PC A17 XP focus

[Jackelmyer]

There's been a lot of people who've asked "why are people so focused on xp?".

There's been a lot of talk on Gating.

My thoughts are, not focusing on XP and levels as many have suggested, is that, without xp and level racing, the game is more fun. Though... The gating system kinda makes it almost a requirement to focus on it.

For me, I felt like I had to get to Iron. I needed a Hoe, which RNG didn't provide. I needed farming, I was borderline starving all the time. My Max Stam consistently hovered between 50 and 80 for my entire first 7 days. Which.. was really an uncomfortable game play feel for me. So... I was compelled to rush to fix my food problem. I was also compelled to fix my stamina issue.

For me that required about 20 levels bare minimum to get a little comfortable with how my character functioned in the world. While on Red Tea every time I did anything stamina heavy. Mining/harvesting wood or searching a POI and fighting zombies.

I feel like there's a desire to have our game play progress through "ages" so to speak. Stone Age, Iron Age, Steel Age, etc... Which I actually like.

However... Max Stam, Food, and Skill gates are all opposing this in my experience.

Personally, I would like to see a Stone Hoe and an Iron Hoe. Let both prep the ground and use attack to harvest. Where Iron returns +1 harvest on attack.

Or...

Stone hoe does standard ground prep. Iron Hoe does fertilized ground prep, and is required for mutated seeds. Which I really don't know what mutated seeds even do yet, but I'm looking to maintain the benefit of the Iron Hoe.

To me... walla... I can run a stone age and not really be hell bent on an Iron Age. I can start working out my food issues with crop. I can bring my skill requirements down to more like 10-15 levels as opposed to 20+ levels to get comfortable. And I can now put more focus on my trade skills and base survival skills as opposed to charging down this Iron tool path that seems to be required now.

Just my thoughts. meh.

 

[asmosnuts]

Why are people so obsessed with racing to iron? Initial game is now focused where it should be, food/water/safety first. You loot/cobble together what tools/armour/weapons you can find until you are in a position to do better. RNG can greatly help/hinder this, lack of food/animals in start area forces you to risk looting to stay alive.

The game and you progress at sufficient pace to overcome initial problems in a few days and the challenge is so much better than having a base and everything you need within a week. The game needs struggle to achieve these things or it leads to the "bored by day 21" posts.

Gating is what it is, any mechanism to slow progress is going to bring complaints as is going back to being "too easy". People are too used to getting all they need too early and lack of challenge in later game. Balance is never going to be perfect, but they are trying!

 

[iejen]

I also want a stone hoe. But the hoe should be the only item to harvest crops. And the stone one should break every 5 crops :fat:

So it will give you a reason to invest in an iron one (ex. 20crops) and steel one (50 crops).

 

[Katitof]

The best part about people trying to poweer level because they want something asap is, they do powerlevel and then suddenly wake up, when they realize they have gamestage 50 and gear and supplies for gamestage 10, then they start complaining about "difficulty spike".

Specific tools being more rare in early game/drops only is also a good thing.

The very moment you can get a hoe, ALL of your food problems are gone, just like that, so no, its not just "ages", its reliable access to specific resources too.

 

[Gazz]

@Katitof

And that is "why gating".

We had plenty of variations on the table.

Including not being able to craft seeds at all but only finding them in loot and such.

...which would again have led to quivering lower lips and all that.

 

[Kalarro]

I find the hoe "gating" totally right. It's true that once you have one, or not too long after, your food rpoblems are gone. But I also think that this is how it should be.

 

[Benjiro]

@Katitof
And that is "why gating".

We had plenty of variations on the table.

Including not being able to craft seeds at all but only finding them in loot and such.

...which would again have led to quivering lower lips and all that.

The issue is balance and not gating Gazz...

Traders already unbalance the game because it gives you access to over powered weapons and tools early game.

Skill gates only delay the actual crafting of people but loot simply solves that issues. So it makes crafting less fun.

The real issue is simply tools, weapons etc are now over powered relative to the time spend, because of loot and traders.

In my personal opinion, removing RNG books to learn skills, to make tools simply reduced the gameplay to XP hunting, so then you need gates again. You know several other games solved part of the progression issues a long time ago.

Solution:

Subanutica solved you from getting overpowered from the start by:

* Place more expensive loot away from the starting position of the player and need to be researched by finding multiple items.

* This expensive loot is in more hostile biomes.

* You are limited by your air to get to that loot.

* This important loot requires resources you can only find in specific areas.

This same system can easily be implemented into 7D2D as following:

* Loot around your starting area is limited to basic items

* The farther away you travel from your starting area, the more zombies and higher level hostiles you encounter.

* The farther away you travel, the more you step into radiated zones. This requires protection gear / anti rad tool etc. Seeing as the developers love fallout gameplay, this is a pure book out of that game. Add iodine tablets, rad level etc ...

* Specific resources ( lithium for batteries, etc ) are to be found in specific areas.

* You need to research how to craft these iron or steel or mechanical tools by getting several pieces ( yay, sounds almost like the old gun system ). See Subnautica, Rust, ...

* Food ingredients / seeds have a meaning and you need to travel to get them.

* To craft or research specific items, you need specific tools or workbenches.

The trader only supplies basic trading goods. Resources, food, ... some rare resources but at very expensive prices.

And guess what, you do not need a lot of skill gates anymore ( for Intelligence / harvesting etc because distance solve this ) ... This solve a lot of the issues that 7D2D faces now. And it allows the game to expand to higher level gear / loots ( mechanical / powered tools etc ).

It gives the player more motivation to explore the lands but this also means that the 7D2D needs to be less generic, more unique areas etc.

 

[LuckyStar]

...which would again have led to quivering lower lips and all that.

Haha since when have we ever done that?

 

[Feycat]

I dunno, I find the xp/gating pretty perfectly balanced at this point. My only problem is how late steel comes, but meh. It's fine.

 

[meganoth]

There's been a lot of people who've asked "why are people so focused on xp?".
There's been a lot of talk on Gating.

My thoughts are, not focusing on XP and levels as many have suggested, is that, without xp and level racing, the game is more fun. Though... The gating system kinda makes it almost a requirement to focus on it.

For me, I felt like I had to get to Iron. I needed a Hoe, which RNG didn't provide. I needed farming, I was borderline starving all the time. My Max Stam consistently hovered between 50 and 80 for my entire first 7 days. Which.. was really an uncomfortable game play feel for me. So... I was compelled to rush to fix my food problem. I was also compelled to fix my stamina issue.

.

The game gives you a lot more possibilities to get food in the beginning:

* Buy food at trader or trade machines.

* Hunt animals (you have to go into new areas to find them).

* Get eggs from a nearly infinite supply of nests.

* Raid kitchens.

* Raid gardens around farms

* Perk up Metabolism.

* Always get the air drop.

* Get buried loot quests from the trader.

All of that helps if RNG makes your game a little different this time. Do you really want every game to start the same, with the same challenges and solutions ready? Don't you want some variation from time to time? A different challenge than the last time?

By the way: I found out that you can plant seeds into the tilled ground at gardens like you find around farms or some buildings. Didn't check if the seeds really grow (and regrow). But if yes, you can already make a garden without a hoe !!!!!!

EDIT: Checked it fully now and yes, the seeds grow and regrow in the already tilled grounds of such gardens. I know of at least two pois with already tilled ground now. Note that the bigger potato, blueberry or corn fields often found in cities do not have tilled ground.