Realism, Immersion In a Fantasy World.

Lax said:
So I'm wondering how much of the gameplay are people expecting to be rooted in "realism" while its ok for the rest of it to be pure fantasy. 50/50? 80/20?
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As long as the game is consistent in itself, that's enough for me. Immersion is something I've never really understood. I'm a guy who sits in front of the computer and presses buttons. Why should I think of myself as a survivor or a warrior? That doesn't make sense to me.
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Roland said:
The smoothies and badges were pretty consistent with already established rules of the universe but they were silly and irreverent implementations of something a lot of people wanted TFP to treat seriously.
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I would argue that they are a bit over the top, but yes, if there are gloves that reduce a vehicle's fuel consumption, why not a drink that protects you from smoke inhalation?
 
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Roland said:
but they were silly and irreverent implementations of something a lot of people wanted TFP to treat seriously.
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Yeh; using myself as an example, I don't mind silliness in things like store names, or Rekt's vaseline falling out of his pocket just to show the name. But I dislike the smoothies and hate the badges. So, there's levels to that.

To implement a mechanic as a mockery of itself, that's an insult to the player who likes that type of a mechanic. The Joke Mod has confetti explosions when you kill a zed; the smoothies are like taking those and applying them to head explosions, versus the lovingly crafted head explosions we have now - those took some serious effort, someone in the dev team absolutely likes those. "Squeee!" "Squeee!"

Mechanically does the same thing, but any respect for the world / game is out the window.
 
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EvilPolygons said:
There are currently over 5,000 nukes (at least) in the Russian nuclear stockpile. That's enough to "aggressively target" every state in the US 50 times over. Given the population of Arizona, it would only take 2 or 3 warheads from an ICBM (which typically carry up to 12) to kill almost everyone in the state since nearly everyone lives in and around Phoenix and Tucson. So yeah...nuclear war would suck pretty bad.
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There is little point in attacking cities. It would be more logical to attack San Manuel, where copper is mined, and also the water supply system, since the state is in the desert.
 
theFlu said:
To implement a mechanic as a mockery of itself, that's an insult to the player who likes that type of a mechanic.
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It can understandably be interpreted that way, but I like that type of mechanic and the silliness of the implementation didn't bother me at all. Hell, from my point of view the head explosions are a silly implementation. It is funny every time. Especially the continuing hiss of blood spurting out of a freshly bashed-off zombie face.

I was and am much more bothered by the biome gear being costless once acquired. Making them individual mods for each biome that take up specific armor slots is something I'd vastly prefer, as it would add some amount of ongoing cost. Not much, but more than zero.
 
Sapient6 said:
Hell, from my point of view the head explosions are a silly implementation. It is funny every time. Especially the continuing hiss of blood spurting out of a freshly bashed-off zombie face.
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Yeh, it's a funny implementation, but it errs in the Gore direction, to go overboard and make it funny. The confetti replacement would feel similar to the magic potions to me; "yes we see what you are trying to do, but you just gave up, didn't you?" :)

Sapient6 said:
I was and am much more bothered by the biome gear being costless once acquired.
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I was kinda thinking that having to equip new filters into your hazmat masks would be nice. Not sure of the other pieces, cool shades aren't too likely to take more than zed damage.. maybe have the set be reloaded with some water.

And I would prefer having to swap them - especially with the 2.3 exp changes, where you don't actually Need them anymore, just take shelter if you mess up.
 
Vaeliorin said:
As Arther C. Clarke said,

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."​

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Yeah. When it comes right down to it, Swords and Sorcery is Science Fiction.

One could say that Star Wars is a good example of that, but I think the best example is Dragonriders of Pern.
 
plzkthxbye said:
How about being able to revive after death? To me, that is perhaps the most immersion breaking ability.
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Well, I play permadeath, so..
But I don't think that would fit this game as a mandatory or even a default feature. It's way too slow, glitchy by design (no point in checking your corners with the GM spawns, pain mechanic is hidden etc etc), and it would be no fun as a multiplayer, one guy would be permanently level 1.
 
Lax said:
Do you think some are attempting to apply "real world" realism to this fantasy world? And if so, is that a wise thing? Acceptable?
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In many (maybe most) cases, I don't think it's necessary.

This game seems to be many different things to many different people. For many people, 7DTD seems to be a game people play exclusively with others, on multiplayer servers, and it's about constantly having things that crack them up. Getting into silly situations with friends, dying lots of times, and just mindlessly bashing zombie skulls.

My time in the game is played solo, single player, almost exclusively. I pretty much always play permadeath too (especially in the earlier stages of the game - if I'm 100 hours into a playthrough, and I want to try something really risky, bordering on dumb, I may allow myself to continue if I die doing that). So, for me, the primary point of immersion is the risk involved. I want to survive at all costs - dying is not an option. I'm much more combat and action focused, though I really do enjoy exploration as well. I don't care as much about having very realistic survival elements, at least with regard to the environment. I like the zombies to be my primary threat.
 
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@8_Hussars had a very good description of realism, immersion, internal game logic, suspension of disbelief. All 4 are important and all 4 are interconnected. The problem is how they're connected differ per person.

So for example, it is unrealistic to carry 10 tons of concrete, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief for the sake of gameplay.
It is unrealistic not to be able to collect water from a lake, I have a hard time suspending my disbelief of that and it therefore affects my immersion.

But like I said, everyone differs on what compromises to logic or realism they're willing to make, which leads to the various disagreements we see here all the time.

The truth is that no one is right or wrong (as much as we may think we are), its all a matter of opinion.
 
Zombies being in closets waiting for players is one of the things I truly hate about this game, or ceilings where there is no sensible explanation to how they got there given there are no other openings, this is just very inconsistent and doesn't quite sell to me given that they can wreck concrete with their bare hands. I know this is supposed to add a bit of a scary moment but once you've seen it a few times its just stupid.
 
ZehMatt said:
Zombies being in closets waiting for players is one of the things I truly hate about this game, or ceilings where there is no sensible explanation to how they got there given there are no other openings, this is just very inconsistent and doesn't quite sell to me given that they can wreck concrete with their bare hands. I know this is supposed to add a bit of a scary moment but once you've seen it a few times its just stupid.
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Well, it's totally plausible that people could get infected and die while hiding in a closet. So I have less issue with that.

But it's hard to explain how half a dozen people managed to get up into a drop ceiling that can barely support the weight of a single fat raccoon. It's lazy design, tbh. However it's not like TFP are the only ones who do that -- there are probably hundreds of POIs made by the community that include those goofy ceiling ambushes, too.
 
Suxar said:
There is little point in attacking cities. It would be more logical to attack San Manuel, where copper is mined, and also the water supply system, since the state is in the desert.
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City-killer nukes are designed to kill cities and inflict civilian casualties. That's their purpose. They are terror weapons for use in a total war scenario which will hopefully never happen.

In a full-blown nuclear exchange, every single major city in the US and Russia would be annihilated. The doctrine of "Mutually-Assured Destruction" means that, in the end, no one can "win" a nuclear war. Everyone loses.

You're correct that there is no real "logic" in any of this. But humans are irrational, and so the infamous Doomsday Clock maintained by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists currently sits at 89 seconds to midnight.
 
Kalen said:
Strange game, the only winning move is not to play
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Roland said:
I think part of it is how much it matters to someone that the game takes itself seriously or not. The Fun Pimps make choices for humor or parody a lot of times such as paint being in the Sham recipe or the names of businesses. When TFP implements something to be funny or silly it’s going to offend the sensibilities of those who would rather that implementation be serious and gritty and not so juvenile.

The smoothies and badges were pretty consistent with already established rules of the universe but they were silly and irreverent implementations of something a lot of people wanted TFP to treat seriously.
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Petition to bring back Sexual Tyrannosaurus
 
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