PC A17 How Long Would You Wait For A Pre-Generated Map to Build?

[n2n1]

If I'm starting a serious walkthrough then I'm ready to wait 1-2 hours.

In addition, do that in the menu-options can set the size of the generation....

...what's the problem ?

 

[eidobunny]

I feel like this question isn't very well worded because you're going to get results for "how long would you wait" and also results for "how big do you want the map to be"

I would be willing to wait longer but I also want a smaller map.

 

[Druga Runda]

I would easily wait an hour, but would love an option which takes 24 hrs, if it's materially improved.

No more than 24hrs though.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

OR we could play on small maps while we wait for them to make them larger....

OR we could NOT play on smaller maps and completly ruin everything multiplayer related and simply give us the option (with a warning) to have bigger maps.

Ill gladly lose a minibike once a week if I can go 10 kilometres away from the center.

Look this isn't really all that complicated. Its not like there is some sort of code that says "I will make your game stable but EVERYTHING bigger then now will crash the game"

Simple:

"Worldmap size: small (recommended) 8x8

medium 12x12 (previos alpha)

large (everything above medium might cause bugs and glitches and is not officially supported in this alpha) >12x>12"

Done. Everyone is happy, multiplayer isn't harmed and TFPs aren'T accountable for any bugs that occur.

 

[Cadamier]

So... I'm not entirely clear on anything here! I just love confusion and it's reigning supreme for me at the moment! YAY!

So... What is being said is that it maybe possible to have a large map at the cost of waiting and have it pregenerate the map before you jump in and play?

Y'all killing me now!

It would be nice to be able to pregen a map on a server before hand!!! I or 'we' would wait a long time for that especially on a server! With a map at 20k - "we - in theory - could load a map of New York City!" That's what I'm talking about... But in reality I only meant 'parts of a city'

Washington DC could be done on many sizes, but a pregenerated map that would load fast would be a good thing! Increase the number to say like 5 or up to 10 pregen maps... There we go!!!

But yes - the point has been made that 'many new players' will not want to wait a long time and I'd say if you're nearing 5 minutes - that's pushing their limits HARD!

@Roland: I have looked for that command to pregen/display the map but can't find it

I do like Brian9824's idea:

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?86081-A17-How-Long-Would-You-Wait-For-A-Pre-Generated-Map-to-Build&p=833879&viewfull=1#post833879

But on a server with 9 of us it can possibly lag the system since we almost always 'break to investigate' or do recon... Or one goes out to get wood, another goes out to the desert, one to the snow, etc.

 

[Kinyajuu]

I guess I should step in and mention that the entire system is programmed with a Size variable and the code for generation scales.

8k is indeed the baseline as Roland put it. 8k is a good test to optimize as it is just a bit bigger than nav and I want it to take less than 10 minutes.

Generating larger sizes will work, will load, and will play. The variable for this will be exposed when you get a17. I'm doing testing on how long it takes things and putting together a semi-accurate timer so you know how long it's going to take total. The map generation is fully threaded aside from exporting to disk so you will be able to read messages on what is happening and how long is left, it will not lock up the game while generating. For dedi owners it will prevent joining until the map is generated and loaded.

So, 20k obviously takes a very long time to generate, the time goes up exponentially as the total km size does but the only technical limitation would be the hardware generating the map.

The reason we don't just load you in then generate as you go is that when making roads, placing towns, and generating other things; a lot of data has to exist. The map is put together in layers and that's done on a world level. It's not something that can be skipped around and is slower when done in such a manner. Now rwg maps run as fast as navezgane as far as chunk load times and that is something we've wanted for a long time. No special code during run time for random maps is a good thing.

The depth of editing that can be done to a randomly generated map after the fact now is awesome. You can change player spawns, move POIs, add new pois, add new roads, remove roads, edit the height map, etc. All things in rwg are accessible in the world folder just like with nav.

I wouldn't take away the ability to have large maps, that's something I also love. RWG is my baby after all. Don't panic and rest well in the fact that you won't be hard limited to 8k and that I've actually added more moddability with this change.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

I wouldn't take away the ability to have large maps, that's something I also love. RWG is my baby after all. Don't panic and rest well in the fact that you won't be hard limited to 8k and that I've actually added more moddability with this change.

I love you. You da man!

I was sweating in fear of A17 not only pretty much removing gunprogression (lets see how that turns out) and the nonsensicle attachment non detachment idea (which also has been partially discredited at least as far as "looking into it) but now also smaller maps.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I don't know if you play multiplayer... if you know (or have read the comments) that large maps are an absolute must in multiplayer for the world to regenerate AND giving everyone enough space and their own traders.

I repeat myself but: THANKS <3

 

[Pizzalicious]

Will the options above 8x8 force the server into the modded section on MP however since it's now an option?

 

[Kinyajuu]

Will the options above 8x8 force the server into the modded section on MP however since it's now an option?

It's not a game option per se, it's a generation option. The size variable is not tied to server stuff in that manner. Now if it's using custom pois it will still go to modded.

 

[Brian9824]

I guess I should step in and mention that the entire system is programmed with a Size variable and the code for generation scales.
8k is indeed the baseline as Roland put it. 8k is a good test to optimize as it is just a bit bigger than nav and I want it to take less than 10 minutes.

Generating larger sizes will work, will load, and will play. The variable for this will be exposed when you get a17. I'm doing testing on how long it takes things and putting together a semi-accurate timer so you know how long it's going to take total. The map generation is fully threaded aside from exporting to disk so you will be able to read messages on what is happening and how long is left, it will not lock up the game while generating. For dedi owners it will prevent joining until the map is generated and loaded.

So, 20k obviously takes a very long time to generate, the time goes up exponentially as the total km size does but the only technical limitation would be the hardware generating the map.

The reason we don't just load you in then generate as you go is that when making roads, placing towns, and generating other things; a lot of data has to exist. The map is put together in layers and that's done on a world level. It's not something that can be skipped around and is slower when done in such a manner. Now rwg maps run as fast as navezgane as far as chunk load times and that is something we've wanted for a long time. No special code during run time for random maps is a good thing.

The depth of editing that can be done to a randomly generated map after the fact now is awesome. You can change player spawns, move POIs, add new pois, add new roads, remove roads, edit the height map, etc. All things in rwg are accessible in the world folder just like with nav.

I wouldn't take away the ability to have large maps, that's something I also love. RWG is my baby after all. Don't panic and rest well in the fact that you won't be hard limited to 8k and that I've actually added more moddability with this change.

Do you ever see that variable being definable from within the game versus the xml? I think 99% of the issues people have is wanting to make the map size bigger WITHOUT making the server modded, and if it had say a dropdown for 8,12,16,20, etc as the options that would be perfect I think for nearly everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not a game option per se, it's a generation option. The size variable is not tied to server stuff in that manner. Now if it's using custom pois it will still go to modded.

So does that mean if you modify the size in the xml it won't flag your map as modded?

 

[Pizzalicious]

It's not a game option per se, it's a generation option. The size variable is not tied to server stuff in that manner. Now if it's using custom pois it will still go to modded.

If the server is Vanilla using nothing but what you guys designed except for server size and lets say we went back to current 10x10 would it push to modded is basically what Im getting at?

 

[Kinyajuu]

If the server is Vanilla using nothing but what you guys designed except for server size and lets say we went back to current 10x10 would it push to modded is basically what Im getting at?

No, it will not.

 

[Kinyajuu]

Do you ever see that variable being definable from within the game versus the xml? I think 99% of the issues people have is wanting to make the map size bigger WITHOUT making the server modded, and if it had say a dropdown for 8,12,16,20, etc as the options that would be perfect I think for nearly everyone.
- - - Updated - - -

So does that mean if you modify the size in the xml it won't flag your map as modded?

There will not be an XML size as such. There will be one setting that won't affect the "modded" aspect of the server. It will be a game option that's only viable on newly generating maps. Nothing more, nothing less. After generation, you're loading a map that it spit out, not playing "Random Gen" as it is now.

Random Gen is now a World Map Generator, it's not ran during game time. You are quite simply generating a randomized Navezgane like map then it's automatically loaded up. At that point it's no different than Navezgane.

Also, yes, a dropdown of various sizes was already planned. Default of 8k.

 

[Pizzalicious]

No, it will not.

Thanks Kinyajuu for clearing that up.

 

[PiercedFromWithin]

Details are great to have. Thank Kinyajuu, that should hopefully help some people sleep at night.

 

[eidobunny]

OR we could NOT play on smaller maps and completly ruin everything multiplayer related

I don't know if you play multiplayer... if you know (or have read the comments) that large maps are an absolute must in multiplayer

I'm glad they managed a solution for both of us, but I feel the need to chime in and say I'm really excited for smaller maps for pvp because even with 20-30 people, 16k was just too large to reliably come into contact with other players and find bases to raid. sometimes it would take literal days until I would be able to stumble upon a base worth raiding. so I for one was looking forward to small maps for multiplayer

 

[Jost Amman]

@Kinyajuu: thanks for taking the time to clarify the details of the new RWG, especially considering it's sunday! :worked_till_5am:

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

The depth of editing that can be done to a randomly generated map after the fact now is awesome. You can change player spawns, move POIs, add new pois, add new roads, remove roads, edit the height map, etc. All things in rwg are accessible in the world folder just like with nav.
I wouldn't take away the ability to have large maps, that's something I also love. RWG is my baby after all. Don't panic and rest well in the fact that you won't be hard limited to 8k and that I've actually added more moddability with this change.

I see this and it makes me think 'Custom Maps'. Heck, maybe even a trip to Mars.

You guys are awesome keep it up.

 

[Jedo]

<snipped for space>

This is why the slogan is "In Pimps We Trust."

 

[Guppycur]

Don't panic?

...but...but...

Ok.

(Now I'm out of a job... =) )

Kidding aside, can you elaborate more on HOW one would add new roads?