PC Why did you ruin your game?

[Sapient6]

Completely realistic drops, but limiting most bandits to pipe tier; nothing's saying the bandos need to be superior to us, just dangerous in their own way (distinct from zombies). All the pipe loot you want, but who wants it .. ? (maybe add bandit gear that is statwise roughly the Primitive Set but looks more menacing)

I like this approach. That, or: the bandits are equipped (and drop) according to loot stage, but only quality 1, and always 1 or 2 tiers lower than loot stage leans toward. So they eventually drop better than pipe, and if that's exciting for you then it's because you've fallen solidly behind your loot stage. Then they become a little bit of Bad Luck Protection, which really wouldn't be a bad thing to have more of. RNG is nice until you're a nasty outlier.

Could then mix in a rare chance that they drop a weapon that is loot stage appropriate. So sometimes killing bandits gets you the gear you're after. They wouldn't be loot pinatas, but they could become a solid replacement for just running POIs for loot.

I'd also prefer a step toward realism there that the weapon the bandit drops reflects the weapon that they used. Both in type (the machinegunner you just killed doesn't drop a pistol), but also in tier and quality.

 

[Sapient6]

While I'm wishing for ponies: they should also drop ammo appropriate for the weapon they drop.

I think concerns about ammo overabundance from bandits dropping ammo ought to be mitigated by the player feeling the need to use firearms to deal with the bandits. Or to put it another way, bandits done right would be tough enough that only players that are built for pure melee would stick to melee when fighting them in significant enough numbers for ammo drops to matter.

 

[Kyoji]

There might be a way to limit loot without losing realism. For example, if you only got parts or broken gear from bandits most of the time.
Imagine that you kill a bandit with an AK-47, but you only get a completely broken AK-47 that cannot be repaired. You could only scrap it for parts.

A neat idea, but how important is it that it's worth that level of development though. If they implemented parts quality back into the game then sure it wouldn't be hard to do but just doing what is essentially parts for just bandits doesn't seem as worthwhile. In an ideal world they bring back parts quality and then do this for bandits, but that is likely just my personal wishlist.

I'd be fine with any of the following:
- Completely realistic drops, but limiting most bandits to pipe tier; nothing's saying the bandos need to be superior to us, just dangerous in their own way (distinct from zombies). All the pipe loot you want, but who wants it .. ? (maybe add bandit gear that is statwise roughly the Primitive Set but looks more menacing)
- Dropping thematic loot on rare occasion. Like a 5% chance of getting that lever action.
- Dropping dysfunctional weapons; not a fan myself, once I've killed a couple the fact that the weapon broke exactly as I killed the mob starts grating me more than getting no drops at all. But it'd be .. "something".
- Dropping random stuff, like the contents of the yellow bag; not sure if I care if they drop the "realistic" type of ammo, it's random anyway. (and maybe don't drop books unless you're implying they're too stupid to read... )
- Dropping nothing.. only a tad worse than any of the above IMO, and a whole lot easier to balance

Bandits could be protecting various loot containers so it's not the pipe weapons you want but the caches they protect. Also, ranged enemies would invariably be tougher than melee ones IMO.

I agree that realism and balance is a hard thing to pull off and I think it's best to go with a "best we can do" approach leaning on the side of balance.

While I'm wishing for ponies: they should also drop ammo appropriate for the weapon they drop.

I think concerns about ammo overabundance from bandits dropping ammo ought to be mitigated by the player feeling the need to use firearms to deal with the bandits. Or to put it another way, bandits done right would be tough enough that only players that are built for pure melee would stick to melee when fighting them in significant enough numbers for ammo drops to matter.

They could tie loot bags in with specific groups of enemies such as shotgun T0 and have loot containers for each tier thereafter.

 

[BFT2020]

single player where most people turn on god mode.

Please tell me how you came up with that fact?

Or is this just another attempt to downplay a portion of the gaming base by implying that they just cheat their way through the game in order to boost your PvP gaming base?

 

[ProlificPoultry]

I'm not sure what you expect TFP to do with this post. Simply rattling off a list of things you don't like is not feedback. It's got "old man yelling at the sky" vibes.

Storms: The game BADLY needed the environment to be more varied and dangerous. The first iteration wasn't great. But they have heard the ACTUAL feedback and are making improvements.
Clothing and Armor: While some bonuses still need to be balanced, the biggest complaint with the new armor system was that players wanted more control over the cosmetic aspect-what you look like. 2.0 fixed that and they've discussed additional changes that will allow more variety to player looks.
Crafting: How exactly has it been butchered? You can't just say that and expect anyone to know what you're talking about.
Jars: GTFO with jars. Their old implementation was stupid and completely made water a non-issue. I don't mind jars being back in the game, but they need to not stack, not be craftable, and be super rare. I've seen other suggestions that jars should be THE container in the game, meaning they should be used in pretty much any recipe where the item needs be stored in some type of vessel (all drinks, food items like stews, glue, etc)
Gatekeeping: Again, you need to explain yourself. What gatekeeping are you talking about? Biome Progression? Trader Progression? Leveling? Crafting? That can mean so many things.

They did not hear the actual feedback in their own town hall meeting. Completely ignored the chat and didn’t really change the core of the update with the stupid smoothies and badges. Again, you go into the biome, do these challenges and instead of a badge you get the reflavored png gear. Literally they don’t even have models. I agree that they took steps in the right direction but it feels like they’ve not given much effort for something that was 6 months late on arrival.

And where did you get this biggest complaint about the clothing/ armor? The biggest complaint is that they removed clothing and temperature survival and replaced it with these outfits that have no actual bearing on environmental survival. It’s especially egregious when alpha 17 and earlier had debuffs for being cold and hot besides food/water consumption. They had a functioning system that they just needed to tweak to improve but instead in classic fun pimps fashion they completely removed it.

Crafting is completely stupid now with the magazines. They make no sense and it’s actually just completely rng based now. Earlier versions still encouraged looting to get schematics and alpha 16’s learn by doing/ hybrid perk system still let you progress your crafting while combating spam crafting. It’s honestly the one example of the devs experimenting and trying to tweak a system. Every other time they just removed or nerfed stuff.

While agree that jars kind of invalidated water survival I’ll say that it also influenced where you built your base because you wanted to be near a water source to fill them. Now you can build your base anywhere and water survival isn’t harder. It’s just more tedious and different. Literally I don’t need to think about water past day 4 so that’s just another system that changed just to change ineffectually.

All of the above for this last one I think is what they meant

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 11:54 AM

They make mods for that

True as that is, isn’t that sad? The modders gotta do what the devs don’t or just do it better? And they can’t admit when they take ideas from modders and implement them in subpar ways

 

[Kyoji]

They did not hear the actual feedback in their own town hall meeting. Completely ignored the chat and didn’t really change the core of the update with the stupid smoothies and badges.

They had the meeting in the first place so that is them listening. Also the core complaint was forced progression and unrealistic smoothies and badges which was all changed.

Again, you go into the biome, do these challenges and instead of a badge you get the reflavored png gear. Literally they don’t even have models. I agree that they took steps in the right direction but it feels like they’ve not given much effort for something that was 6 months late on arrival.

Why would you want a gas mask covering your armored helmet? That would look stupid. They also made the changes in weeks. It will take longer for polish.

And where did you get this biggest complaint about the clothing/ armor? The biggest complaint is that they removed clothing and temperature survival and replaced it with these outfits that have no actual bearing on environmental survival. It’s especially egregious when alpha 17 and earlier had debuffs for being cold and hot besides food/water consumption. They had a functioning system that they just needed to tweak to improve but instead in classic fun pimps fashion they completely removed it.

They removed it because they removed clothing as they redid armor. I agree that the changes are a step in the wrong direction though and the magical armor is worse than the clothing we had before. They could have fixed clipping just like how you can wear mismatched armor sets.

So yes a step forward and seven steps backwards.

Crafting is completely stupid now with the magazines. They make no sense and it’s actually just completely rng based now. Earlier versions still encouraged looting to get schematics and alpha 16’s learn by doing/ hybrid perk system still let you progress your crafting while combating spam crafting. It’s honestly the one example of the devs experimenting and trying to tweak a system. Every other time they just removed or nerfed stuff.

This has been the case for a long time. Magazines are largely fine and makes perfect sense. Now is a proper LBD system better? Perhaps, but what we have now isn't terrible.

I agree that parts quality and schematics are a huge loss and the new system is worse.

While agree that jars kind of invalidated water survival I’ll say that it also influenced where you built your base because you wanted to be near a water source to fill them. Now you can build your base anywhere and water survival isn’t harder. It’s just more tedious and different. Literally I don’t need to think about water past day 4 so that’s just another system that changed just to change ineffectually.

Jars didn't invalidate water survival it invalidated rivers and lakes. Water wasn't hard to come by then as it isn't now. Also finding water wasn't easier but time consuming. They are not the same. There is no difficulty in building near water, just inconveniences.

True as that is, isn’t that sad? The modders gotta do what the devs don’t or just do it better? And they can’t admit when they take ideas from modders and implement them in subpar ways

For some more niche things then yes. For major game systems that are beloved by a large portion of the player base then sure it should be incorporated into the base game. Now what those are is up to debate.

You have a lot of good points but I disagree about some of the finer details.

 

[plzkthxbye]

where you built your base because you wanted to be near a water source to fill them.

Are you not familiar with a bucket? You can fill a bucket at any water source, and then pour that water source into certain block shapes. Have one at your base, and you will have an unlimited source from which to fill jars.

 

[Noxom]

I don't agree, the jars don't need balance, it's just water,

The clothes were better than the magic armor.

The temperature was poorly done and weird at times, but better than nothing.

The gore blocks was fun and more immersive than a yellow bag, it's your opinion if it's monotonous or tedious, for me monotonous is mining 30 min to get materials, a couple of minutes cleaning bodies is nothing.

The wellness mechanic was good and rewarded you for cooking better food, and penalized you if you don't watch your hunger and thirst, or if you die.

Then you can argue about tastes, but there are things that were better than now.

I'm not saying that the old versions are better, just the systems I mentioned.

And other systems that have not been mentioned such as.
The system of cultivation with hoe and fertilizer.

Now those systems are more simplified, which doesn't make them better.

Water needed balance, it was tied to empty jars and unlimited harvesting. It's a main resource in the game and it shouldn't be something convenient to stockpile. Other resources have gear/skills that increase yields and stamina efficiency. Water is a resource for thirst and crafting, it's just as important as any other resource. Walking up to a river filling massive amounts of jars was bogus and had no nuances. Trying to balance around the accumulation of jars, or making a bunch of restrictions/changes to justify it would be worse than the solution we got. Water has more value, and it has at least SOME game nuance with dew collectors/mods/heat.

The clothes were not better. Most of them were inferior choices which gave them almost no value. The appearances had clipping issues and a lot of it looked goofy. People complain that there's only cloth scrap in loot now, when 99% of clothing drops were only worth scrap, especially if you already found a set of BDU. All they did was remove a redundant step of scrapping each piece. There was what, 3 main jackets you could wear that always went over your other clothes? Gothic pants looked cool. Every character i made always ended up looking the same, maybe except for dyes. Now there's a slot for head, upper body, lower body and boots. Each slot has a dozen distinctly different looks, and they can all be mismatched. There's way more combinations for appearances than there used to be, DISTINCT appearances and not looking like a hobo that escaped the circus. There's nothing wrong with the armors having magic stats in a video game, get over it.

The gore blocks was a neat idea, but it was janky as hell. Immersive is a funny word to use. Killing a bunch of zombies and watching them turn into a weird diamond of meat was jarring and silly. I get what they were going for, but not every idea can make the cut. Looting zombie corpses isn't related. It's not my opinion that it's monotonous. Time is important in 7Days, and the devs clearly don't want players to be wasting tons of time doing busywork nonsense. Spending several minutes looting dozens of bodies for pittance isn't worth the squeeze. Loot bags are very video-gamey, but i love them and it's always fun to see them appear. It makes killing zombies more rewarding.

"Then you can argue about tastes, but there are things that were better than now." I can't agree with you at all here. I saw the older systems as stepping stones, primitive, rough drafts, some were placeholders and store assets. I genuinely don't believe there are any old systems that are objectively better than the new ones, and i've yet to see any convincing arguments anywhere.

 

[haskhane]

When we talk about the return of jars or other immersion mechanics, we are not saying that we want to remove collectors,
but a collector that brings back zombies doesn't make sense.
Whether it's jars or collectors, or the good old mechanics like 4-piece weapons up to 600, progression to skill,
being able to gradually improve vehicles to 600, having real weather and storms done properly without magic,
zombies that are entertaining beyond visuals or health bags.
The community is divided, even angry, and this issue, the Fun Pimps must finally be able to balance the game and that we stand behind them,
but no, we feel betrayed, they have corrupted the game.
We test the alphas, we know the strengths and weaknesses of the game, but many will turn to other games because we have lost hope in these developers who are unable to respect the community of old console and PC players.

 

[Kyoji]

The clothes were not better. Most of them were inferior choices which gave them almost no value. The appearances had clipping issues and a lot of it looked goofy. People complain that there's only cloth scrap in loot now, when 99% of clothing drops were only worth scrap, especially if you already found a set of BDU. All they did was remove a redundant step of scrapping each piece. There was what, 3 main jackets you could wear that always went over your other clothes? Gothic pants looked cool. Every character i made always ended up looking the same, maybe except for dyes. Now there's a slot for head, upper body, lower body and boots. Each slot has a dozen distinctly different looks, and they can all be mismatched. There's way more combinations for appearances than there used to be, DISTINCT appearances and not looking like a hobo that escaped the circus. There's nothing wrong with the armors having magic stats in a video game, get over it.

That is like saying weapons are useless because once you find one there is no need to get more.

With stats being random generally you could still find better numbers for a while.

The clipping issues could have been fixed just as they fixed it for armor mix and matching.

I think armor would be better as skins just like the DLC armor.

I don't think magic armor is good for the game.

Looting zombie corpses isn't related. It's not my opinion that it's monotonous. Time is important in 7Days, and the devs clearly don't want players to be wasting tons of time doing busywork nonsense. Spending several minutes looting dozens of bodies for pittance isn't worth the squeeze. Loot bags are very video-gamey, but i love them and it's always fun to see them appear. It makes killing zombies more rewarding.

It would have been nice to have a visual indicator for a corpse you could loot and reduce the amount of corpses to that of bags.

"Then you can argue about tastes, but there are things that were better than now." I can't agree with you at all here. I saw the older systems as stepping stones, primitive, rough drafts, some were placeholders and store assets. I genuinely don't believe there are any old systems that are objectively better than the new ones, and i've yet to see any convincing arguments anywhere.

Some of that may just be your preference as clearly a lot of others find some older systems better. It's kind of why we have had almost every major YouTuber and a lot of people on steam, reddit and the forums saying as much.

Darker nights and parts quality are two that are easy for me to get behind as an example.

 

[grz__]

Water needed balance, it was tied to empty jars and unlimited harvesting. It's a main resource in the game and it shouldn't be something convenient to stockpile. Other resources have gear/skills that increase yields and stamina efficiency. Water is a resource for thirst and crafting, it's just as important as any other resource. Walking up to a river filling massive amounts of jars was bogus and had no nuances. Trying to balance around the accumulation of jars, or making a bunch of restrictions/changes to justify it would be worse than the solution we got. Water has more value, and it has at least SOME game nuance with dew collectors/mods/heat.

The clothes were not better. Most of them were inferior choices which gave them almost no value. The appearances had clipping issues and a lot of it looked goofy. People complain that there's only cloth scrap in loot now, when 99% of clothing drops were only worth scrap, especially if you already found a set of BDU. All they did was remove a redundant step of scrapping each piece. There was what, 3 main jackets you could wear that always went over your other clothes? Gothic pants looked cool. Every character i made always ended up looking the same, maybe except for dyes. Now there's a slot for head, upper body, lower body and boots. Each slot has a dozen distinctly different looks, and they can all be mismatched. There's way more combinations for appearances than there used to be, DISTINCT appearances and not looking like a hobo that escaped the circus. There's nothing wrong with the armors having magic stats in a video game, get over it.

The collectors we have now don't make water scarcer or harder to obtain. I remember when I started playing 1.0, I had a farm of collectors on the roof of a building. I could agree with your argument that water is linked to other recipes and it shouldn't be easy to have unlimited amounts, but there's always another limiting factor. For example, do you want to make explosive bolts? Well, water wasn't a problem for glue, but you still need gunpowder. Do you want yuca juice? Well, you need to grow it and wait to harvest it, Anyway, I don't think the current system is bad, it's just that the previous one worked perfectly well and didn't need anything else.

Clothing

The clothes looked bad because the models were old. If they had continued to update the clothes, they would look much better with the current graphics. Regarding what you said about most of the clothes being junk to be scrapped because you already have better clothes, well, I think you've already been given a good argument. It's the same as all the other inferior items you find. If TFP had continued updating and adding more clothes, it would be better and there would be more variety than there is now. Regarding magical armor, I'm not the only one who doesn't like having magical properties because in many cases it ruins the experience and the difficulty. It's a matter of taste. For me, armor is just that, a shield that protects you from harm and perhaps from the temperature. It's not that the clothes are worse. The only good thing I get out of the armor is that some of it looks really good, that's all.

The gore blocks was a neat idea, but it was janky as hell. Immersive is a funny word to use. Killing a bunch of zombies and watching them turn into a weird diamond of meat was jarring and silly. I get what they were going for, but not every idea can make the cut. Looting zombie corpses isn't related. It's not my opinion that it's monotonous. Time is important in 7Days, and the devs clearly don't want players to be wasting tons of time doing busywork nonsense. Spending several minutes looting dozens of bodies for pittance isn't worth the squeeze. Loot bags are very video-gamey, but i love them and it's always fun to see them appear. It makes killing zombies more rewarding.

gore blocks

I'm referring to the gore blocks from alpha 15 16, in the form of bodies, not the old ones. And yes, immersion is important in this type of game, otherwise why not confetti come out of zombies instead of blood? It's funny that looting corpses is a pointless waste of time, but looting 40 dew collectors isn't, and mining for 20 or 30 minutes to get a ridiculous amount of material isn't either, right? Crafting a weapon and having to wait 15 minutes isn't? It's practically the same as with loot bags. But more fake and less immersive.

"Then you can argue about tastes, but there are things that were better than now." I can't agree with you at all here. I saw the older systems as stepping stones, primitive, rough drafts, some were placeholders and store assets. I genuinely don't believe there are any old systems that are objectively better than the new ones, and i've yet to see any convincing arguments anywhere.

Well, that's your opinion, and I respect it, but I don't share it.

An example of a better system than the current one is plant cultivation. It's much more simplified now. Before, you could prepare the soil, fertilize it, and it turned out much better than it does now. You could simply plant seeds around the world, just for decoration. Now you have to put in a block that looks artificial and doesn't look good in the terrain. You can't plant seeds around the world without these blocks. There are other examples, such as weapon parts or the 600 quality levels, level degradation, etc. Now it's more simplified, but in many cases, simplifying doesn't make it better, not at all.

 

[ALEXZANDER]

An example of a better system than the current one is plant cultivation. It's much more simplified now. Before, you could prepare the soil, fertilize it, and it turned out much better than it does now. You could simply plant seeds around the world, just for decoration. Now you have to put in a block that looks artificial and doesn't look good in the terrain. You can't plant seeds around the world without these blocks. There are other examples, such as weapon parts or the 600 quality levels, level degradation, etc. Now it's more simplified, but in many cases, simplifying doesn't make it better, not at all.

Agree