Helpful perk rework

[BigDvsRL]

Hello,

i guess i'm not the only one that thinks the Perks need to be updated a bit...not their Stats....i think about the Costs

I explain it...

When i'm playing with my Friends im'm always the cook and farmer, i always need to use 6 lvl just to get that "job"...i would say they're kind of meant to be together...

I thought about maybe the Devs could "link" some skills together...and if one of them are learned, the other part gets a bit cheaper. Like you leveled Master Chef, then the Living off the Land should be (lets say) 1 Point cheaper for all of them (so instead of 6 levels in total, it would be just 5). With that Bundle you would target the Player that preferes staying in the base...

and then they could link another two skills together for the Explorer. I think it would make it a bit easier if one does these jobs and the other dont

 

[theFlu]

I don't hate the idea, as it sounds like it wouldn't do much. Although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 6 levels, the skill point costs are nore than 1 per rank, and both of those are a 3/3; you'll need way more than 6 points to grab both.

On the other hand, neither of them are mandatory; LotL 1/3 is necessary if you want to craft seeds, but past that they're optional. And Master Chef has a great drop-chance increase for foods, it should be on someone who is looting. Cooking fits a base-sitter well, but MC is still better utilized by a raider.

 

[Riamus]

Hello,

i guess i'm not the only one that thinks the Perks need to be updated a bit...not their Stats....i think about the Costs

I explain it...

When i'm playing with my Friends im'm always the cook and farmer, i always need to use 6 lvl just to get that "job"...i would say they're kind of meant to be together...

I thought about maybe the Devs could "link" some skills together...and if one of them are learned, the other part gets a bit cheaper. Like you leveled Master Chef, then the Living off the Land should be (lets say) 1 Point cheaper for all of them (so instead of 6 levels in total, it would be just 5). With that Bundle you would target the Player that preferes staying in the base...

and then they could link another two skills together for the Explorer. I think it would make it a bit easier if one does these jobs and the other dont

I would point out that if you are a stay at home player, you don't need the majority of perks, so you won't need to spend as many points as everyone else as it is.

In any case, a lot of people want their specific build to be cheaper. If every build was cheaper, you would be able to get all perks long before the end game. And if they only make certain ones cheaper, other people would be upset that they were ignored.

I don't really care either way. I am the cook and farmer, while still doing quests and scavenging and mining and building as well, but rarely put points into cooking and don't prioritize farming until mid game and we do fine.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Riamus "Stay at home" players or base moms also need to be able to do everything. Screamers, wandering hordes, blood moon needs crafting skills for their prefered weapon for example. And ofc they do go out in POI´s aswell quite often since we have the magazine system, even in MP Coop they need to go out as it is a pain in the butt and super slow to get all the magazines you need for the stay at home players and it clogs up your inventory a lot, unless you want to force them to use the same gear as the others, which isn´t really an option tbh. You can´t just stay at home all the time. Everyone needs a good build in the current version of the game no matter their playstyle.

Magazines ruined the freedom to play however you like.

 

[Riamus]

@Riamus "Stay at home" players or base moms also need to be able to do everything. Screamers, wandering hordes, blood moon needs crafting skills for their prefered weapon for example. And ofc they do go out in POI´s aswell quite often since we have the magazine system, even in MP Coop they need to go out as it is a pain in the butt and super slow to get all the magazines you need for the stay at home players and it clogs up your inventory a lot, unless you want to force them to use the same gear as the others, which isn´t really an option tbh. You can´t just stay at home all the time. Everyone needs a good build in the current version of the game no matter their playstyle.

Magazines ruined the freedom to play however you like.

Sure, they can go out, but they don't have to. There is no reason you can't have someone bring back magazines for a person who stays at the base. It even just have a dedicated crafter for whatever the stay at home person uses... If they mine as well, whoever is your scrapper can craft the mining stuff. It isn't difficult unless you have a bad group.

And if you can't handle screamers at your base using *stone* weapons, you are doing it wrong. By the time they are high enough tier enemies to be an issue, you should have some kind of defense in place to deal with them automatically.

As far as having weapons for horde night, if you have a stay at home person, you normally will have at least a few others in your group. There is a good chance one will use the same weapons as the stay at home person and can easily craft them (most people use more than one weapon).

Ifnot, all it takes is one single point in a weapon to get good drops of that magazine. If the party members aren't willing to spend a single point so you can do all the base work for them, then find a better party. Carrying them back isn't exactly difficult and doesn't take significant space. If you are talking about a stay at home player who wants to craft there weapon, that is a single magazine stack. You could let them use many kinds of magazines, but it isn't necessary. And it is just as easy to have other players craft those themselves and not need to bring home the magazines at all. After all, in my two player game, we split magazines right 50/50 and I being back many different magazines every trip out. If I can manage that without difficulty, bringing one or two back is hardly a big deal.

And there is also the option to buy weapons. So, again, it isn't difficult to deal with. You just have to work together and adapt. People just don't want to adapt and so are upset that things are different even if it isn't hard to deal with. And to be clear, I am not saying that about the OP at all.

Finally, that was a single side comment. The rest of the post was the main thing I was getting at. And whether or not you like magazines really isn't the point here. The point was about how many points to spend in a perk... specifically farming and cooking for perks, not for magazines unlocks, so magazines aren't even part of the OP.

 

[NiteViper]

Sure, they can go out, but they don't have to. There is no reason you can't have someone bring back magazines for a person who stays at the base. It even just have a dedicated crafter for whatever the stay at home person uses... If they mine as well, whoever is your scrapper can craft the mining stuff. It isn't difficult unless you have a bad group.

And if you can't handle screamers at your base using *stone* weapons, you are doing it wrong. By the time they are high enough tier enemies to be an issue, you should have some kind of defense in place to deal with them automatically.

As far as having weapons for horde night, if you have a stay at home person, you normally will have at least a few others in your group. There is a good chance one will use the same weapons as the stay at home person and can easily craft them (most people use more than one weapon).

Ifnot, all it takes is one single point in a weapon to get good drops of that magazine. If the party members aren't willing to spend a single point so you can do all the base work for them, then find a better party. Carrying them back isn't exactly difficult and doesn't take significant space. If you are talking about a stay at home player who wants to craft there weapon, that is a single magazine stack. You could let them use many kinds of magazines, but it isn't necessary. And it is just as easy to have other players craft those themselves and not need to bring home the magazines at all. After all, in my two player game, we split magazines right 50/50 and I being back many different magazines every trip out. If I can manage that without difficulty, bringing one or two back is hardly a big deal.

And there is also the option to buy weapons. So, again, it isn't difficult to deal with. You just have to work together and adapt. People just don't want to adapt and so are upset that things are different even if it isn't hard to deal with. And to be clear, I am not saying that about the OP at all.

Finally, that was a single side comment. The rest of the post was the main thing I was getting at.

Me and my wife work well together, she goes out loots and does scavenger runs, I'm usually at base crafting, if I'm not crafting, I'm out mining for materials. She brings me a butt load of magazines,

 

[Noxom]

People can bring magazines back to the person who stays at base.

I think it's very strange to expect a player who stays in one house all game to be able to progress like everyone else. If all you desire to do is lock yourself in a base, then you shouldn't be concerned with "freedom". Magazines aren't as flawed as people make them out to be.

 

[NiteViper]

People can bring magazines back to the person who stays at base.

I think it's very strange to expect a player who stays in one house all game to be able to progress like everyone else. If all you desire to do is lock yourself in a base, then you shouldn't be concerned with "freedom". Magazines aren't as flawed as people make them out to be.

I would say that at least 60% of my time is spent at our base, because I do all of the building and the crafting. When we start a map, the first 6 hours of that map is spent building our base. When I'm not building or crafting, I'm out mining for materials or making trader runs selling the items that we don't need. So, me and my wife more or less split the responsibilities with her doing the looting, scavenging and scrapping and I do the above-mentioned things. We have a very well-organized team; she knows her role and I know mine.

 

[Noxom]

I would say that at least 60% of my time is spent at our base, because I do all of the building and the crafting. When we start a map, the first 6 hours of that map is spent building our base. When I'm not building or crafting, I'm out mining for materials or making trader runs selling the items that we don't need. So, me and my wife more or less split the responsibilities with her doing the looting, scavenging and scrapping and I do the above-mentioned things. We have a very well-organized team; she knows her role and I know mine.

That sounds like some effective, pleasant teamwork. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to focus on defense/base/crafting. I think the game does a lot to encourage different playstyles. Each armor set is its own playstyle in a way.

Some people just want rigid and limited playstyles to be as beneficial as more active, adaptable playstyles. If you're alone then you should be trying to use all the game has to offer instead of being inflexible and expecting good results. Play however you want, but some ways will always be more effective than others and players should keep that in mind. I play to have fun, enjoy the ride, and adapt to whatever the game gives me.

 

[Balun]

adapt to whatever the game gives me.

This is the way

 

[BigDvsRL]

I don't hate the idea, as it sounds like it wouldn't do much. Although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 6 levels, the skill point costs are nore than 1 per rank, and both of those are a 3/3; you'll need way more than 6 points to grab both.

On the other hand, neither of them are mandatory; LotL 1/3 is necessary if you want to craft seeds, but past that they're optional. And Master Chef has a great drop-chance increase for foods, it should be on someone who is looting. Cooking fits a base-sitter well, but MC is still better utilized by a raider.

Yeah, i meant with levels, the Points that you need to buy the Perks. I'm not 100% if Masterchef from 1-3 has been 3 Points or even more...but it doesnt really matter...the Point was more or less...that i think it would be helpful for these "Jobs" to make it a bit easier.

Since Living by the land and Chef needs tons of Points and even if you manage to use the points correctly..there will be a big difference at the blood moon, if (lets assume chef and living by the land costs 6 points)... then you are at least 2 or 3 Points in your Tree behind and 3-4 behind in your weapon skill


and my thought was that if it needs 6 Points for chef and Living by the land, then changing it into 5 Points (just if you already skilled on of them) wouldnt make it unbalanced, but i think it would make it easier for those who decided to take a Role on their Save

 

[Riamus]

The thing is that you don't need to perk into those in the first week. You can do just fine without that. After that first week, you should easily afford to start putting points in without it really impacting your weapons. And you should have no trouble at all on the first couple of horde nights even if you put points into those and max them out. Besides, like I think I mentioned earlier, I don't even put points into cooking and I am the cook. Saving time is unnecessary and the little bit of savings in food is not worth much since you can easily get enough stuff to cook with.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Riamus They have to go out. We tried when the magazines first were introduced to provide our base mom with the magazines she needs, but it´s a huge pain in the butt due to the slow rate the magazines drop for skills we have no points in and due to the inventory getting full way too fast.

Now with the sledgehammer book the game stage increases way faster which is a problem for screamers and no we will not change our playstyle due to bad game design. Also she likes to build big so getting up the defense fast enough is a problem. Again, not gonna adapt the stlye we like due to bad game design.

There is a lot to fix in this game, don´t see why we should change how we play so it´s not playing until they fix it. Or not. We played long enough over the years to not bother if they don´t fix it. Borderlands 4 is coming out today, still a lot to do in Dune, No Mans Sky had some great updates since the last time we played. Heck even Bugthesdas Fallout76 is more fun right now with all it´s bugs, glitches and it´s akward building system. Not our loss here.

 

[Suxar]

The thing is that you don't need to perk into those in the first week.

In the last game, I invested all my first points into the farmer - and I liked it. I quickly found all the journals on creating seeds and quickly created a garden. I invested only 1 point into the cook, which was enough to collect the required number of journals in a reasonable time.

I just think the developers should rework the cooking menu. It's strange that the ingredients for the very first dishes require maximum knowledge of seeds.

 

[Riamus]

@Riamus They have to go out. We tried when the magazines first were introduced to provide our base mom with the magazines she needs, but it´s a huge pain in the butt due to the slow rate the magazines drop for skills we have no points in and due to the inventory getting full way too fast.

Now with the sledgehammer book the game stage increases way faster which is a problem for screamers and no we will not change our playstyle due to bad game design. Also she likes to build big so getting up the defense fast enough is a problem. Again, not gonna adapt the stlye we like due to bad game design.

There is a lot to fix in this game, don´t see why we should change how we play so it´s not playing until they fix it. Or not. We played long enough over the years to not bother if they don´t fix it. Borderlands 4 is coming out today, still a lot to do in Dune, No Mans Sky had some great updates since the last time we played. Heck even Bugthesdas Fallout76 is more fun right now with all it´s bugs, glitches and it´s akward building system. Not our loss here.

As a reminder, the OP is not talking about magazines. But from playing the game myself, I've had no issues with gathering the magazines needed. The only ones that don't drop quickly if you don't perk into them are weapons and armor. Armor shouldn't matter because someone in the party should want to craft armor, so should already be getting those. Weapons are a minor issue if no one uses that specific tree. However, as I said, if you put one single point into a weapon perk (that doesn't require any points in the attribute), you can get those magazines frequently. As far as anything else the person staying at the base might want, those would normally be tools, cooking, and farming. Someone going out would be a scrapper, so tools aren't an issue. And cooking and farming are extremely easy to get without any points in them.

In any case, it is not bad game design just because you don't like that a main part of the game design is scavenging. That's nothing more than your preference for how you want to play. Pick whatever game is considered the best designed game of all time and if I want to play it in a way that doesn't follow the way the game is designed, that would not mean it isn't designed well. It just means I'm not playing it in a way that matches the design of the game. If you can't adapt the the game's design, then you have the option of mods or other games. Asking for them to change it just because you or your party member don't want to play the full game and want only to focus on one part of it makes no sense. As someone pointed out above, if someone doesn't want to play the full game, there's no reason they should progress as easily as those who do. The simple fact is that they can progress easily if their party is willing to work with them. I have no problem with that in MP and others have said they have no problem with it either.

In the last game, I invested all my first points into the farmer - and I liked it. I quickly found all the journals on creating seeds and quickly created a garden. I invested only 1 point into the cook, which was enough to collect the required number of journals in a reasonable time.

I just think the developers should rework the cooking menu. It's strange that the ingredients for the very first dishes require maximum knowledge of seeds.

Cooking and farming magazines drop so quickly, you should be able to max them out easily without any perks within the first week on default 60 minute days. I'm usually maxed with both by the second or third day on two hour days. And I don't put points into either in the first week or two (almost never for cooking).

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Riamus, because you do quests and go out as you said yourself. We tried to get her the magazines she needed, but that was way to slow. Tools and weapons mainly. She is also doing the crafting, besides our own weapons and armor ofc, so we need quite some different magazines for her. We tried and the difference is HUGE between here going out and staying at home/mining. So yeah, if we don´t want her to be a lot behind us, which also is bad for us, she needs to go out. We played the game, we know how it works. Stay at home isn´t viable even in MP Coop, maybe at default difficulty and longer days. Don´t you play 90mins? Can´t compare that to default days.

We went from sandbox and do whatever you want to what we have now. And a ton of people aren´t happy with that. They never should have gone the route of magazines, that´s my point.

 

[BigDvsRL]

@Riamus, because you do quests and go out as you said yourself. We tried to get her the magazines she needed, but that was way to slow. Tools and weapons mainly. She is also doing the crafting, besides our own weapons and armor ofc, so we need quite some different magazines for her. We tried and the difference is HUGE between here going out and staying at home/mining. So yeah, if we don´t want her to be a lot behind us, which also is bad for us, she needs to go out. We played the game, we know how it works. Stay at home isn´t viable even in MP Coop, maybe at default difficulty and longer days. Don´t you play 90mins? Can´t compare that to default days.

We went from sandbox and do whatever you want to what we have now. And a ton of people aren´t happy with that. They never should have gone the route of magazines, that´s my point.

i kind of have to agree. With the Magazines, the Exploring turned mainly into the MAIN Route that Players have to go

and for "Stay at home" Players, its very hard to get the game going...if you wont leave the Area of your house, then you'll only get stuff through the bloodmoon and maybe wandering hords.

And to return to the topic, i dont think it would Hurt anyone, if the game has some kind of "Jobs" in that are represented by the Perks. Nearly nobody would have a harder time if some Perks get cheaper through the Combo

 

[Riamus]

@Riamus, because you do quests and go out as you said yourself. We tried to get her the magazines she needed, but that was way to slow. Tools and weapons mainly. She is also doing the crafting, besides our own weapons and armor ofc, so we need quite some different magazines for her. We tried and the difference is HUGE between here going out and staying at home/mining. So yeah, if we don´t want her to be a lot behind us, which also is bad for us, she needs to go out. We played the game, we know how it works. Stay at home isn´t viable even in MP Coop, maybe at default difficulty and longer days. Don´t you play 90mins? Can´t compare that to default days.

We went from sandbox and do whatever you want to what we have now. And a ton of people aren´t happy with that. They never should have gone the route of magazines, that´s my point.

If it is such a big deal to bring back magazines (I bring back about half the magazines each run because I'm not using half of them myself without an issue), then work it out in your group to change who does what. The person at the base should be crafting just what makes sense. Yes, you can bring them magazines to craft vehicles for example, but why? Let the person who perks into vehicles because they are out there actually using them and want to have the bonus for cheaper repairs do it instead of bringing magazines back for that. Tools? Let your scrapper do it since they'll be perking into it anyhow. And so on. And if you absolutely have to let that stay at home person craft everything, then bring back the magazines. Or at worst, make a crate somewhere and drop them in there and tell the base person to go out and grab them once in a while if you can't be bothered to bring them back. It really isn't difficult to do. You make it sound like it's impossible to play the way you want, but you are choosing to make it difficult when it's actually very easy to have someone stay at the base.

Simply put, we bring back everything we find and store it at the base. Anyone who stays at the base has access to everything that we find. They aren't lacking in any way. They gain their experience through what they're doing, whether mining or building or whatever. Maybe they don't keep up as well and maybe they are ahead of others depending how much they are doing around the base. But they have access to all the same resources that anyone going out to scavenge do. Maybe they don't get first choice of better stuff, but that's not exactly a problem. Those who do the work should get first choice. If you can't figure out how to make this work in your group, then perhaps you have a bad group.

And, again, that's not even what this thread is about.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Again, we do not want to be forced to adapt to the game, we prefer a more sandboy like style where getting skills isn´t tied to a certain playstyle and having to go trough hoops. If the game continues to be that way we rather stay away. You know very well that i am not alone with my opinion that the magazines were a bad idea. There is quite a large portion of people that would prefer any other way than magazines, not even talking about wanting LBD back, just not magazines.

Save your time, magazines are a no go for us. Even if we were literally the only ones not liking it, nothing could coninbce us otherwise.

This game feels like a magazine and cloth collecting simulator to often while playing.

 

[Suxar]

i kind of have to agree. With the Magazines, the Exploring turned mainly into the MAIN Route that Players have to go

Magazines just took away the randomness. I remember one of my early games before magazines. It was the third week, I had learned a ton of recipes, but I couldn't do anything with steel. I couldn't find a crucible or a recipe for it. The same thing was true for weapons, sometimes a recipe would drop on the first day, and sometimes you couldn't find it even on the fourth week.

Both mechanics have their pros and cons.

and for "Stay at home" Players, its very hard to get the game going...

This is not the first time I read about the game while sitting at the base. What do you do there? Between harvesting and planting the garden, you need 2 hours of real time. Cooking. You throw ingredients into the fire and it cooks, you don't have to look at it. And cooking a batch of food also takes more than an hour.

What do you do while sitting at the base?