Who wants Alpha 11 as the Sandbox Version

[YourMirror]

It´s a private MP coop game and we only play when all of us are here. There is no level difference besides me and one other who use a sledgehammer.

Ah yes. Those times when you were still playing. You should start talking in the past though. One might think you just keep playing but say you don't.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Ah yes. Those times when you were still playing. You should start talking in the past though. One might think you just keep playing but say you don't.

That´s because i host the game. I myself am playing FO76 meanwhile. I don´t let my friends down in the middle of a playtrough. Why do you even care that much to go off topic?

 

[theFlu]

Mailboxes simply give too much magazines without any real danger. That is maybe by design so someone playing predominantly as a miner can still get enough magazines, but it makes for a bad balance for everone else. Or it simply has one or more balancing steps missing.

The idea bubbled in my head for a bit; I don't think mailboxes really need a nerf. Even before, you could get mags fast, but you wouldn't get mats; the paper boy runs would mostly net the skill book series. A weird and boring min/max at worst, caveat emptor.

But now with Bookworm in the game, I'm thinking the paper boy run is superseded with general loot hunting .. all the containers are half a mailbox. I'd bet that's the books min/max route from now on. Focus on book stores, and loot All the garbage. A little more mats, faster books, a little more zed interacting.

 

[Treb]

I mean yeah, that's exactly it. When I play a game, any game, I always try to find the most efficient way to play. Now I realize thats a "me" problem, but I strongly suspect that there are more people who play that way than there are that play your way. I envy that you can ignore the systems and do whatever you want, but I find it annoying that if I want to play a certain way, baton and shotgun for example, I have to intentionally hurt my overall progression to do so. I think that the fact that it wasn't always that way makes it even harder to accept.

You must find most RPG games very frustrating then because the majority have that kind of branched progression.

 

[Kalen]

You must find most RPG games very frustrating then because the majority have that kind of branched progression.

Nope, I love RPGs

 

[Treb]

Nope, I love RPGs

But they also almost all have an optimal path that limits what you can do.

 

[Kalen]

But they also almost all have an optimal path that limits what you can do.

Not sure what to tell you. In this game, I find their implementation of specific weapons tied to attributes to be very annoying. As I indicated, maybe because it wasn't always that way.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Not sure what to tell you. In this game, I find their implementation of specific weapons tied to attributes to be very annoying. As I indicated, maybe because it wasn't always that way.

I find it that way, too, and wasn't around when it was otherwise. What's my excuse?

It's always suggested that questions about this or that being removed or replaced is probably because it wasn't always this way, echoing the "nostalgia" excuse of both TFP and assorted community members for dismissing the concerns of those who've objected to the dumbing down and superficilization of the game over the years.

Well, I can assure you it's not nostalgia. It's quote obviously been turned from a template survival game into a generic looter shooter and the superficilizarion continues with the removal of a gear-based system to deal with environmental effects (but for, possibly, temperature) in favor of icons that remove biome effects altogether anyway, making you wonder why they were ever added in the first place.

 

[meganoth]

Not so much to change the balance. In the village I highlighted on the Navezgane map, there are 7 mailboxes and the same number of houses. From mailboxes you can get 4-9 magazines/books. But in the houses themselves you can find another 20-30. Moreover, in a week you will be able to get more magazines from the houses, but not from the mailboxes.View attachment 36231

But you can loot all the mailboxes in about 1 minute, but to find every book container in all houses you need to go through all rooms, kill all zombies and that would take (at appropriate difficulty) a whole in-game day (me as agi-stealth player more like 2 days ((yes, I am slow)) ).

And if you really want to come back to that a week later (in case you don't want to find new locations to loot what people normally do) you have to fight the same zombies again for only part of the loot (if mailboxes are not refilled, so are other containers in the house, a mailbox is part of a POI)

If I loot POIs (with mailboxes) I get approximately the right amount of magazines to be in line with loot/trader progression, if I would run through a normal (RWG) town or even city and loot all mailboxes I would be ahead. Not by a mile, but the ease and speed with which they can be looted them makes them a prime target for anyone. It is no accident that "looting mailboxes" is a much used synonym for "looking for magazines"

 

[Suxar]

But you can loot all the mailboxes in about 1 minute, but to find every book container in all houses you need to go through all rooms, kill all zombies and that would take (at appropriate difficulty) a whole in-game day (me as agi-stealth player more like 2 days ((yes, I am slow)) ).

Yeah, with the brass knuckles it took about a game day. There are POIs of the first and second levels. But besides the magazines I got a lot of other stuff, including consumables for building the Dew Collector and Farm Plot.

(if mailboxes are not refilled, so are other containers in the house, a mailbox is part of a POI)

But here you are a little mistaken. Since version 1.0 we have 2 types of loot containers:
1 - containers that disappear or change appearance after being emptied
2 - containers that do not change.

In the first type of container the loot does not update, and in the second it appears again. The same kitchen cabinets will be full in a week and I will be able to find magazines in them. But mailboxes, like piles of garbage, will not be restored.

It is no accident that "looting mailboxes" is a much used synonym for "looking for magazines"

Only this is a one-time activity, for the reason I described above. Therefore, despite the high speed of learning at the beginning, by the middle of the game you will have exactly the same, since further progress will slow down a little. And long trips at the beginning of the game without transport significantly lengthen the game.

 

[meganoth]

Yeah, with the brass knuckles it took about a game day. There are POIs of the first and second levels. But besides the magazines I got a lot of other stuff, including consumables for building the Dew Collector and Farm Plot.

Yes, but I was talking about magazine/crafting balance. It is nice to find additonal stuff, but it also means even more time needed for inventory management.

But here you are a little mistaken. Since version 1.0 we have 2 types of loot containers:
1 - containers that disappear or change appearance after being emptied
2 - containers that do not change.

In the first type of container the loot does not update, and in the second it appears again. The same kitchen cabinets will be full in a week and I will be able to find magazines in them. But mailboxes, like piles of garbage, will not be restored.

Wait. That was exactly what I said. There are two types of containers. Important is that the zombies are containers of the second type

So where I am mistaken?

Only this is a one-time activity, for the reason I described above. Therefore, despite the high speed of learning at the beginning, by the middle of the game you will have exactly the same, since further progress will slow down a little. And long trips at the beginning of the game without transport significantly lengthen the game.

I can't speak from authority as I don't do mailbox-hunting. I can only guess how many mailboxes are around and guess at the impact. And there are quite a few cities and towns in a 8k random map and you will get transport relatively early in the game. With a bike you can easily farm the whole forest in early game, and then with the minibike there are already no limits.

It may well be that I am wrong though and people doing mailbox-runs are lying to themselves on the impact. Or that it doesn't matter much as this may be some sandbox alternative you can do in this game that doesn't need a careful balance.

 

[Suxar]

And there are quite a few cities and towns in a 8k random map and you will get transport relatively early in the game. With a bike you can easily farm the whole forest in early game, and then with the minibike there are already no limits.

Everything is relative. Riding to the city and back by bike will take quite a bit of time. A minibike is not much help either. Of course, gasoline drops from car dismantling, but there is not much of it. And you can't run straight into the desert these days. If you go to another city, it is better to look for POIs with a lot of bookcases: a kindergarten, a school, a bookstore, some residential buildings. And in mailboxes now you can often find books, not magazines. Either they fixed something, or I am just lucky.

It seems to me that at the moment the most effective way to get magazines is the merchant's quests. A set of magazines often appears as a reward, and these are 3 types of magazines with 2 units of each.

 

[Vaeliorin]

If I loot POIs (with mailboxes) I get approximately the right amount of magazines to be in line with loot/trader progression, if I would run through a normal (RWG) town or even city and loot all mailboxes I would be ahead. Not by a mile, but the ease and speed with which they can be looted them makes them a prime target for anyone. It is no accident that "looting mailboxes" is a much used synonym for "looking for magazines"

I don't run around looting mailboxes specifically (though I'll open any that I pass by while traveling) and I usually have q6 Steel Tools while stone tools are all that's dropping. Q6 T3 melee weapon before T2 starts dropping regularly (or at all), etc. Probably would be the same for ranged weapons if I ever specced into them early.

Granted, I don't really move biomes (burnt is ugly, spitters and frostclaws are anoying), so no biome loot bonuses (until maybe I unlock the Wasteland.)

 

[BFT2020]

Is that even a thing...? Unless doing a challenge run of some type, like a D1 T5; I just equip upgrades as they come and the game doesn't really throw anything at me that I'd need to think about.

I have gone late into BM with only basic weapons. In those cases, I would be lucky to have a 9mm or a hunting knife. And you can adjust the game settings without mods to increase difficulty without speeding up progression - zombie run speed, shorter days, increase zombie BM count to force the game to scale up the zombies if you exceed the hard cap of 30 zombies max, increase zombie block damage....

Also remember that I like to add some custom mods that while make small changes to the code, have a big impact on playability. Removing the loot bonuses from biomes makes a big impact (aka v2.0 before they brought them back).

But I believe I have been very clear that I have an unique playstyle over the many posts I have made that I know is probably far from the majority playstyles out there. It's the main reason that many features that TFP has released since A18 that I have enjoyed while others have hated (removal of jars, magazines for crafting, biome specific traders, storms).

 

[BFT2020]

@BFT2020 You play SP right? In MP things are a bit different. The gamestage increases the faster the more people you have in your party. When you play with 4-5 people you often can´t ignore them or you will fall behind the enemies very quick. We need steel production on day 14. Otherwise demos will tear down our base on day 21.

Now with that stupid sledgehammer book it´s even worse. I was 8 levels ahead on day 14. And we always played together. If one had to stop we all stopped playing.

Yes, I try to be clear that I play SP so that everyone understands that my viewpoint is based on that.

That is one thing I don't like about MP for 7 days to die (from what everyone describes in the forums since I don't play MP) - the fast evolving horde spawns that see demos show up so soon.

 

[theFlu]

Also remember that I like to add some custom mods that while make small changes to the code, have a big impact on playability.

So, basically challenge runs But with that in mind, it's sorta even more confusing:

First you described other players wanting to loot mailboxes for progress.

Then you made a comment about your slower progress; which sounded like you're "choosing not to loot mailboxes, since you're already up to the task".
But now you're saying you'd be lucky having even poor weapons; which means you often feel like you're behind the curve, while still not looting mailboxes..?

Is this some subvariant of masochism, or do you just hate the mailboxes?

 

[BFT2020]

So, basically challenge runs But with that in mind, it's sorta even more confusing:

First you described other players wanting to loot mailboxes for progress.

Then you made a comment about your slower progress; which sounded like you're "choosing not to loot mailboxes, since you're already up to the task".
But now you're saying you'd be lucky having even poor weapons; which means you often feel like you're behind the curve, while still not looting mailboxes..?

Is this some subvariant of masochism, or do you just hate the mailboxes?

I don't feel like I am behind because I never feel like I have to be "At Point A by Time X" in the game. So if I just have pipe pistols and a maybe a T1 pistol for Day X BM, I don't sweat it. I build my horde base defense to account for it.

I also never said I don't loot mailboxes, I just don't go out of my way to loot them. I don't drive every 10 feet to stop and open one up. I just drive to the location where I am going (either via a mission or when I passed a POI earlier that I wanted to loot later). I drive from my base to the other side of the town / city I am at, pass all the mailboxes that I haven't searched, do the POI, then drive all the way back to my base still not touching those mailboxes.

What some people call challenge runs is simply my way of playing this game every time. I am like that scene in Apollo 13 where they dump a bunch of items on the table that the astronauts have and the NASA engineers have to come up with a solution for the CO2 buildup issue. I don't feel driven that I have to get X by Day Y, eventually I want to get that item; but not driven to find crafting magazines to be able to build it.

 

[theFlu]

I don't drive every 10 feet to stop and open one up.

You don't stop to pick up free progress, roughly equates to "you're not worried about your progress". Which is where we kinda agree, the progress isn't that important for any measure of "success". I just, you know, do stop; they're there, they're meant to be looted.

Why I brought up "challenge runs" is simple; you're choosing to play the game in one way - ignoring the progress being offered. While stating that the problem with mailboxes is that some people like to loot them ..? As a person who does like to loot them, that kinda made me curious.

I dunno; is the implication that mailboxes shouldn't be a thing, because you enjoy the slower progress? The game may well be better with a slower progress; for now I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying.