A New Chapter for The Fun Pimps and 7 Days to Die

[BlackRabbitMsk]

Apparently, I'm missing something. What automation are we talking about? If we break this task down into steps, the clicks, if any, differ only slightly. The player has cans in their backpack—in one case, they need to be placed on the belt, and in the other, they need to be placed in the collector. Then, they need to be removed from the belt or collected in the collector. But the point is that in the first case, the player will complete the final action in 3 seconds, and in the second, in 10 minutes. There's no point in placing the collector at all (there's crafting and resource gathering for all that), and they don't need to go anywhere or collect anything. I'm talking about a real case where I made 50 cans for myself. I simply take them from the forge and fill them from a puddle made with a bucket, spending seconds on it.

The filter is another matter. In this case, it's definitely more profitable, since it skips the boiling step.

But I still honestly don't understand in what universe a case that fills in 10 minutes is better than one that fills in 3 seconds.

 

[theFlu]

But I still honestly don't understand in what universe a case that fills in 10 minutes is better than one that fills in 3 seconds.

In the universe where the stockroom isn't JIT. Where one does prep work, as in, sets up jars to collect before the immediate need, to have them ready when the need arises. In that world the time between the start of the passive gathering and ending doesn't mater at all. If there was a massive active time difference, one case would be the clear winner.

 

[BlackRabbitMsk]

У меня на базе рядом с кострами есть колодец. После того, как я наполню свои стопки кувшинов, я не убираю их обратно в инвентарь. Я просто немного поворачиваюсь вправо и ставлю их прямо в костер, чтобы начать кипятить.

Я бы никогда не стал использовать сборщик росы, пока у меня нет для него фильтра. Но я также не считаю клики. Интересно, каково общее количество кликов при изготовлении сборщика росы по сравнению с постройкой колодца/камина?

I take this as self-evident, but for the sake of clarity, I'll provide a detailed analysis:

First, I'd like to point out something that, in my opinion, breaks the mechanics of collecting water with a Water Collector:

A Dew Collector with mods that increase the speed and volume of water collection is a completely useless workstation, the effect of which is completely replaced by minor player interactions, such as filling jars in a regular puddle.

That is, the player unlocks it at workstation level 16, but the workstation only begins to provide real benefit after reaching level 48 or purchasing a filter from a merchant.

I acknowledge the fact that the ability to use empty jars and refill them has been restored.

So, there's the Dew Collector, which unlocks at workstation level 16. It requires 1:10 to craft and costs a significant amount of resources. Then there are the mods, etc. The block file says:

MinConvertTime <!-- 21600 in-game seconds = 6 in-game hours -->

That is, it takes 15 minutes of real time to completely fill all the slots, assuming a game day is one hour long. The station has 9 output slots and 6 input slots. This means I can place 60 empty cans and receive 18 filled ones. If I don't collect these 18, the collector will stop working. Let's consider a case where I need to fill 50 cans. To do this, I'll wait 15 minutes and collect 18 cans, then another 15 minutes, then another 18, and finally another 12 minutes and the remaining 16. If I delay, the collector will simply stop working. Therefore, to fill 50 cans, I'll need 42 minutes of real time, constantly focusing on collecting already filled cans.

Or...

Click and place the cans on my belt, then collect them all at once in 5 clicks - 15 seconds.

 

[Roland]

But I still honestly don't understand in what universe a case that fills in 10 minutes is better than one that fills in 3 seconds.

The universe of “not you”s. Your argument, word for word, was voiced before the jar change happened. Playtesters who were like me and you made their objections known. Playtesters who were not like you also weighed in.

In the end the designer decided to go with what we have and it is satisfying to some and dissatisfying to others. If it was dissatisfying to the degree that many angry posts were putting pressure on on TFP to change it, they might consider it. But that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a few odd posts here and there with counterpoints also being raised.

I’m against the current design, myself, but can admit that there is no concerted upswell of negativity about it.

 

[BlackRabbitMsk]

The universe of “not you”s. Your argument, word for word, was voiced before the jar change happened. Playtesters who were like me and you made their objections known. Playtesters who were not like you also weighed in.

In the end the designer decided to go with what we have and it is satisfying to some and dissatisfying to others. If it was dissatisfying to the degree that many angry posts were putting pressure on on TFP to change it, they might consider it. But that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a few odd posts here and there with counterpoints also being raised.

I’m against the current design, myself, but can admit that there is no concerted upswell of negativity about it.

But you agree with the thesis I voiced?

Well, regarding the wave of outrage, it usually occurs when a mechanic is blatantly broken or something useful is completely removed.

I think in this case, players simply ignored it. But I can definitely say that on many servers, many players genuinely don't understand why this decision was made.

And finally, perhaps I don't know where to write about this or how to report the problem, or to whom (this was the first and main question of this discussion). What exactly needs to happen for the designers to pay attention to this obvious gap in game balance? I'm not saying this is a critical issue, I'm saying it exists.

As I wrote earlier, the Collector issue is just one of several. I eventually figured out how to implement it more playably and will be able to fix it with a separate mod. It's frustrating that such things exist.

 

[Roland]

And do you really think these are comparable cases and that this is automation?

No. To me, like you, there is no comparison or question as to which method is better. Well/fireplace wins every time handily —at least until you add a filter to the dew collector and then the two methods are pretty comparable and the only choice is aesthetics and preference.

But others see it differently. For some, just having a new slot to put their jars is enough. The people who play with 100% jar return aren’t crafting jars forever. They’re just recycling their used jars through the dew collector and it feels good and natural for them to do so. They felt no jar return was very unnatural so the dew collector needing jars as fuel restores sanity to the universe for them.

Then as Mega and others have pointed out, when you care about clicks(effort) and not at all about time because you aren’t crafting water last minute, the dew collector is less effort. Drop off all your 100% jars and go do fun not-staring-at-water activities right away. You have plenty of water already so the fact that this newest batch won’t be ready until you do a few quests is no big deal.

I don’t agree with that perspective at all but I understand it and can see how they might like the dew collector as it is. The designer of this feature obviously is of their persuasion—viewing the dew collector as a good jar sink and a nice alternative to filling jars from a source.

Personally, I have come to enjoy building a well as part of my base design, crafting jars in my forge, and then filling and boiling them more than I remember enjoying crafting a dew collector and harvesting from them. I like to have at least one of each workstation for aesthetic reasons so I still build a few collector and start using it once I have a filter for it since it’s worth it to me at that point.

I was disappointed in the decision at first but now that I’ve found I enjoy making a well and using it with nearby campfires better anyway, I can’t really muster any anger.

 

[JustBrowsing]

Long time reader first time posting. I think it pretty clear this game will be completely ignored moving forward. Pimps talks about partnership but the real story is Pimps ran out of money and had to sell their property to a more successful studio. Behavior in turn promised to keep Pimps employed through the release of the currently queued Bandit version. After that, Behavior will dump Pimps is a cost cutting move, shelve development on 7D introduce the customer base to their new survival product. Pimps literally ran 7D into the ground with their refusal to support community feedback that was not specifically engineered by their own staff and vision. So, have fun while you can people, Pimps is not a partner, Pimps is being pimped and a few months away from being tossed into the alley behind the real studio... ok, ok, so after the sky has fallen I can say this is completely fiction, a product of a reluctant investor of my time. You see, when it comes to video games, I really don't have much time to invest so I choose them very carefully. I can't tell you how many times i've gone through the "we are partners" mantra with a studio selling out to a rival under the guide of a publisher. For Pimps, this may be a good thing. For the game, it's likely not. While I remain hopeful the game will remain in active development and the product move forward, I don't see how it can when the engine itself is playing catch up to modern UE and such. When I see these sorts of things, my brain instantly remembers all the other cascade of fails that have plagued games when they change hands- creative control be darned. Even Destiny couldn't survive the sell out to Sony with all their promises.

 

[Noxom]

Long time reader first time posting. I think it pretty clear this game will be completely ignored moving forward. Pimps talks about partnership but the real story is Pimps ran out of money and had to sell their property to a more successful studio. Behavior in turn promised to keep Pimps employed through the release of the currently queued Bandit version. After that, Behavior will dump Pimps is a cost cutting move, shelve development on 7D introduce the customer base to their new survival product. Pimps literally ran 7D into the ground with their refusal to support community feedback that was specifically engineered by their own staff and vision. So, have fun while you can people, Pimps is not a partner, Pimps is being pimped and a few months away from being tossed into the alley behind the real studio.

This is some crazy levels of larping, holy cow. Top 100 on Steam, very positive reviews even after being bombed and tens of thousands playing every day. No extra costs for anyone to play.

How people like you convince yourselves that the game is being run into the ground is a total mystery. They do plenty for community feedback, but lord knows what your issue is specifically. It's too bad you can't be clear and constructive about that instead of making an account to post nonsense.

Regardless of what happens to the company, it's not like the game is going to suddenly vanish overnight. Someone will end up owning it and keeping the lights on. Older versions will always be around to play if any actual directional changes happen in the future.

 

[Roland]

Long time reader first time posting. I think it pretty clear this game will be completely ignored moving forward. Pimps talks about partnership but the real story is Pimps ran out of money and had to sell their property to a more successful studio. Behavior in turn promised to keep Pimps employed through the release of the currently queued Bandit version. After that, Behavior will dump Pimps is a cost cutting move, shelve development on 7D introduce the customer base to their new survival product. Pimps literally ran 7D into the ground with their refusal to support community feedback that was specifically engineered by their own staff and vision. So, have fun while you can people, Pimps is not a partner, Pimps is being pimped and a few months away from being tossed into the alley behind the real studio.

Welcome! Hopefully you can get a few more posts typed up before the end.

What you predict is a possibility but I feel more optimistic than you do. Time will tell.

 

[JustBrowsing]

This is some crazy levels of larping, holy cow. Top 100 on Steam, very positive reviews even after being bombed and tens of thousands playing every day. No extra costs for anyone to play.

How people like you convince yourselves that the game is being run into the ground is a total mystery. They do plenty for community feedback, but lord knows what your issue is specifically. It's too bad you can't be clear and constructive about that instead of making an account to post nonsense.

Regardless of what happens to the company, it's not like the game is going to suddenly vanish overnight. Someone will end up owning it and keeping the lights on. Older versions will always be around to play if any actual directional changes happen in the future.

It's not about vanishing over night. It's about whether I should waste my valuable time moving forward. Should I go down with a sinking ship? Nobody wants to go down with the ship. Most people just want to play a relevant title the stays up to date.

 

[BlackRabbitMsk]

It's not about vanishing over night. It's about whether I should waste my valuable time moving forward. Should I go down with a sinking ship? Nobody wants to go down with the ship. Most people just want to play a relevant title the stays up to date.

Does the game obligate you to anything?
"Nobody wants to go down with the ship"—what's the point? Play and have fun.

Honestly, I don't fully understand what this whole monologue is about. Overall, the current situation is quite clear and logical. Development requires resources in the previous format, and they are clearly insufficient. Collaborating with a strong studio should help with this. Would it really be better to truly fade away, but with an original team and without any partners? For many years, I wondered how this whole thing is developing, and now I at least understand that the game can continue to develop in this form for a long time. Certainly not for six months or a year.

Pimps talks about partnership but the real story is Pimps ran out of money and had to sell their property to a more successful studio.

Is there any proof?

 

[JustBrowsing]

This is some crazy levels of larping, holy cow. Top 100 on Steam, very positive reviews even after being bombed and tens of thousands playing every day. No extra costs for anyone to play.

How people like you convince yourselves that the game is being run into the ground is a total mystery. They do plenty for community feedback, but lord knows what your issue is specifically. It's too bad you can't be clear and constructive about that instead of making an account to post nonsense.

Regardless of what happens to the company, it's not like the game is going to suddenly vanish overnight. Someone will end up owning it and keeping the lights on. Older versions will always be around to play if any actual directional changes happen in the future.

In terms of being clear. I don't know how I can be any more clear on the subject. I don't have many issues "specifically" with Pimps outside the game itself, other than the use of "Partner" when the real story is an "acquisition." Inside the game my issue starts with the failure of Pimps to acknowledge the early access / Kickstarter roots of the game and instead of providing options to accommodate more users, they almost always ignore the broader community wants in favor of their specifically proctored flavor of the week which often contradicts their flavor of the previous week and will likely contradict their flavor of next week. So, in short, just a bit too militant for my pleasure. I would feel much better with less doom and gloom had the "Partner" spin not been the keynote from the keynote announcement. I will remain hopeful but this has all the signs of the ship circling the drain.

 

[Noxom]

It's not about vanishing over night. It's about whether I should waste my valuable time moving forward. Should I go down with a sinking ship? Nobody wants to go down with the ship. Most people just want to play a relevant title the stays up to date.

It's a video game, it's not like you're a part of the company that has real risk involved. There are thousands of other games out there. If you're time is so valuable then maybe you should think twice about playing games.

How do you know the ship is sinking? Hallucinating water inside the ship doesn't mean it's sinking. Everything you mentioned is purely speculative and illogical to boot.

 

[Noxom]

In terms of being clear. I don't know how I can be any more clear on the subject. I don't have many issues "specifically" with Pimps outside the game itself, other than the use of "Partner" when the real story is an "acquisition." Inside the game my issue starts with the failure of Pimps to acknowledge the early access / Kickstarter roots of the game and instead of providing options to accommodate more users, they almost always ignore the broader community wants in favor of their specifically proctored flavor of the week which often contradicts their flavor of the previous week and will likely contradict their flavor of next week. So, in short, just a bit too militant for my pleasure. I would feel much better with less doom and gloom had the "Partner" spin not been the keynote from the keynote announcement. I will remain hopeful but this has all the signs of the ship circling the drain.

Do you know it's an acquisition for sure? Where are you getting your information?

The kickstarter roots are represented just fine in the current game. Go back and read the main points that the kickstarter presented, it's still the same exact kind of game they were trying to make. Why don't you acknowledge whatever roots you think they haven't represented? The broader community seems to love the game by all objective means, so why do you think they've ignored them?

What flavor of the week nonsense are you talking about? There's a ton of options for gameplay, including the next patch which will have many more options. On top of the game being very moddable, it's not like players have no choices of how they want to enjoy the game. You're trying way too hard to find issues where there aren't any.

 

[JustBrowsing]

It's a video game, it's not like you're a part of the company that has real risk involved. There are thousands of other games out there. If you're time is so valuable then maybe you should think twice about playing games.

How do you know the ship is sinking? Hallucinating water inside the ship doesn't mean it's sinking. Everything you mentioned is purely speculative and illogical to boot.

You use fallacy to point out fallacy. Is that 2 negatives = a positive thing? Beyond that, "...if your time is so valuable then maybe you should think twice about playing video games." As a developer my time is valuable when it comes to investing myself in mod dev and as a player I do my best to experience the games I develop mods for.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 2:37 PM

Do you know it's an acquisition for sure? Where are you getting your information?

The kickstarter roots are represented just fine in the current game. Go back and read the main points that the kickstarter presented, it's still the same exact kind of game they were trying to make. Why don't you acknowledge whatever roots you think they haven't represented? The broader community seems to love the game by all objective means, so why do you think they've ignored them?

What flavor of the week nonsense are you talking about? There's a ton of options for gameplay, including the next patch which will have many more options. On top of the game being very moddable, it's not like players have no choices of how they want to enjoy the game. You're trying way too hard to find issues where there aren't any.

blah blah blah. what is wrong with you? Hit a nerve?

 

[BlackRabbitMsk]

Welcome! Hopefully you can get a few more posts typed up before the end.

I'd like to clarify one thing. As far as I know, large projects have game designers (or several, if the project is large). How does this work here at TFP? Is there a specific person in charge, or is there a focus group, or several designers? It's just that, out of habit, everyone knows Faatal. But if I understand correctly, he's the manager and directly involved in development (I could be wrong, of course). So who's responsible for the design of the game itself?

 

[Noxom]

You use fallacy to point out fallacy. Is that 2 negatives = a positive thing? Beyond that, "...if your time is so valuable then maybe you should think twice about playing video games." As a developer my time is valuable when it comes to investing myself in mod dev and as a player I do my best to experience the games I develop mods for.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 2:37 PM

blah blah blah. what is wrong with you? Hit a nerve?

Well that sure didn't take long. I asked several questions and you answered none of them. Enjoy the larping friendo.

 

[JustBrowsing]

Well that sure didn't take long. I asked several questions and you answered none of them. Enjoy the larping friendo.

Your questions were rhetorical at best, condescending and misguided in practice. You questioned the obvious. Everyone knows the sky is blue, just like everyone knows its Pimp way or the highway. But if I must be specific:

MONTRÉAL, March 24, 2026 /CNW/ - Behaviour Interactive, the largest Canadian gaming studio, is excited to announce its acquisition of The Fun Pimps, creators of 7 Days to Die.

BEHAVIOUR INTERACTIVE PARTNERS WITH THE FUN PIMPS, CREATORS OF 7 DAYS TO DIE

/CNW/ - Behaviour Interactive, the largest Canadian gaming studio, is excited to announce its acquisition of The Fun Pimps, creators of 7 Days to Die. Since...

www.newswire.ca

In terms of community discourse you can start here.

You can return to your midterms now.

 

[Roland]

I will remain hopeful but this has all the signs of the ship circling the drain

You mean "become" hopeful. To remain hopeful you have to already be hopeful and your small selection of posts don't exactly radiate hope...haha

I'd like to clarify one thing. As far as I know, large projects have game designers (or several, if the project is large). How does this work here at TFP? Is there a specific person in charge, or is there a focus group, or several designers? It's just that, out of habit, everyone knows Faatal. But if I understand correctly, he's the manager and directly involved in development (I could be wrong, of course). So who's responsible for the design of the game itself?

Faatal is one of the senior programmers. The designers who have final say are Joel and Rick Huenink. Most decisions are highly collaborative and team decided but there are times when a final say has to be given and when Joel gives it, it is final unless his brother knuckle rubs him into submission. As for focus groups, we are the focus group. They make adjustments based on our feedback and have done so many times in the past. The imminent update is the culmination of many many years of community feedback.

Now that the merger has happened, ultimate say will be the Behavior Execs. Whether they will micromanage or let TFP be TFP remains to be seen. So far, there hasn't been a peep of anything from behavior in terms of direction. To Grandpa Minion's utter dismay, nobody has come to overrule the Hueninks on how much emphasis should be spent on PvP, for example.

 

[JustBrowsing]

You mean "become" hopeful. To remain hopeful you have to already be hopeful and your small selection of posts don't exactly radiate hope...haha


You are correct. I don't think I am radiating hope and I apologize for being the "sky is falling" voice. Just hate to see a these sorts of "buyouts" in this space. History does not always speak positively about the outcome when it comes to them. I do remain hopeful, just really want to see a real roadmap or some utterance from Behavior about intentions after the imminent updates are rolled out. I want to know what they ADD to the queue, not what they finish. You don't take on the responsibility of a game studio and their major project without having a game plan. Just want to see the plan. We are approaching 3 months and details are not abundant and so far, the only thing I've heard, I've heard before with predictable results. That said, I will do my best to remain positive