The missed post from woodle

wwiiogre said:
Take the time to read the entirety of what I wrote before responding. Thanks.

It looked like the Pimps had turned a customer relations corner and were done attacking their fans. Now they have literally disgraced themselves with this premeditated attack on JaWoodle. An attack caused by either their own intentional action or their own mistake. So like a petulant child it appears the Pimps struck out instead of holding up a hand and saying. Our bad. But thanks JaWoodle for driving up so much good will with your positive post on our hard work. It may not be finished or even done the way your posted. So be aware it is still a work in progress. That is not what they did.

Unfortunately, this clearly falls in Fair Use and not under copyright. His Channel is a game news channel especially when concerning the new release of 3.0. No judge or jury would ever rule against him. The Fun Pimps would be liable for all of his lost revenue for enforcing a devastating copyright strike on him for their mistake. Which shows malice aforethought. I am not a lawyer. Ignore my opinion about law. But this smells and TFP and Behavior need to get out front of this.

Public Apologies need to be made immediately and this needs to be fixed. 3.0 made me have a real good feeling. Watching JaWoodle's youtube with the chicken coop, bandits and bell made me happy and excited again. I have personally bought over ten copies of this game and given them to friends and family. Including Xbox and PC versions. I have thousands and thousands of hours playing this game. I support this game. I have bought shirts, mouse pads, coffee table cup holders. Etc.

This looks bad. It smells bad. It is petty. Worse it is wrong on a fundamental level. I hope TFP has enough balls to just bite the bullet, hold up a hand and say my bad. And fix it. Behavior for sure should look at this, especially if they did not have a hand in this decision and step in and fix it. The community loves JaWoodle. JaWoodle literally sells games for TFP/Behavior.

I hope this is fixed. This is TFP's fault for giving people the wrong copy. This is TFP's fault for attacking a person who was doing exactly what he was asked to do by TFP. TFP saw the positive results that person was achieving. Once again TFP made the morally obvious wrong choice with how they responded. But that is my opinion. I hope this get's solved.

I have been here since Alpha 13. Still playing over fifty hours a week in the game. Still hoping the game gets finished. Doubt I will ever spend another dime on DLC or Merch after this incident unless it gets fixed right. Sad but true. I am the customer that makes you money. I am the customer that supports you above and beyond. Yet, after this?

Please TFP/Behavior do the right thing.
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I've bought 20 copies and done the same thing. Never seen a woodle the noodle video in my life aside from the bandits, which I only saw because he misrepresented what v3.0 was about. Had friends and family asking me if bandits were in the new version. Hopefully they're able to take the video down for good and maybe even squeeze some legal costs out of woodle as well if he's stupid enough to take TFP/Behavior to court
 
permadeathpayday said:
I've bought 20 copies and done the same thing. Never seen a woodle the noodle video in my life aside from the bandits, which I only saw because he misrepresented what v3.0 was about. Had friends and family asking me if bandits were in the new version. Hopefully they're able to take the video down for good and maybe even squeeze some legal costs out of woodle as well if he's stupid enough to take TFP/Behavior to court
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Good luck if you're hoping TFP wins in any way from this. Already, the community of players is seeing how TFP handle something being done that they don't like. Be that a content creator, a simple person putting together a fair-use video in a manner they don't appreciate or anything else. It seems their response will be copyright strike, whether warranted or not. I pray BI knows better about illegitimate copyright strikes and can influence TFP decisions from here on out. The initial mistake was TFP. Let the first move towards finding an agreeable outcome come from them too.
Whether warranted or not, starting a war with your largest (followers- wise) content creator could easily lead to your games stream rating being effected in a horrible manner.
I hope it doesn't come to a massive down vote for 7dtd. But I'll definitely be watching.
 
Magnus33john said:
So rather then talk to the guy they kick him out of the creator program and copyright strike him for a mistake they made?!!!!
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But they talked to "the guy". He posted that himself. They respectfully said they made a mistake and asked him repeatedly to please remove or edit the content. He even stated that he wouldn't comply and was aware that that would most probably cost him his creator program access. A willingly and knowingly choice. So please stick to the facts when ranting. To me this is just a matter of respect between 2 partners. If one of them shows none, the other will lose theirs too. And there we are.

In case you missed it: https://community.thefunpimps.com/threads/the-missed-post-from-woodle.47542/post-639375
 
respite82 said:
I pray BI knows better about illegitimate copyright strikes
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Why do you think TFP are some run down, shady organization, operating from a basement back-alley office? :unsure:
Don't you think they have professional legal advice available?

Your bias is evident in all of your posts and your assumptions about how TFP operate are, quite frankly, offensive to their professionality.
 
I've been reading the comments from Woodle's community post, and the majority believe TFP "attacked" Woodle because he was given the wrong build and are making him pay for it. To me, the issue is not that Woodle showed off the content moreso than it is him refusing to take said content down when asked to. If I was a part of the Creator program, I would respect TFP's wishes. They weren't being unreasonable by such a request. Of course, it is TFP's fault for sending out the wrong build, no one can say different, but, in my opinion, JaWoodle could have handled it better. At the end of the day though, we have no idea of the actual legalities of the situation, and all of our perspectives are coming from the outside. Either way I hope both parties can come to an agreement and move on from this.
 
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theFlu said:
The most interesting part of this whole drama would be to see that tested in court ... :P
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There's nothing to test. Just because JaWoodle posts the content does not mean he owns the property that the content was derived from. It's the EXACT same with music that is used in videos. You need permission to post that content otherwise you risk getting struck with a copyright infringement. Whatever agreement TFP makes with streamers for these early release videos, I would be really surprised that it didn't include language that gives TFP the ultimate rights to the content and gives them authority to ask that it be altered or taken down. They asked. JaWoodle refused.

It looks bad for both parties, but I don't think there's anything JaWoodle can do.
 
Not a fan of JaWoodle, but I was excited about 3.0 and knew JaWoodle had posted such a negative on 2.0. So I wanted his take on the new release. So I watched it when it came out. Because TFP were using JaWoodle for their marketing thru the streamer weekend spree. JaWoodle was absolutely honest on his stream. He noted these were in the files but not part of 3.0. Which is what JaWoodle does. He breaks things down, he finds things. What makes me suspicious about this particular event is the fact these things JaWoodle found were all things he specifically has asked for and is excited about. TFP without proof otherwise gave that specific build to JaWoodle knowing he was going to dig into it, like he always does. If they didn't know, they are ignorant on purpose. If most creators got a different build, and JaWoodle and a few others got the bandit/coop/bell build. That is entirely on TFP. Like I said, either they did it thru malice or did it thru incompetence. Making TFP wrong from the beginning. TFP then chose to attempt to have JaWoodle remove the video which would cost him money. If TFP didn't offer him compensation, once again they are wrong. Then by enforcing a copyright strike they once again cost JaWoodle money. Not just for the video but for all future videos. TFP did this with fore thought and malice knowing JaWoodle had Fairuse and never violated copyright. But that is my opinion.

Jost. TFP has done some shady things. Said some nasty things to their fan base. Shady thing number one. They took promised content that was already in the game. Removed it then sold it back to the fans. That is shady. I am talking about armors that were planned as part of future releases, shown to us. Then monetized instead. Removed clothes from the game so they could sell monetized outfits. Etc. Shady. But, I love the game. Most of the things over the thousands of hours and versions of the games I have played. TFP has been right about to change or delay. But I am not blinded. I see reality and describe it as I see it.

I am extremely happy with 3.0. I don't care about bandits being delayed, coop being delayed, bell, etc. I loved how absolutely excited JaWoodle was when he discovered those things. The fact TFP missed out on their chance to show off bandits in a marketing move. Just shows how truly horrible their control is over what is happening in the background around the game. First thing, why weren't all copies of the streamer version emailed and released at the same time? Why were different versions sent to different people? How is that even possible?

I have handled control over a huge commercial construction site, receiving materials in the millions of dollars every day. Verifying each shipment, verifying it being installed at each lot, scheduling and verifying each city/county/state/federal inspection. Then each day meeting with the comptroller and verifying who gets paid. Even one mistake could put someone out of business if they don't get their payroll each Friday. So I know how to handle massive volumes of information, what it costs vendors or creators if you make a mistake. Knowing it is my fault and I have to eat the cost when a mistake happens. So making ■■■■ sure I don't make mistakes and everything is double checked. Confirmed. Personally inspected. Because at the end of the day. My signature was at the bottom confirming it was all done legally and on time. This did not appear to happen in this instance.

Because we don't know the written agreement between TFP and JaWoodle and we don't know exactly how this version got to JaWoodle and if it truly was an accident or intentional. We have to sit back and guess. My point is, it was a TFP mistake either way. Then worse they handled it badly. Then worse they threatened then monetarily attacked JaWoodle. When all he did was what they asked him to do with the version they gave him. Sorry, when you make an agreement with someone, they then spend time, energy, planning and money. TFP gets the excitement and marketing JaWoodle was hired to do. Then they ask JaWoodle to lose money on his side. Sorry, TFP are wrong. On multiple counts. Hope they realize this before it gets worse. This is sad. Never throw more bad decisions at worse decisions. Especially because of pride. This will not end well.
 
Syphon583 said:
There's nothing to test.
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I beg to differ. You'd need to cite some serious case law to convince me otherwise. US and Australian; related to:
1) Does the developer of SW automatically inherit any rights over video recordings of use of said SW?
I assume not. TFP does too - they're demanding for those rights in their EULA, they wouldn't if they didn't need to.
2) IS that EULA-derived transfer of rights enforceable in Australia and USA?
I haven't ran into any case law that would establish that for this case.
3) Even if the EULA-transfer of rights stands, is it still Fair Use to slap your own face on it and make content; the content with commentary is completely different from the SW recording itself.
It might well be, it is quite transformative in the legal sense (the standard for that isn't as high as people think)

I think those are the easiest to understand "soft spots" in this particular case; and I honestly don't know if these have been ruled on by relevant courts... if you got court links, I'd be happy to see :)
 
LittleNightma said:
Woodle showed off the content moreso than it is him refusing to take said content down when asked to.
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pApA^LeGBa said:
I don´t see why people defend him tbh. TFP made a mistake and asked him to take it down, they even gave him quite some time to do so before they striked him. He didn´t and now faces the consequences. F around and find out.
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You're willing to ■■■■ on your efforts because of someone else's mistake? Nah bro, TFP messed up. It's on them to own up to it.

They should've offered the value of the video to take it down, not demand it.

inb4 it was a request
Obviously it wasn't if they went foreword with a copyright strike. It was a demand.
 
HammerDano said:
too much irony in that statement for me to just let it go by

this thread is full of fanboys...of both ilk.

Until "we" get to see the actual back and forth between both parties I still maintain that NO ONE here has the full picture.
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We know TFP made a mistake, we know they asked him to take it down and we know that he refused. I don´t know about you, but in my job career i do not abuse the mistakes of people i work with, especially when i make my living of their product.
 
pApA^LeGBa said:
We know TFP made a mistake, we know they asked him to take it down and we know that he refused. I don´t know about you, but in my job career i do not abuse the mistakes of people i work with, especially when i make my living of their product.
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yes...we all "know" just enough to indulge our personal biases. I will continue to advocate that no one has enough information to actually judge with FACTS.
On the surface, imo, it looks like both parties are in the wrong, in some way.

circumstantially, it looks very off, to many people and content creators, that Jawoodle, the guy who gets blamed for triggering the "■■■■ storm" was the one who got THAT build.

circumstantially, some people think it looks bad on Jawoodle that he was asked to remove "accidentally" received content...and he refused...by his own admission.


Too many details missing for me to blame either party as being wholly guilty...or innocent.
 
There were a number of content creators in the first 15 minutes or so that got b205 instead of b250 at the very moment we got the access code. To my knowledge, JaWoodle was the only content creator that didn't update to b250, and I believe the reason for this is because the moment his download completed, JaWoodle would have launched the game, preventing the game to automatically update from b205 to b250. Logically speaking, JaWoodle would have right there and then began recording the video without knowledge of having the wrong version.

Personally, by the time I got the early access build downloaded, I had b250, likely due to having a slow connection, so it switched from b205 to b250 part way through the download process. I noticed my download progress had gone backwards at some point.

Regarding TFP, I believe it was a reasonable and honest mistaken typo that was made when linking up the access code to the build version, b205 vs b250.
We are all guilty of making typos every day of our lives, typos can be fixed, and TFP fixed their typo as soon as they were made aware of it, there's no malice or premeditation with typos.

Personally, if I was in JaWoodle's shoes, I would have edited the video to cut out the bandit's and chicken coop and changed the thumbnail, which TFP had requested. TFP made honest mistake with a simple typo and I would have honoured that mistake by rectifying it on my end.
 
I think this is a poor way of handling it for TFP. Jawoodle is constantly making videos that help promote the game, draw in new players and rekindle interest in older players (by doing the challenge series he does and all the videos about new updates, content and hoard base builds). To try to interfere with his livelihood (because removing videos off of YouTube will effect his income) because of a mistake that THEY made....one that didn't even look bad on them (because come on, a preview of the new chicken coop and a glimpse at bandits...both of which he was highly excited about, so the video was highly positive and very pro-TFP) instead of simply making their own statement (and/or asking Jawoodle to make a statement) about how these features are still being fine tuned and will come out when they are ready would have been a much better look for them. Instead, they sound like a petulant child who is mad that THEY shared a 'secret' with someone who then told other people. THEY are the ones who made the error, it shouldn't be a punishment to Jawoodle to fix their mistake. Slapping him with a copywrite infringement is beyond childish and honestly makes me never want to spend money on this company again, if this is how they are going to treat fans and the content creators we love to watch.
 
HammerDano said:
yes...we all "know" just enough to indulge our personal biases. I will continue to advocate that no one has enough information to actually judge with FACTS.
On the surface, imo, it looks like both parties are in the wrong, in some way.

circumstantially, it looks very off, to many people and content creators, that Jawoodle, the guy who gets blamed for triggering the "■■■■ storm" was the one who got THAT build.

circumstantially, some people think it looks bad on Jawoodle that he was asked to remove "accidentally" received content...and he refused...by his own admission.


Too many details missing for me to blame either party as being wholly guilty...or innocent.
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Oh come on are you really on the tinfoil hat faction that thinks they sent it on purpose? Nahh. See Frantics post above, obviously a typo.
 
Jawoodle is essentially just a 7 days to die creator. He's niche. He's not a mainstream creator like a Markiplier. So if Jawoodle stops making 7 days to die content and also removes all of his existing 7 days to die videos, the effect on promoting the game to potential new players is effectively zero. The only real negative effect would be from Jawoodle viewers who very well likely own the game already.

Youtube's algorithm would instantly fill the gap with the remaining 7 days to die creators.

And unless TFP/Behaviour issued a content ID monetization claim before the takedown, the video made Jawoodle around $1000 for the 200k+ views it got. Takedowns do not retroactively claim revenue, so Jawoodle should have that money. Also, it's a video about unfinished content from the game. It is very timely; it's not an "evergreen" video. The video very likely already made the bulk of its money.

With that said, to me, the situation makes Jawoodle look untrustworthy in the eyes of potential business partnerships of this nature. TFP did make a mistake, but they reached out and tried to fix the issue in a soft, relationship based way. Jawoodle refused to cooperate. He could've edited the video using YouTube's editing features, which would have not affected the view count, meaning he wouldn't have had to take the video down, edit it and then reupload it.

His videos don't usually get a large amount of views (around 20k) but he uploads a video a day...so that adds up. I am very confused why he thought it was a good idea to completely torch his bridge with TFP over a rare high-view video of his that would end up earning a few thousand dollars at best. Hell, even if the video would've gotten a million views, that's still not anywhere near life changing money....or bridge burning money.

And the notion that TFP is the bigger bad guy in this situation seems to me like an immature, uninformed take.
 
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