PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

Syphon583 said:
I could be mistaken because I only watched to Town Hall once, but from memory, they talked about these items as "future" additions. I did not get the impression that they were slated for 2.x. The only things I'm expecting are the specific changes to the new 2.0 features (Biome Progression and Storms).
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Tbh I hope 2.0 goes up to like 2.5 or even 6 because I want this too be the best version yet.

If it gets everything im hoping for
  • Coops and bee farms
  • Updated storms
  • Temperature/weather survival
  • New zombie models (i really didnt mind the them aside from the Frostclaw)
  • Hopefully if joel talked about. Jars coming back in a way
  • The weather protection and possible clothing (not the way i want it back but oh well
I think it will be the best version yet aside from A16
 
Adam the Waster said:
  • Hopefully if joel talked about. Jars coming back in a way
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I know this is a controversial topic, but I personally don't want jars to come back. At least not in the way they were in the game before. TFP is right: water was such a non-issue in the game. It's it that big of a hurdle now? No, but it does take effort, resources and time and it isn't meant to be a constant struggle. Like with all things, you should be able to find sustainable solutions and the dew collector works (regardless of how unrealistic the implementation is).

I do like the solution some overhaul mods have - let the player fill a container from typical water sources, whether that be a faucet, water jug or natural body of water. I would vastly reduce the amount of found water in existing containers (what we have today) and keep the glass jars out. Give the player the ability to find/craft a personal water container (water skins made of leather up to larger canteens). Player can only carry 1 and depending on size/type, it can give the player a certain number of drinks before it's depleted. Water still needs to be purified by boiling (again, controversial because that isn't exactly how it works IRL).

The point is, most other survival games that I know of don't give the player a near limitless supply of water containers. They make the player work for it and you can carry a limited supply on your person at any time. People want 7DTD to be more survival? Bringing back glass jars isn't the answer.
 
Syphon583 said:
I know this is a controversial topic, but I personally don't want jars to come back. At least not in the way they were in the game before. TFP is right: water was such a non-issue in the game. It's it that big of a hurdle now? No, but it does take effort, resources and time and it isn't meant to be a constant struggle. Like with all things, you should be able to find sustainable solutions and the dew collector works (regardless of how unrealistic the implementation is).

I do like the solution some overhaul mods have - let the player fill a container from typical water sources, whether that be a faucet, water jug or natural body of water. I would vastly reduce the amount of found water in existing containers (what we have today) and keep the glass jars out. Give the player the ability to find/craft a personal water container (water skins made of leather up to larger canteens). Player can only carry 1 and depending on size/type, it can give the player a certain number of drinks before it's depleted. Water still needs to be purified by boiling (again, controversial because that isn't exactly how it works IRL).

The point is, most other survival games that I know of don't give the player a near limitless supply of water containers. They make the player work for it and you can carry a limited supply on your person at any time. People want 7DTD to be more survival? Bringing back glass jars isn't the answer.
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I agree with this observation overall. I don't "want" jars back as they were either. TFP ignored weight limits, you can mine...and carry all that material with no weight limit. So why are they hung up on water? how much you could gather?
I like the dew collector...you don't HAVE to live near a water source or use the old water bucket exploit. I do think it needs tweeking, but, not replacing or completely overhauling.

I think I'd prefer it if they just added the ability to craft bulk glue with buckets of dirty water. This would let you gather water from nature. Maybe let the dew collector be able to filter buckets of water (provided you HAVE the filter mod).
The way I play now:
I turn most of my drinking water from the dew collector into teas or coffee. and save the dirty water I find until I have enough to make a batch of glue.
 
Syphon583 said:
At least not in the way they were in the game before
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100% agree. I liked jars for the realism but they were too easy instead they should double down on the realism and make it much harder to make clean drinking water. Like levels on contamination

I would make taps and stuff way you can fill it up but once you loot it and it's out? Its out until resources respawn.

And I would make water a resource that you cant hold in your inventory without something like a jar/bucket, or can and that takes up space. Instead you gotta store it in water barrels and even a HINT of dirty water enters your clean supply? All gone.
 
faatal said:
That would be the Hold option, which we have except Tyler does not like the undocumented "tap" part of it, so they may become "Hold or Tap" or maybe just "Tap" and Hold be only hold, but we shall see.
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I can see what some were talking about when it comes to getting locked into sprint. I thought it was because locking it in was tied to the shift key as opposed to, say...shift lock. Not sure about all this tapping and holding. Can't we just assign a key on PC? Designing it for console, otoh....
 
I think they should just add an option to the main menu for "harvest water jars from sources" on or off. With it on whenever you press E at a water source you harvest one jar of murk instead of drinking it and jars of murk are removed from all loot containers. You can still build dew collectors and upgrade them to make pure water but the ability and immersion factor of being able to gather water from a stream and bring it home to boil is back in the game for those who want it.

Some survival games don't even HAVE thirst as a survival element....
 
The wording was kind of along the lines of... When it is done. Heh. Basically, some may be in 2.x if they are finished before 3.0. Others may not be until after 3.0. I'm basing my guesses on the amount of time I think it will take to add.
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Guppycur said:
Oh cool, you're still alive.

... I don't think that needs to be a menu option. It's good enough to be just how the game should work.

Naturally though, you must have a jar in your inventory for it to work.🙂
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I think his idea was that it lets everyone who doesn't want jars to not have them, while those who do can get water in jars from a water source. I think it is a decent, and very easy to implement, option that solves the problem people have with not being able to get water from a water source. Of course, it will also show how many people are actually upset about the jars so they can gather a lot of water instantly more than the immersion gathering water from the water source. I keep hearing that it isn't about the jars, but this would certainly prove that one way or another. 😁
 
Yes but my other point is that it doesn’t really matter if people want an easy way to always have water. Like I said, survival vs thirst is not always even depicted in survival games. It’s just abstractly packaged together with hunger.

Guppycur said:
Naturally though, you must have a jar in your inventory for it to work.🙂
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Fine by me since I would play with the option off anyway. ✌️
 
The fact so many on this thread are suggesting TFP half-■■■ organic water collection and not even attempt to balance it with the dew collector system just to shut "those people" up (essentially) is all the proof I'll ever need there is a vested effort to discount their concerns and even ridicule their concerns on the official forum for the game as others have repeatedly said.

If sufficiently thought through and made to be as seamless as possible there would be no need of an option to toggle anything on or off. Players could pursue both at their discretion and wouldn't have to choose one over the other. But that would be the hard and tricky part, wouldn't it? The part that would require brainpower and work.

Fallout 76 has both -- no toggle required-- and there are downsides to both: radiation exposure if gathering from rivers and streams and high material and C.A.M.P. budget cost if using water pumps and purifiers. Is it perfect? No. There is no perfect system, but "provide an option" that locks players in or out of one thing or another seems to be the go-to for everything around here. I'm beginning to wonder why that is.
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
The fact so many on this thread are suggesting TFP half-■■■ organic water collection and not even attempt to balance it with the dew collector system just to shut "those people" up (essentially) is all the proof I'll ever need there is a vested effort to discount their concerns and even ridicule their concerns on the official forum for the game as others have repeatedly said.

If sufficiently thought through and made to be as seamless as possible there would be no need of an option to toggle anything on or off. Players could pursue both at their discretion and wouldn't have to choose one over the other. But that would be the hard and tricky part, wouldn't it? The part that would require brainpower and work.

Fallout 76 has both -- no toggle required-- and there are downsides to both: radiation exposure if gathering from rivers and streams and high material and C.A.M.P. budget cost if using water pumps and purifiers. Is it perfect? No. There is no perfect system, but "provide an option" that locks players in or out of one thing or another seems to be the go-to for everything around here. I'm beginning to wonder why that is.
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But they had a system that worked fine enough and could have made it harder but they took the easy way out and removed it
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Yikes neebs gaming isn't happy lol
 
Roland said:
I think they should just add an option to the main menu for "harvest water jars from sources" on or off. With it on whenever you press E at a water source you harvest one jar of murk instead of drinking it and jars of murk are removed from all loot containers. You can still build dew collectors and upgrade them to make pure water but the ability and immersion factor of being able to gather water from a stream and bring it home to boil is back in the game for those who want it.

Some survival games don't even HAVE thirst as a survival element....
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I know it would get to a point where it would get ridiculous but I'm a person who's more for having more options, for me at least when I play survival games I like to see lots of different settings because it allows me to personalise how I play and what you have proposed would add a nice element to water survival, dew collectors or classic gameplay? Seems like a small thing but every setting we get helps improve that sandbox experience.
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
The fact so many on this thread are suggesting TFP half-■■■ organic water collection and not even attempt to balance it with the dew collector system just to shut "those people" up (essentially) is all the proof I'll ever need there is a vested effort to discount their concerns and even ridicule their concerns on the official forum for the game as others have repeatedly said.
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They’re just suggestions and one thing that absolutely is true about this forum is that people can express their opinions and be challenged and expected to defend those opinions but not overwhelmed by toxic opposition. Sure, some are super sensitive and if you say “I disagree” they view it as a personal attack but in other forums if you suggest anything other than bringing jars back your family is getting cancer and dying in a house fire while you suck the dev’s toes…

We allow both types of dialogue here: criticism and support. If you only want criticism then go to every other message board where even the slightest support gets quite a bit more than some ambiguous “essentially” shutting up of people.

If you want a hybrid system then advocate for it. If you think making an option for harvesting water is bad then challenge the idea. But don’t pass it off as some conspiracy theory.
InfiniteWarrior said:
If sufficiently thought through and made to be as seamless as possible there would be no need of an option to toggle anything on or off. Players could pursue both at their discretion and wouldn't have to choose one over the other. But that would be the hard and tricky part, wouldn't it? The part that would require brainpower and work.
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It is the tougher road and unlikely to please everyone whereas options are easier and can keep a larger portion of the player base satisfied.
InfiniteWarrior said:
Fallout 76 has both -- no toggle required-- and there are downsides to both: radiation exposure if gathering from rivers and streams and high material and C.A.M.P. budget cost if using water pumps and purifiers.
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So why not just do that? Oh yeah, because…

InfiniteWarrior said:
Is it perfect? No. There is no perfect system,
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That’s exactly the reason I and others have suggested options as a solution. Not to ridicule anyone or shut anyone up but because this forum allows people to make suggestions of all types and discuss them. They’re just ideas made by people who are powerless to code them into the game anyway.
InfiniteWarrior said:
but "provide an option" that locks players in or out of one thing or another seems to be the go-to for everything around here. I'm beginning to wonder why that is.
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Don’t be so dramatic. People aren’t locked out of one thing or another. Every option can be changed before each play session if you decide you want it the other way. If I decide to have zombies run during the day and walk at night I can change that on Day 45 of my game. Nobody is locked out of anything and you can play a game with an option toggled one way and then play a game with it toggled the other.
 
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