PC 12 years and THIS is the big 1.0?

Riamus said:
They will never please everyone and stop there is no reason to try.  They will make the game how they want it and we, as players, have no "right" to have the game made the way we want.  We can make suggestions.  We can complain.  We can offer feedback.  But I'm the end, they will choose what works best from their end.  Developers don't ever have to listen to their players.  Many do, but usually only in very limited ways.  But they don't have to and they don't need to not do something just because some people don't want it.  Especially when some people will want it.
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I don't know man, developers like Hello Games, they listen to their player base and they make gaming headlines specifically for that. Biggest comeback in gaming history is because they stayed dedicated to what they'd offer and listened to what gamers wanted even after they delivered. Look at escape from tarkov. $250 so you can hold more stuff and play offline. Lucrative Scam right there but it's a legit game company "doing what they thinks best"

 
So as long as we're bring water gate up again..  I don't think dew collectors are great or anything.. but I do think they're better than jar management.. And lets not forget running 500 jars of water to a pond, filling them, and being good on water for the next month- Is this the engaging gameplay you're pushing for to return?

 
Ncredible1201 said:
That's not survivalist though. In real life depending on where you live (or location on the map) can go down the road to a little river and collect as much water as you can carry and bring it home and boil then let cool. If you need food, yeah that's gonna be harder just like real life. You'll need to set traps or wait in a tree for a deer. What you just said is true, water is easier to collect than food, why make it harder for no reason except "so I have another thing to worry about"?
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It is unrealistic, sure. But what is "survivalist" exactly? Some survival games try to be very realistic but others don't care much about simulating reality. Consider this game to be one of the "don't care" survival games

 
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Ncredible1201 said:
I don't know man, developers like Hello Games, they listen to their player base and they make gaming headlines specifically for that. Biggest comeback in gaming history is because they stayed dedicated to what they'd offer and listened to what gamers wanted even after they delivered. Look at escape from tarkov. $250 so you can hold more stuff and play offline. Lucrative Scam right there but it's a legit game company "doing what they thinks best"
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Hello Games also had the biggest @%$#storm in gaming history because they did not deliver what they promised in a few talkshows. In effect they could have either closed their shop and go to the Bahamas (as nobody would ever have bought a game from them again) or try to make good on the promises they already made and put a cherry on top. Sony as their publisher probably wasn't too pleased about that reception either and may have pushed for doing "reparation". It was evident that apart from that initial storm Hello Games had a winner of a game in their hands that could still make a lot of money.

This is not meant critical, they showed that they wanted to correct their mistake, and they did. But it also was the only sensible way forward for them.

 
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Mister Forgash said:
So as long as we're bring water gate up again..  I don't think dew collectors are great or anything.. but I do think they're better than jar management.. And lets not forget running 500 jars of water to a pond, filling them, and being good on water for the next month- Is this the engaging gameplay you're pushing for to return?
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There's ways the water meta could have been improved, but you're here talking like having water collectable from water sources is somehow less engaging than having nonsensical water generator buildings running in your base as another heat source to draw screamers.

 
Verdigriss said:
There's ways the water meta could have been improved, but you're here talking like having water collectable from water sources is somehow less engaging than having nonsensical water generator buildings running in your base as another heat source to draw screamers.
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Nonsensical or not, before the change water was regularily thrown away by me and my friends if found in loot, because it often wasn't even worth a single inventory slot. Its worth was practically zero.

Now we generally keep water we find in loot like we do with other basic stuff. 

This is very simple. In a game an item with no value can either be removed entirely (ask other game developers, they will do that as well) or changed so it has a worth to players.

 
Mister Forgash said:
Is this the engaging gameplay you're pushing for to return?
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I wouldn't say "engaging" is a measure that was really improved.. "gather 500 jars" vs "gather 500 polymers" and you're sorted. The latter just introduced some daily micromanagement with a silly contraption that is mostly a pipe dream of the hippies in reality.

Dew collector; if the area you're in has sufficient moisture to allow you to gather 'dew' in any practicable quantity, it also has enough moisture for, you know, rain fall, which forms rivers and lakes, where the H2O is easily scooped into a container. There are some kickstarter projects trying to "mechanize" it, but condensing water from air (at any temperature) produces craptons of heat you have to get rid of for the process to continue. Thus, you'll need an external power source, and at that point you're about as well off straight up distilling sea water (or using any of the other, more efficient purification methods).

 
Verdigriss said:
There's ways the water meta could have been improved, but you're here talking like having water collectable from water sources is somehow less engaging than having nonsensical water generator buildings running in your base as another heat source to draw screamers.
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As a matter of fact, running to a pond or river with a few hundred jars, and collecting one third of the water you'll need for the rest of the playthrough is objectively less engaging than crafting a station that generates water daily, encouraging you to visit it frequently, while meanwhile generating attention on the heatmap. Again, I don't think dew collectors are the holy grail or water management, but they are better than what was in place. I'd be delighted if we had something better still, but .. Really.. how many jars does it take until water is made irrelevant?  50? 100? 200?  ... Few enough that you can craft them all overnight and have water solved shortly after you have a forge and a shovel?

 
Ncredible1201 said:
I don't know man, developers like Hello Games, they listen to their player base and they make gaming headlines specifically for that. Biggest comeback in gaming history is because they stayed dedicated to what they'd offer and listened to what gamers wanted even after they delivered. Look at escape from tarkov. $250 so you can hold more stuff and play offline. Lucrative Scam right there but it's a legit game company "doing what they thinks best"
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And I said that some do.  But even there, I am sure you will find things in their games that some players really don't like.  There is no way to please everyone.  Developers can try if they want.  In many cases, that leads to a generic game that tries to be everything and isn't good at any of it.  Note that I am not saying it always happens that way.  There are always exceptions. 

Many developers don't have early access and open betas so they don't have to listen to complaints when they make changes.  Those who do are stuck with people saying they don't know what they are doing, they don't listen, .... 😅

 
Mister Forgash said:
As a matter of fact, running to a pond or river with a few hundred jars, and collecting one third of the water you'll need for the rest of the playthrough is objectively less engaging than crafting a station that generates water daily, encouraging you to visit it frequently, while meanwhile generating attention on the heatmap. Again, I don't think dew collectors are the holy grail or water management, but they are better than what was in place. I'd be delighted if we had something better still, but .. Really.. how many jars does it take until water is made irrelevant?  50? 100? 200?  ... Few enough that you can craft them all overnight and have water solved shortly after you have a forge and a shovel?
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Water is *supposed* to be a thing you have to hurry to *solve* early in the game.  And your water solution (campfire, cookpot, stash of water jars, water source) is tied to a specific base, which if the zeds overrun it you need to get that set up again.

That creates *progress.*  Getting things done.

Engagement is not chores that you have to grind through over and over again in the game.  That's the *exact opposite* of engagement.  That's not even grind, as grinding gets you permanent benefits.  It's a gameplay mechanic that's less engaging than grinding.  Chores are about the worst thing to put in a game.

Occasionally needing to boil a bunch of water is a survival mechanic.  Checking on my water collector every six hours is a chore.

 
Verdigriss said:
Water is *supposed* to be a thing you have to hurry to *solve* early in the game.  And your water solution (campfire, cookpot, stash of water jars, water source) is tied to a specific base, which if the zeds overrun it you need to get that set up again.

That creates *progress.*  Getting things done.
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So... Similarly You get a campfire, a cook pot.. but in this instance, then you collect a bunch of plastic and smash it all together, and before you know it you've put something together that collects little bits of water.. It's not much, so you probably need more than one.. It's big, clunky, pretty much tied to the spot, and attracts some attention- I suppose in theory, it could even get overrun.. 

This is much like the progress you describe.

I think balance is a large part of this argument as well. Mostly that gathering hundreds of jars, and thus hundreds of water could be done in such a time frame as to utterly trivialize it. (Vast quantities that will satisfy your need for water for your entire playthrough in one or two trips.)

Dew collectors might feel like a chore if you're running 1 or 2  ... but by the time you're brewing up your own glue you'll be running more than that - With mods in them, that's 6 water per day, per collector.. Now, granted, I think it would be nice if they could hold more than 1 day's worth [Maybe? Please? Pimps hear me?], but as cheap as they are, I feel like it's plenty easy to just build a couple extra than to fret about 'oh what if I miss a day'. 

Compared to jars, this requires more time and resources, and puts you at more exposure to screamers.. but maybe water as it used to be, was too cheap and too safe.

 
Ray Garraty said:
The problem is different players have different opinions, so it's technically impossible to satisfy everybody
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The second problem is that some players with a strong opinion think the entire player base thinks exactly like them and it’s a small but somehow powerful and irresistible cabal of very vocal players hypnotizing TFP into listening to them…

 
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To hell with water........

I want the topless stripper RETURNED.........

and I want the Behemoth to be reconsidered!!!

Oh devs....listen to my pleas.....

Added: Oh yeah, I also want Learn by Doing back and the reintroduction of item degradation!!!

 
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