Could we have a different challenge please?

[Tay1372]

I know I'm not the only person who really enjoys playing this game without zombies. For me it's pure survival and, don't laugh too loudly, I really enjoy 'doing up' the houses and building new ones from scratch. I explore and build in all biomes except the Wasteland (I'm too scared to go there because of land mines!).

I was really looking forward to version 2.0 because of the environment changes and so far have been enjoying it. Until I checked out the challenges you need to complete in order to get the biome badges so we can progress from biome to biome. They all have a challenge to kill a certain amount and type of zombies. Which means that players like me won't be able to get the badges.

Right now I've turned off biome progression but that's a shame as I won't be able to find out what it's like.

Could the devs set the badge challenges so the requirements are different depending on if enemy spawning is set to on or off? For example, change the zombie challenge to a different type of challenge if enemy spawning is set to 'off' so players who play without zombies can still get the badges and experience that part of the game. I hope that makes sense.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Could the devs set the badge challenges so the requirements are different depending on if enemy spawning is set to on or off? For example, change the zombie challenge to a different type of challenge if enemy spawning is set to 'off' so players who play without zombies can still get the badges and experience that part of the game. I hope that makes sense.

You might have more luck with a title like "[Game Restriction] Can't Complete Biome Challenges."

This was mentioned in a different thread as well and I think it's a pretty serious oversight. Rule number one of game design is that all players should be able to complete the game. There's another just like it in the original challenges window to "kill five zombies" or something like that.

I don't get the impression TFP is even thinking about all the ways the game is being played by anyone other than min-maxing, AI-stumping YouTubers and Streamers. Not surprising, really. Most development studios end up concentrating on the "meta game" and completely forget meta gamers are not their entire audience.

 

[BFT2020]

modlet to remove the requirement of killing zombies in the various biomes

Resource icon

Biomes Challenge - No Zombie Playthrough

Jul 1, 2025

Complete biome challenges without zombies

• BFT2020
• Gameplay Mods

It's awaiting approval before it becomes viewable by the public

This was mentioned in a different thread as well and I think it's a pretty serious oversight. Rule number one of game design is that all players should be able to complete the game. There's another just like it in the original challenges window to "kill five zombies" or something like that.

I don't get the impression TFP is even thinking about all the ways the game is being played by anyone other than min-maxing, AI-stumping YouTubers and Streamers. Not surprising, really. Most development studios end up concentrating on the "meta game" and completely forget meta gamers are not their entire audience.

It is not a serious oversight. The main premise of this game is to defend yourself against hostile enemies with zombies being the main hostile enemy. They were nice enough to include the options of turning off bloodmoon hordes and zombies. They were also nice enough to make the game easy to modify.

It is not the game developer's responsibility of making the game compatible of every player for every scenario. The primary rule of game design is to design your game around a core mechanic. Killing zombies is a core mechanic of this game and they have designed aspects of it around this core mechanic - including zombie kill challenges, clear missions, etc.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

modlet to remove the requirement of killing zombies in the various biomes

Resource icon

Biomes Challenge - No Zombie Playthrough

Jul 1, 2025

Complete biome challenges without zombies

• BFT2020
• Gameplay Mods

It's awaiting approval before it becomes viewable by the public



It is not a serious oversight. The main premise of this game is to defend yourself against hostile enemies with zombies being the main hostile enemy. They were nice enough to include the options of turning off bloodmoon hordes and zombies. They were also nice enough to make the game easy to modify.

It is not the game developer's responsibility of making the game compatible of every player for every scenario. The primary rule of game design is to design your game around a core mechanic. Killing zombies is a core mechanic of this game and they have designed aspects of it around this core mechanic - including zombie kill challenges, clear missions, etc.

Turning zombies off is not a scenario. It's an option in the official game settings. As Tay suggested, TFP could accommodate those options and, I'd think, pretty easily. OP didn't ask for the supposed "challenge" to be removed, but only suggested official options be accommodated.

I'll never have to concern myself with it because I'll never have the nonsensically implemented "biome progression" on in the first place. But -- yes -- the official settings should be considered when implementing anything like this.

 

[Tay1372]

Thank you InfiniteWarrior for that suggestion. I'm pretty new to forums and still getting used to how to title things.

I do see BFT2020's point - yes, I am of a smaller audience in that I enjoy the game without zombies. The core game is, after all, about zombie killing so it's, of course, the primary goal to ensure that side of the game is priority.

However, as InfiniteWarrior, and others in other threads (apologies for starting a new one - as I said, still getting used to how forums work), the option to turn off enemy spawning is one of the official options of the game so I don't think it's too much to expect the devs to consider that option when making major updates to the game. We may be a small group of players in comparison with the majority who do play with zombies, but we are here.

 

[Suxar]

I'll never have to concern myself with it because I'll never have the nonsensically implemented "biome progression" on in the first place. But -- yes -- the official settings should be considered when implementing anything like this.

And they take it into account. There is a creative menu in the settings. Turn it on, take the binomial icon and run calmly.

 

[Tay1372]

I was hoping that with the latest updates, this issue might have been addressed, but I don't think it has. I also noticed that there is a main game challenge I can't complete because that also has a 'kill zombie' requirement. I've done all the others. I also forgot to mention in my original post that I play on PS5 so mods are not available to me.

Please TFP, I respect that your primary focus is the players who play this game 'full-blooded', but you gave us the opportunity to play without zombies so I really hope you find a way to make the challenges match the way we all play. Thank you.

 

[meganoth]

You might have more luck with a title like "[Game Restriction] Can't Complete Biome Challenges."

This was mentioned in a different thread as well and I think it's a pretty serious oversight. Rule number one of game design is that all players should be able to complete the game. There's another just like it in the original challenges window to "kill five zombies" or something like that.

I don't get the impression TFP is even thinking about all the ways the game is being played by anyone other than min-maxing, AI-stumping YouTubers and Streamers. Not surprising, really. Most development studios end up concentrating on the "meta game" and completely forget meta gamers are not their entire audience.

What does "completing the game" mean? Once the story is in, it will be some final fight you win and probably see some message saying "You win". It will be interesting to see if they can make a no-enemy mode out of that. But currently, completing the game is just playing until you have had enough of that map.

Completing the game is usually not "completing all the challenges" or "doing anything possible in the game". In all games I know completionists are on their own when changing options and many games don't even make it possible to do everything in one run.

@Tay1372 I am not an employee of TFP, so don't take this as any sort of official answer or fact. I don't know what TFP will do, but I don't think you can reasonable expect all features working when you turn off a major part of the game, even if it is an official option. You can go anywhere you want and "win" the game in the only way possible now, by stopping eventually.
Though it is always possible that it could be implemented if the number of players asking for it weighs more than the effort to implement it.

What is less than optimal though is that the option to turn off zombies doesn't turn off biome challenges automatically. I would consider that to be a bug.

 

[theFlu]

What does "completing the game" mean?

Not IW, but from the way it's phrased "as a development rule"; it means that a player shouldn't be able to make choices that prevent the course of a normal playthrough. Can't say I've heard of it as a rule before, but I haven't been edumecated in game design. Makes sense, though; don't let players screw themselves over in unwanted ways. In roguelikes the ways are wanted

In this case, it's about "don't lock players out of 80% of their map due to a setting".. not exactly unreasonable.

What is less than optimal though is that the option to turn off zombies doesn't turn off biome challenges automatically. I would consider that to be a bug.

That's one way to solve the apparent issue; but I don't know if it addresses the wants of the people playing no-zombies. Some might want the biome threats to still exist, and I don't see why they need to be linked to zombies in the first place - so I wouldn't outright advocate just turning the biome threats off automatically. If anything, just tag the zombie-challenge as complete when that setting is active.

 

[meganoth]

Not IW, but from the way it's phrased "as a development rule"; it means that a player shouldn't be able to make choices that prevent the course of a normal playthrough. Can't say I've heard of it as a rule before, but I haven't been edumecated in game design. Makes sense, though; don't let players screw themselves over in unwanted ways. In roguelikes the ways are wanted

In this case, it's about "don't lock players out of 80% of their map due to a setting".. not exactly unreasonable.

I mentioned that problem in my last sentence and also the setting to turn off biome challenges can be done at any time while playing the game (AFAIK). Could it be that you reply paragraph by paragraph and never edit what you write first?

That's one way to solve the apparent issue; but I don't know if it addresses the wants of the people playing no-zombies. Some might want the biome threats to still exist, and I don't see why they need to be linked to zombies in the first place - so I wouldn't outright advocate just turning the biome threats off automatically. If anything, just tag the zombie-challenge as complete when that setting is active.

Actually forgot about that last solution. I think it was mentioned already and I agree it would be perfect and simple.

Replacing it with a different challenge would incur problems as I would bet that players who don't turn off zombies suddenly would feel left out and want that challenge as well.

 

[Tay1372]

I mentioned that problem in my last sentence and also the setting to turn off biome challenges can be done at any time while playing the game (AFAIK). Could it be that you reply paragraph by paragraph and never edit what you write first?



Actually forgot about that last solution. I think it was mentioned already and I agree it would be perfect and simple.

Replacing it with a different challenge would incur problems as I would bet that players who don't turn off zombies suddenly would feel left out and want that challenge as well.

Thank you @theFlu , simply marking the zombie killing requirement as complete would work nicely. That way we can still progress through the rest of the challenge(s). Also, if it were possible, increase what we need to do in the rest of the requirements for those challenges to make up for not having the zombie-killing aspect.

@meganoth Your last sentence is a good point but some of us who play without zombies already feel left out because of the requirements the way they are. I realise we choose to play that way, but, since we pay the same price for the game as everyone else, I don't think it's too much to ask for a little bit of tweaking to the wonderful ability to play the way we do that TFP gives us.

 

[theFlu]

Could it be that you reply paragraph by paragraph and never edit what you write first?

I rewrote the whole thing twice, and judged it not worthy of the effort to fiddle further. Was just trying to point out that while IW may have used a Rule 1: Cardio -type overstatement, her point seemed to be something quite different from what you went on to postulate: IW: "don't break the progress" vs you:"just play the map til bored", or some such. Your "last line" doesn't resolve that difference, just suggests a fix to the game.

I've now written this one twice, and it still isn't worth the trouble

 

[meganoth]

I rewrote the whole thing twice, and judged it not worthy of the effort to fiddle further. Was just trying to point out that while IW may have used a Rule 1: Cardio -type overstatement, her point seemed to be something quite different from what you went on to postulate: IW: "don't break the progress" vs you:"just play the map til bored", or some such. Your "last line" doesn't resolve that difference, just suggests a fix to the game.

My last line would resolve that difference because then the player would not "be able to make choices" in the settings "that prevent the course of a normal playthrough". We agree that a normal playthrough involves reaching any place on the map other players can reach as well. And a player with zombies turned off could go anywhere and do almost everything other players can do.

Now where we differ is whether ticking off every achievement or challenge is part of a normal playthrough. We probably need to agree to disagree.

Or whether players with zombies turned off should be able to get to see ALL features of the game. I disagree on the grounds that this is impossible: They obviously don't see a major feature of the game, the blood moon horde tower defense part and that is impossible to change. The biome challenges in comparison are a small feature, even if in that case it is possible.

 

[theFlu]

Now where we differ is whether ticking off every achievement or challenge is part of a normal playthrough. We probably need to agree to disagree.

Well, not with me; and while IW mentioned another challenge for kills, I don't think she necessarily meant "challenge completeness" either. There's a whole row of "kill 50 <insert type>" challenges she either forgot or didn't include. Dunno, you'll have to ask her.

"Not with me": I don't really care about the challenge page, esp not for no-zeds players; my suggestion of completing those specific tasks is out of logic: it's the minimum change that allows non-zed mode to unlock the biomes. Minimum changes are nice for both software dev and game logic; the less you change things the less you break. Here, in my eyes, the break was being locked into Forest biome without zeds; the easiest way to stop requiring zeds is to tag "that thing" fulfilled.