees with the assessment of the quality of the "TV" or the quality of the "album" they've had while waiting for the final version. These few people who come here and demand for the updates to stop and for TFP to just be done and let the game be forevermore a static game in a final state are not who we want TFP to listen to. They wanted the game to be done 6 years ago as it was. Can you imagine what the game would have been like if they would have slapped together the goals and released it as it appeared in May of 2014?  @AlphaOmega deceptively is running the narrative that what we will be getting someday will BE what we would have gotten in May of 2014 but just 8 or 9 years late when the truth is that what we will get greatly exceeds what we would've gotten if the game just released back then.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Please tell me the names of the mods that must be installed to make the game playable. I’d really be interested to know which ones are doing the work that TFP should be doing and making the game the way it is intended to be.  Pretend I’m a new player that just downloaded the game because I must have missed the thread where everyone is helping new players by telling them to be sure to install these critical mods.  So what are your picks because the devs @%$#ed up and the game can’t run as intended without ______________, _____________, and ______________?
 

Wait, let me guess one of them: Sorcery!  Right...?

The only one essential mod is the nudity mod.   Everything else is take it or leave it.

 

[JCrook1028]

It's why thousands of people have demanded refunds.

Oh Boy! Over the last 3 years there's like 15 people complaining! Such huge numbers! lmao.

 

[Solomon]

With kickstarter it does practically. I have backed upwards of 70 projects on kickstarter, almost all of them games, and I would be lucky to find even one that kept the estimate even in a ballpark sort of way. I was lucky in that a high percentage of them resulted in an acceptable or even high-quality game. But if I made a fuss about delivery date or thought it was some sort of preorder scheme, kickstarter would be a complete failure.

If you want guarantees, don't use kickstarter and don't use early access. At least steam has that warning on each store page of an EA game that you should only buy the game if you think the current version is worth it. In general if you buy your tv on kickstarter you should get your head examined carefully, because KS is not a TV shop nor amazon.

Oh, i dont trust kickstarters. I seen too many of them sink away.

Early access is different, if it functions well enough to be called a game im happy with it. I seen Deep Rock Galactic and Starbound leaving early access and i just dont buy anything what doesnt have playable amount of content.

 

[moses221]

As far as I'm concerned this is an indication of the lie and duplicity of your entire post. ANYONE who read your original post referring to Joel as "a house flipper" grokked that you meant it in a derogatory way. There is no chance your full intent was lost through text. You clearly were saying that game design was out of Joel's element because he was a house flipper and not a real game developer. Trying to back pedal now and say that in that context you meant it as a sign of respect is an insult to the intelligence of everyone who is reading this thread. The same is true of your use of the comment section of the kickstarter page. There are not thousands demanding refunds. There ARE thousands wondering what's going on and most comments are from 4 or more years ago. Several said they have reported TFP to Kickstarter for fraud and invoked their right to a refund of their pledge and guess why nothing has ever come of it? Because those people are wrong and so are you. TFP can easily show that they have been in constant development. There has never been a period of time where someone can point to abandonment of the game or an intent to not finish. If some of those people did open a law suit against TFP for fraud they would lose big. 

Many of those comments were from when the console edition came out and they were upset about that. It's fine that they were upset that a finished console version was released before they got a finished PC version from their pledge but there is no violation of the kickstarter agreement that was made. TFP didn't even cease development on the PC version while the console port was being made because they partnered with Telltale who took care of that side of things. Then there are a whole bunch of posts of people who are just clearly ignorant that they could have been playing the game all along. They seem to not understand that their pledge gave them a key that allowed them to play the game while waiting for the final version and they seem to be sitting around just waiting for their key to arrive for the final version. I can attest that all keys were sent out back in 2013 to enable anyone who pledged access to the game. Furthermore, a follow-up email went out once the game went to Steam with instructions for converting their kickstarter key into a Steam key. I personally help 1-2 people per week still today in converting their old keys into a Steam key so they can play the game. Many of them admit remembering having received that email 7 years ago but not doing anything about it until now and are worried because they no longer have those emails. But they all get their keys because they are in our system and as soon as I do a search and confirm their identity, they get the key they were promised which they could have had these past 7 years if they had done something about it. What's more, I have never gotten a reply from someone I helped get their promised key that was not congratulator and happy with the obvious progress the game has made since they pledged. It is obvious to anyone who backed this game and has followed development that the game has made great progress, is a labor of love,  will not be abandoned, and exceeds the original expectations in every possible way.

How dare you bring data into an emotional argument?  Although technically, you did not present data with which we could run a statistical analysis.  It's anecdotal evidence.

Sarcasm aside, time for full disclosure: I have not played since Alpha 16.  I played around in A17, then life got busy and when I had time to game, I went back to Civ IV (still love that game.  Fall from Heaven and Fall Further are my go to mods, for those interested).  I tried A18, but my computer is wonky.  I did not have enough disposable income to remedy that until recently and built my own and I can say I look very forward to playing again.  I imagine I will play the first couple hours in cheat mode, hovering in the air and checking out the new menus and skill systems, etc.

I have also not been on the boards much because I was tired of seeing the same old complaints repeated by the same people constantly.  This is not directed at anyone in this particular thread because I have not seen a lot of posts from users here.  Like, I get that a person lamenting that Learning By Doing got excised from the game, but citing it once is a critique.   Repeating it over and over again when we have all been informed that is not coming back is no longer a critique; it's whining.  

@alphaomega I get the sense from your posts in this thread that you aren't liking the way the game is going; however, your analogy is flawed within its own parameters.  Inferring your preferences from the game from your post, a far more accurate analogy would be:

year 1 Bowie makes a barebones album with some vocals and a guitar track

year 3-4 Bowie makes the best rock album of all time (for the record, the best rock album of all time is The Rolling Stones Exile on Main street)

year 5 Bowie removes the drumtrack and tinkers with the bassline

Every year after that, Bowie removes things and now its dubstep

In fact, a more apt analogy would be Star Wars Episode IV.  Loved the movie, but then Lucas had to keep tinkering until we got that godawful CGI Jabba the Hut crap.  I'll still watch because lightsabers, dudes/dudettes

I understand the changes aren't for everyone.  I get that you can go back and play earlier versions that are your preference.  Just please don't make-up data and statistics without sourcing the material in the form of links to the data.

One criticism that I will never understand is why so many users are in a hurry for the game to go Gold.  I like getting new updates of the game with some regularity and it having a new feel.  I am in no hurry for Gold.

 

[Roland]

One criticism that I will never understand is why so many users are in a hurry for the game to go Gold.  I like getting new updates of the game with some regularity and it having a new feel.  I am in no hurry for Gold.

With absolutely no references or sources in the form of links to the data to back up my following statement....

Most people feel like you do and the very few people who complain now about the long development cycle will also be the most vocal complainers about lack of updates once the game is finished. I would complain about the long development cycle myself if the developers weren't so obviously and continuously involved and working. The game is busily being developed. It is not languishing as abandoned vaporware and no word from the developers about current projects towards getting it done. IMO, complaining about the ongoing updates and work as if the game has been abandoned and the developers have run off with everyone's money is just a ridiculous stance to take. It's almost as ridiculous as trying to paint the game that will be releasing to Gold in the future is anything close to what would have released back in May 2014...

 

[JaxTeller718]

This is key. @AlphaOmega feels that the quality of gameplay and his experience with the game has not been worth the $35 that the pledge cost. Nobody can dispute his own personal experience. However, it is clear from the success and constant upward growth of player base over the last 7 years that @AlphaOmega is really unique in his assessment of the value we have gotten for the money we paid. By far, most people feel they have gotten their money's worth in terms of gameplay and entertainment and the past seven years have not been an odious horrible return on their purchase.

Wait. Does this mean I can demand my money back from Showtime for subscribing to Dexter? They owe me for that damn finale

 

[Roland]

Wait. Does this mean I can demand my money back from Showtime for subscribing to Dexter? They owe me for that damn finale

Only if you also threaten to open a class action lawsuit. That’s the current meta. 

 

[Kandrathe]

There is an old salesman adage: you cant take a feature back once you give it a customer.

1. bring back the auger as a craftable item. I have 50steel tool parts and 100 motor tool parts (or the opposite, can't remember) ... but cant craft a chainsaw or auger.

2. stop having birds slow/stop a motorcycle: really?

3. consider improving stamina loss/regen.

That's your answer to make the game more challenging? you turned the game on its ear and ruined it. I get there are people out there who love ridiculous challenges, but not me. The base game is simply too hard now. Believe it or not, there are a lot of players who like to take it slower.

1. no auger, check ... np ... will mine

2. lose stamina doing everything especially mining, uhh monkey turds, check

3. can't mine fast enough, so can't build ... (collar checking nervous) check

4. get motor cycle built , check

4. blood moon birds stop you on motor cycle no matter what: *sigh* and the monsters run almost as fast a motorcycle: or respawn close to the motorcycle: not sure, don't care.

... if there was at least an auger recipe, or trader joe/josephine sold an auger: no sign after 30 days contrary to release note about augers:

• Auger no longer has a low priority to be for sale at traders
  

(not sure what that even means)

30 hours wasted.

dumping game and waiting for a better patch.

A19 is my first experience.  I feel the game will be a major blockbuster success.  The developers are making choices about what is fun and have to edit out the less fun stuff that takes up space and computer CPU cycles. 

It seems to me the game can be made to be very difficult, but you can easily modify that in settings, or with a little knowledge in tweaking the XML files.  For example, my wife enjoys hunting, but the frequency of game seemed low in the forest biome, and too high in the snow biome.  We were also under constant harassment by leg breaking vultures in the wastelands and desert biomes.  I did a bit of research on how it all works and tuned the game to our liking.   We have one low key game map with no blood moon for more creative play, and one with 7 day moon cycle which is more difficult with more amped up settings for the blood rush. 

Hmmm, augers... that's yer breaking point... well. here's my miners motto...

"This is my auger. There are many like it, but this one is mine.  My auger is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.  Without me, my auger is useless. Without my auger, I am useless. I must use my auger true. I must dig straighter than the zombies who are trying to kill me. I must out dig them before they find me. I will ..."