Roland's Top Ten Ranked: Items that have been added

[Roland]

Good answer, but I wonder whether those POIs once discovered and entered into once would forever afterward be skipped because....boring. If there was no loot room then people into efficiency wouldn't bother. They already say there's no point to just exploring POIs without a quest since there's no reward attached to doing. If there was a loot room then they would be monopolized by people into efficiency because the loot room would be so much more easily accessed. Interesting thought exercise to wonder how different types of players would react to POIs like that added to the game.

 

[Rotor]

Good answer, but I wonder whether those POIs once discovered and entered into once would forever afterward be skipped because....boring. If there was no loot room then people into efficiency wouldn't bother. They already say there's no point to just exploring POIs without a quest since there's no reward attached to doing. If there was a loot room then they would be monopolized by people into efficiency because the loot room would be so much more easily accessed. Interesting thought exercise to wonder how different types of players would react to POIs like that added to the game.

I see, the min/maxers are the problem.

j/k.....but

 

[Rotor]

I mean, does everyone in this world have their homes set up so there is really only one path through it?

I think they learned the Zs AI pathing right before the attacks.

I think TFP only learned it after Axx whenever it changed .

If i may get off topic for minute, just had a thought (I know dangerous). If dungeon PoIs are linear pathing, it is obvious to me, now, then that is the way BM bases need to be .

Sorry if it doesnt make sense, I am a post op drug induced extra existential mood atm .

 

[theFlu]

They already say there's no point to just exploring POIs without a quest since there's no reward attached to doing.

Yeh, adding those wouldn't solve the draw of the quest loop; that's a separate discussion... From that point of view they would be a waste of space, but maybe the world needs some "decorated emptiness" too? Atm everything is either questable or completely ignored (tier zeros / ruins), so at worst nothing would change there. Just more places with little interest. But it might be a slight shift towards a more "immersive" world, there would be Some interest in checking them out, even if not as an arena for repeated play.

 

[grz__]

Good answer, but I wonder whether those POIs once discovered and entered into once would forever afterward be skipped because....boring. If there was no loot room then people into efficiency wouldn't bother. They already say there's no point to just exploring POIs without a quest since there's no reward attached to doing. If there was a loot room then they would be monopolized by people into efficiency because the loot room would be so much more easily accessed. Interesting thought exercise to wonder how different types of players would react to POIs like that added to the game.

Just an idea, scatter all that final loot among the different rooms, ammo boxes, gun cabinets, closets, basement storage freezers, emergency bunkers, etc. and have each type of object make sense where you find it.

 

[Kalen]

Good answer, but I wonder whether those POIs once discovered and entered into once would forever afterward be skipped because....boring. If there was no loot room then people into efficiency wouldn't bother. They already say there's no point to just exploring POIs without a quest since there's no reward attached to doing. If there was a loot room then they would be monopolized by people into efficiency because the loot room would be so much more easily accessed. Interesting thought exercise to wonder how different types of players would react to POIs like that added to the game.

Yeah, probably so. For me, one of the best changes they could make to the dungeon style POIs, is some randomization. Have different places the loot room could be.... sometimes have no loot room (as an aside, I don't like loot rooms, I feel they remove the need to find specific POIs for different types of loot).

I agree that going to a POI without a quest feels less rewarding, so I seldom do so. Thats what I miss about earlier versions of the game.... I used to look for things like book stores and tool stores so I could find books & tools. Now I can get all that from a loot room in any POI so there is no incentive (other than exploration) to go to specific POIs

 

[Grandpa Minion]

It is hard for me to understand why anyone would want less of the modern POIs and more of the legacy POIs.

A straightforward simple question warrants a straightforward simple response:
Attractiveness does not always prevail,
while many desire a beautiful partner or spouse, it does not imply that they are free from complications and baggage they could bring.
"honey, go buy me that mercedes"

 

[Kyoji]

I was talking more about how POIs are mazelike and cramped now compared to being open and empty like they used to be. Whether zombies are in closets, in the ceiling, or on the ground doesn't make very much difference to me either. But the level design of POIs in the modern game are leaps and bounds beyond the building interiors of the legacy game, imo.

It is hard for me to understand why anyone would want less of the modern POIs and more of the legacy POIs. I pretty much skip over all the new remnants they've added simply because they are empty and boring. I'd hate it if 50% of the POIs were like that. But different strokes for different folks....

The "look" of the designs is leagues ahead, but there are some things that hold them back such as sleeper zombies and zombies triggers. They are both good and bad at the same time. Good in that it gives you a challenge, but bad in that it feels artificial (for example zombies spawning in once you touch the bottom of the stairs in the tier one gas station POI, whereas if you are at the top looking down it shows empty) and that it really does a number on being able to stealth.

So for me they are both simultaneously amazing and annoying.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:56 AM

Good answer, but I wonder whether those POIs once discovered and entered into once would forever afterward be skipped because....boring. If there was no loot room then people into efficiency wouldn't bother. They already say there's no point to just exploring POIs without a quest since there's no reward attached to doing. If there was a loot room then they would be monopolized by people into efficiency because the loot room would be so much more easily accessed. Interesting thought exercise to wonder how different types of players would react to POIs like that added to the game.

They shouldn't have loot rooms. They should be spread throughout the POI.

 

[Vaeliorin]

If there was a loot room then they would be monopolized by people into efficiency because the loot room would be so much more easily accessed.

People already nerd pole/dig/whatever into loot rooms before starting quests, or just as they're passing by, so I don't know that this would be that much of a change.

Like others have said, it just bothers me that every building has for some reason been turned into an anti-zombie fortress.

 

[ilexev]

Ouais, ajouter ça ne résoudrait pas l'attrait de la boucle de quêtes ; c'est un autre sujet… De ce point de vue, ce serait un gaspillage d'espace, mais peut-être que le monde a aussi besoin d'un peu de « vide décoré » ? Pour l'instant, tout est soit quêteable, soit complètement ignoré (niveau zéro/ruines), donc au pire, rien ne changerait. Juste plus d'endroits sans grand intérêt. Mais cela pourrait constituer un léger changement vers un monde plus « immersif », il y aurait un intérêt à les découvrir, même si ce n'est pas comme une arène pour des parties répétées.

For exemple, the house completly burned, in the hide basement ?

Post automatically merged: Today at 6:07 AM

@Roland hi, did you read or put all the idea in a dedicated bloc note or something ?

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

For me I agree with the need for randomization of poi internal layout
regarding loot and zombies, even rooms configuration.

Why? Human memory, and retention, If people had the retention memory
of a fruit fly the layout would be perfect. But, Once achieved or transgressed
replay-ability slowly becomes a speed run. And the request for more pois ensues.

IRL example: After once for some and a few times for others, you can move through
your home in the dark with your eyes closed, without stubbing your toe or falling
over a table, while heading for the kitchen or toilet.

In game example: No matter how difficult the AI becomes if they are always
in the same locations, memory will kick in. Now if all players had temporary
STML like Dory while playing then again it would be perfect.

A few mods I played altered the rules, and included additional loot containers
that meant more involvement in finding what you were looking for. Of course
there are those that would dislike it and label it as inconvenient of annoying
because it changes knowns and expectations. So there is no perfect solution.

There is one kitchen cabinet that I have always wondered about, the one in
the upper corner.

If there were an algorithm that rotated randomization of placements, then 1 poi
structure could be similar to a near infinite replay. That is why I posted "I hope
they make it Fuzzy" meaning fuzzy logic. Which is a lot simpler that neural net,
just a hierarchy of yes and nos.

Like what if loot were under a sofa, or in a wall that was not warped, or behind
a fridge, or buried in the yard, or behind a new brick wall, and not always labeled.

I don't know how much data that would add, If they are randomly set to on/off as
to having loot there or not, and turning on/off randomized placement of loot helpers.

The mechanic is already in place, that is how cars, and loot containers populate the
terrain. That is the one of the last steps after terrain gen, populating the random
loot around the world on the ground. It would definitely change the rules if it were
applied to the POIS and their internal layout.

 

[n2n1]

1) Improved pathing:
//// I returned to A16 and the pathing of the zombies was abysmal. They would simply run in circles or endless run up and down ladders and get stuck on corners and blocks. In my opinion the improved AI and pathing that TFP added post A16 has greatly improved the game.

they started running in circles and skipping waypoints after the "AI improvement" began.
You won't see this behavior before the A15