PC A18.1 (b6) Changes: Mining iron ore yields iron?!?

You guys are truly making me despise your use of the term legacy. Legacy means great. Think about that for a moment. You're using a word that means great to describe things you think are nonsense.
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Definition of legacy. See adjective 2.

They are using a correct definition of the word to mean what it really means. Your contempt has no basis.

 
So lots of people saying they either like this or dislike it, however none explaining why it's been done - unless I missed it in and amongst the posts.
Do we have a reason why? Not a guess, not an assumption but the actual reason why.
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Info from MM: To bring it in line with how other mining products are handled (i.e. lead veins give you lead directly as well, coal veins coal,...) and remove one of two icons/items that basically were the same item.

 
They have stated that excess icons/menu/inventory fillers slow down performance. I assume that this is similar (as well as bringing it in line with the rest).
I am sure that this has nothing to do with what looters do or don't get. You have plenty of other changes which you can use to feed that narrative. This is not one of them.
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Yeah its the icons, NOT the absurdly high textures terrain or the constant addition of new assets for pois. Its the icons. WHICH they INCREASED in size to boot. So either they have NO idea how to optimize or theyre selling you a bridge for 25 bucks. Take your pick.

So glad we got rid of that ONE icon so all thise people can play smoothly again.

 
Motherlode 4 gives 180 iron as reported earlier in the thread.
From me hitting things

Motherlode 5 gives 210 iron

Motherlode 5 gives 100 Lead

and I think it gives 100 each of coal and nitrate. Havent mined those for a week or so.

Previous carry lvl of Iron was 1200 = 6000 scrap
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That is true...forgot that.

 
Yeah its the icons, NOT the absurdly high textures terrain or the constant addition of new assets for pois. Its the icons. WHICH they INCREASED in size to boot. So either they have NO idea how to optimize or theyre selling you a bridge for 25 bucks. Take your pick.
So glad we got rid of that ONE icon so all thise people can play smoothly again.
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Sometimes i think they're bullying us... i don't think they're that incompetent.

Then i advise you to remove all the spaces from the xml, which would increase the performance.

 
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In what world is 7 Days to Die in the same gameplay ballpark as Borderlands, Destiny, and Warframe? This whole "looter shooter" argument is bunk.
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In the world they are moving towards. You do understand how the concept of "future" works right?

 
Just another dumbing down of gameplay that worked the way it was just fine...
Before long it's just gonna be guns and trader quests. Even after almost 2k hours in this game. I haven't even been able to bring myself to load the game up since first week of A18. Makes me incredibly sad.
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The dumbing down started mainly once the console version came out around a15 or once they announced the console version was a thing, at least thats what I noticed.

 
While I didn't mind the legacy system, this makes it more streamlined and more of a QoL-thing. So it's more good than bad in the end. After all, this was made with wood many alphas past, and other resources. So it was a bit strange iron stayed the same.
Follow up Question: Should brass scrapping really let you loose a percentage still?
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Let me ask you this: would you bother carrying around those trophies and such and smelting them in a forge if you could scrap them for 100% of their value in your inventory? You'd probally just scrap them on loot, hell even with the loss I still do that as inventory space is precious. I generally always carry a pile of lead, brass and iron in my inv at all times as I know I am always going to loot or scrap things for those materials. With being able to smelt dukes into brass at a 1 to 1 ratio, brass is no longer any real problem, a t5 trader quest can give 4-5k dukes, thats 4-5k brass, or 2000-2500 casings. My real ammo production problem is now making enough gunpowder, as it takes a long time to make it in large amounts. I play 0 int builds so I don't get the 20% faster craft speed in anything other than just the basic forge. I generally have 2 chem labs constantly churning gunpowder out 24/7 in a18. Assuming I can buy the chem labs or find the schmatics and beakers to make said 2.

- - - Updated - - -

I’m ok with the change. Looking at it top-down, it definitely was pointless. I’m just concerned at how basic mining is becoming. It would be cool if this was to make room for more mining content, perhaps copper and zinc to make brass... but we all know that’s just too in depth for this game.
What I expected to be removed from the game are lead trophies and lead fishing sinkers. There is absolutely no reason to try to hang onto those to maximize smelting gains... lead is just too abundant in the game to even be concerned.
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I instascrap any of those lead or brass things I find in loot, i've done this since I first started back in a10. I got more important things I need those inv slots for that I am willing to take the brass hit. Lead is a joke, I find more lead mines than virtually anything else by my base. In forest biome lead is super common, iron is semi common, nitrate/coal is rare I notice. I generally find 2-3x the amount of lead mines compared to iron.

 
So if we only get the scrap iron, is the ratio the same?1 ore use to smelt into 5 iron. If we use to get, for example, 10 ore from a stone then that would = 50 scrap. Do we now get 50 scrap from a stone or do we still just get 5?

Also we could carry 6,000 ore which would be 30,000 scrap...can we now stack scrap to 30,000 or is it still 6,000?

Asking because I haven't harvested any ores yet in my new game.
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Wrong, Raw iron stacks are 1200, which is 6000 iron. Iron stacks are 6000. its the same, they also kept the ratio the same, motherload 5 gives 42 raw iron which is 210 iron smelted. in a18.1 b6 motherload 5 gives 210 iron, so there is 0 actual iron loss, just a removal of a near pointless extra step. Which brings it in line either every other mineable material.

 
Fair. I agree that "mine up an ore and you must smelt it before its usable" made perfect sense, but "scrapping rocks" never did.
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You can't make a game realistic when it has: zombies, player with the ability to bend metal with their bare hands into pickaxes, axes, sledgehammers, knives etc, workbenches that can auto produce stuff without the player even being anywhere near, I mean that workbench and chem lab doesn't look like it'd have any automation functions to me. Only one I can give you is the forge smelting stuff, as that makes sense, you put in raw mats, its melted down, but it being able to make things without the player physically there throws its realism out the window. Not to mention being able to carry tons of ore, stone etc. Need I continue? I for one am all for QoL things like this, it doesn't hurt the gameplay at all, and brings iron in line with every single other ore.

 
You can't make a game realistic when it has: zombies, player with the ability to bend metal with their bare hands into pickaxes, axes, sledgehammers, knives etc, workbenches that can auto produce stuff without the player even being anywhere near, I mean that workbench and chem lab doesn't look like it'd have any automation functions to me. Only one I can give you is the forge smelting stuff, as that makes sense, you put in raw mats, its melted down, but it being able to make things without the player physically there throws its realism out the window. Not to mention being able to carry tons of ore, stone etc. Need I continue? I for one am all for QoL things like this, it doesn't hurt the gameplay at all, and brings iron in line with every single other ore.
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“Every single other ore”

What about oil shale? I’m curious how they plan to “streamline” that one to “bring it in line” lmao.

Loc

 
“Every single other ore”
What about oil shale? I’m curious how they plan to “streamline” that one to “bring it in line” lmao.

Loc
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How about since you can make crushed sand from stone, and therefore nothing but stone is used when making cement and nothing but stone is used for making concrete, then we can skip several steps and just give concrete when mining stone.

Edit: Oh crap, forgot about clay. We can get rid of that too. Nobody will notice, just like the dirt.

But to answer your question, it's quite easy.

Mining shale gives you gas.

So do breakfast burritos, but we don't have those.

 
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Well what I was doing was mining iron ore... Then an update happened and I came back to the game and I didn't notice it for a bit till I looked at the numbers... Then I noticed that it was iron and not Red Iron Ore as it was before. That's when I realized an update must have happened.

And sure enough (b6) came out 3 hours prior. Then I looked at the numbers of iron I was getting and it was the same...

Red Iron Ore - what we used to mine.

Iron or "Iron in forge" is exactly that - the amount you have in the forge after putting any kind of iron in a forge to smelt/melt it down for use.

"black iron" - iron gained from scrapping items, destroying 'iron' items, etc.

The problem for 'us' - since I am the miner for 9 of us is this... "Everyone" in our group wants iron or steel... With the 5 iron in forge for 1 red iron ore dug up ratio, before it was fine; at times everyone would have to wait their turn... Now, if I smelt this 'new iron' I see the forge ticking the iron down 1 at a time for a 1:1 ratio of "Iron in the forge..." That means I'll have to dump more time into mining for the group... How much more time?!? 4 times as much time since 'we're' not getting that old 5:1 ratio... <- Time! If that ratio is still was still in place then its not a problem but it isn't; its ticking down at a 1:1 ratio for every second. Just as the old 'black iron' used to.

For example - if "I" was able to get say 1000 red iron ore before this change to make 5000 smelted iron in the forge, I've now just lost 4000 that and will only get 1000 smelted iron in the forge... So now "I" have to work 4 times as much. "We" started playing in alpha 16 or so - so I don't know, nor remember about wood changing.

Confirmed: "

) shows what we got previously... 1 Red Iron Ore took 4 seconds to smelt into 5 "Iron in the forge." The video shows both smelting slots used and therefore ticks off at 10 iron in the forge. So either way I'm losing iron I have with this change. Now I don't know about how much time it takes to mine any given amount, but if none of that has changed - and it doesn't seem to have changed... Then again - I'm at the conclusion that I've lost a lot of "iron in the forge!"
Previously:

1 Red Iron Ore = 5 iron in forge

Now:

1 Iron = 1 iron in forge.

Therefore: Red Iron Ore does not = Iron (b6).

Therefore: I have to mine much more to get similar amounts as was previously obtained 'in the forge.' This is what's happened and everyone is going to feel it eventually; especially those that play in groups.

 
It's just sad how much the game is getting "stream lined", ie dumbed down, with each alpha and how they inch their way towards looter shooter status and away from crafting.

 
Well what I was doing was mining iron ore... Then an update happened and I came back to the game and I didn't notice it for a bit till I looked at the numbers... Then I noticed that it was iron and not Red Iron Ore as it was before. That's when I realized an update must have happened. And sure enough (b6) came out 3 hours prior. Then I looked at the numbers of iron I was getting and it was the same...

Red Iron Ore - what we used to mine.

Iron or "Iron in forge" is exactly that - the amount you have in the forge after putting any kind of iron in a forge to smelt/melt it down for use.

"black iron" - iron gained from scrapping items, destroying 'iron' items, etc.

The problem for 'us' - since I am the miner for 9 of us is this... "Everyone" in our group wants iron or steel... With the 5 iron in forge for 1 red iron ore dug up ratio, before it was fine; at times everyone would have to wait their turn... Now, if I smelt this 'new iron' I see the forge ticking the iron down 1 at a time for a 1:1 ratio of "Iron in the forge..." That means I'll have to dump more time into mining for the group... How much more time?!? 4 times as much time since 'we're' not getting that old 5:1 ratio... <- Time! If that ratio is still was still in place then its not a problem but it isn't; its ticking down at a 1:1 ratio for every second. Just as the old 'black iron' used to.

For example - if "I" was able to get say 1000 red iron ore before this change to make 5000 smelted iron in the forge, I've now just lost 4000 that and will only get 1000 smelted iron in the forge... So now "I" have to work 4 times as much. "We" started playing in alpha 16 or so - so I don't know, nor remember about wood changing.

Confirmed: "

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Hate to tell you it does, as the raw iron takes 5s to smelt, and iron is 1s per piece. 5 iron is 5 seconds same as the raw iron that gives 5 in the forge. Its simple math people come on, it takes the same time to smelt 1200 raw iron as it does 6000 scrap iron. 1200x5=6000, 6000x1=6000. Raw iron also stacks to 1200, which when smelted is 6000 iron, which if you notice the iron stacks to 6000 too! so its the same. So there is no loss of mining yeild or time or iron in forge.

 
Hate to tell you it does, as the raw iron takes 5s to smelt, and iron is 1s per piece. 5 iron is 5 seconds same as the raw iron that gives 5 in the forge. Its simple math people come on, it takes the same time to smelt 1200 raw iron as it does 6000 scrap iron. 1200x5=6000, 6000x1=6000. Raw iron also stacks to 1200, which when smelted is 6000 iron, which if you notice the iron stacks to 6000 too! so its the same. So there is no loss of mining yeild or time or iron in forge.
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Even though the numbers are the same it just doesn't feel right. Perhaps raw iron from iron ore blocks is too engrained in our minds (since it's been that way for a very long time) that this change will take time to get used to for long time players. As a builder/miner I can get a sense of satisfaction of getting raw iron. Can't explain it. Getting iron from furniture, cars, metal fences, etc doesn't seem to excite me for some reason.

They probably made this change for performance reasons and won't admit it. Perhaps the way they implemented certain things is not highly optimized and it is too late to undo all those changes. I mean why change now all of a sudden? They should have made this change at the initial release of A18 since we know it is a completely new beast altogether. Timing is everything.

A reasonable explanation would have been good as well instead of referring to previous implementations as 'legacy nonsense.'

Looks like this 'feature' is here to stay so just have to live with it I guess.

 
The problem for 'us' - since I am the miner for 9 of us is this... "Everyone" in our group wants iron or steel... With the 5 iron in forge for 1 red iron ore dug up ratio, before it was fine; at times everyone would have to wait their turn... Now, if I smelt this 'new iron' I see the forge ticking the iron down 1 at a time for a 1:1 ratio of "Iron in the forge..." That means I'll have to dump more time into mining for the group... How much more time?!? 4 times as much time since 'we're' not getting that old 5:1 ratio... <- Time! If that ratio is still was still in place then its not a problem but it isn't; its ticking down at a 1:1 ratio for every second. Just as the old 'black iron' used to.
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I’m pretty sure raw iron ore used to take 5 seconds to make that 5 ore (5:1 ratio) so it was still 1 iron per second. So it should mathematically be the same.

Regardless, the great news is that everyone can contribute iron now.

My response would be...”you all want guns and ammo, I expect more iron in the crate next to the forge than I alone am mining up.”

 
Wrong, Raw iron stacks are 1200, which is 6000 iron. Iron stacks are 6000. its the same, they also kept the ratio the same, motherload 5 gives 42 raw iron which is 210 iron smelted. in a18.1 b6 motherload 5 gives 210 iron, so there is 0 actual iron loss, just a removal of a near pointless extra step. Which brings it in line either every other mineable material.
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If by extra step you're talking about melting the raw iron in the forge then consider melting iron in the forge an extra step as well. You need the forge to make anything useful like iron/steel arrowheads, iron/steel ingots, rebar frames, etc. So placing raw iron in the forge is no different than placing iron in the forge. If you need iron immediately you can always scrap the raw iron (I guess this is the extra step?)

Sure there quite a few recipes that use iron but when you progress in the game you'll be using more of its processed version (ingots) than iron itself (except for possibly junk turret ammo if you go that route).

So the removal of this 'pointless extra step' is not noticeable.

 
Even though the numbers are the same it just doesn't feel right. Perhaps raw iron from iron ore blocks is too engrained in our minds (since it's been that way for a very long time) that this change will take time to get used to for long time players. As a builder/miner I can get a sense of satisfaction of getting raw iron. Can't explain it. Getting iron from furniture, cars, metal fences, etc doesn't seem to excite me for some reason.
They probably made this change for performance reasons and won't admit it. Perhaps the way they implemented certain things is not highly optimized and it is too late to undo all those changes. I mean why change now all of a sudden? They should have made this change at the initial release of A18 since we know it is a completely new beast altogether. Timing is everything.

A reasonable explanation would have been good as well instead of referring to previous implementations as 'legacy nonsense.'

Looks like this 'feature' is here to stay so just have to live with it I guess.
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I have 3286 hours in 7dtd been around since a9-10. Took me all of 30 seconds to get used to it. Then I relized how much more streamlined and better it was. I've been around a while, I actually felt it odd that raw iron stuck around for so long after how the rest of the ore's were. I guess its more a mental thing than anything else and I am just more adaptable and open to changes.

 
If by extra step you're talking about melting the raw iron in the forge then consider melting iron in the forge an extra step as well. You need the forge to make anything useful like iron/steel arrowheads, iron/steel ingots, rebar frames, etc. So placing raw iron in the forge is no different than placing iron in the forge. If you need iron immediately you can always scrap the raw iron (I guess this is the extra step?)
Sure there quite a few recipes that use iron but when you progress in the game you'll be using more of its processed version (ingots) than iron itself (except for possibly junk turret ammo if you go that route).

So the removal of this 'pointless extra step' is not noticeable.
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Say you wanna upgrade your base, it takes iron to do so, you have raw iron, you can scrap it taking a bunch of time and losing 25% of the value of it, or put it in the forge spending a ton of time to melt it down then have the forge spit it back out which takes even more time. Or you can have it how a18.1 b6 is, and just get the base iron from iron ore nodes which you can then use right away to upgrade the base or to melt down. Thats the pointless extra step I was talking about. The time wasted to scrap or smelt and have the forge puke the iron back out so you don't take a loss. Sure you could do it in a workbench the scrapping thing, but its still going to waste time you could be using to upgrade it and doing other things.

 
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