PC Scrap Magazine Notes (crafting materials for Full Magazines) - have a place in Vanilla

[warmer]

I have been playing with a Silent Hill Mod for the last week and I am having a wonderful time.

One big change is the removal of Magazines and instead you get magazine scraps. With 3 scraps you can craft a magazine of your choice.

In vanilla, I would say the Magazines should still scrap to paper, the Scrap Magazine Notes I am referring to are a unique item you cannot create, but must find/loot.

I am now level 48 and I have only maxed out 1 magazine branch. The majority of the time you get them from bag drops or mailboxes/file cabinets

If we included these alongside full magazines, I feel like this would REALLY make the build out of your character feel more purposeful and give you more freedom, while still keeping a level of RNG in the game to avoid it becoming 100% predictable as far as progression.

What do people think of these who have played with scraps?
Should this be brought into vanilla along side full magazines?
Where do you think it would make sense to find these? 

 

[Jeraal]

If you had suggested to scrap magazines completely, I would agree.

 

[bdubyah]

Nah, crafting random scraps of paper into whatever magazine is a silly mechanic to me. So you have the ability to know how to turn paper into a magazine about crafting shotguns, but after crafting the magazine from scratch you still have to read it to learn what you made? Nope, don't like it. I know at least a few overhauls have it and I get the reasoning behind it, but if RNG is such a pain there are better ways to go about trying to mitigate it.

 

[theFlu]

Yeh, no thanks; scrapping three cooking books to make a club crafting book .. sorry, but if your bread turns into batons, you're doing something wrong  

It'd make every mag the same thing, exactly the one thing I want; and there'd be no dry spells ever. You'd always get your wrench & forge on day 1, and prolly workbench as well. The rest of the playthru I'd only be getting my main weapon mags.. never to farm or cook or craft electrics or vehicles again.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

From what I read on the forum about the magazines, one of the main things discussed is volume,
repetition, and distribution. I think that the original plan was to have the perk points, contour the loot
to the player and their preferential play choices.

Maybe instead of scraps, which is just another high volume mechanic. Possibly reduce the volume,
and spawn them in higher tier POI's, but not in the open. have the potential of the more coveted
items drop from highly dangerous entities or some of the sleepers, not as bags, but searchable.

The ability to search corpses was removed, it could be balanced to set only the corpses that have
items become loot containers. Example The cops random chance of being a container. But if they
explode all chance is gone. Bookstores libraries, higher chance but not absolute, and set them to
be t6 infested. Most loot presently is in a sedentary location. Many bypass the majority of the poi
to grab loot,  If it's randomly on some of the entities, it's unpredictable, and you would have to

invest time and search the dead before despawn.   

I'm probably wrong, but it seems if volume, repetition, and manner of distribution, were adjusted
it might provide more game play inclusion and satisfaction.

 

[Dead Smarty]

Scrapping magazines into other magazines doesn't feel logic. Trading in an amount of same category magazines for 1 book of the same category seems more logic but it would still be in a volume (say 10 or 20) most people don't like. This only works of course if you are able to see this as the book being the bonus shortcut and not as grinding more magazines.
The system as it is might not be balanced but making it easier takes away a reason to explore. As long as people complain about the lack of endgame content I would say don't reduce the volume. Grinding might not be an interesting mechanic for everyone but to me grinding for books is more exciting than mining for a megabase.

 

[Riamus]

I agree with everyone else here.  Changing one magazine into another makes no sense.  You can't scrap a cookbook and then craft it into a magazine that tells you how to craft a turret.  It just makes no sense.  And if you're just talking about finding scraps instead of full magazines, they'd need to be scraps of each individual magazines for the same reason.  Scraps from a cookbook don't combine to make a magazine about turrets.

If you have a problem with magazines, at least look for something that makes at least some logical sense.  If you want to lower the number of magazines needed, you can do so.  It would still be logical.  If you want to swap back to schematics instead of magazines, it is again a logical option.  But making new magazines from old ones (or scraps) makes no sense.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

What I meant by lowering volume, was to make it more efficient in the way of each person after investing points in their preferred skills, would actually receive a higher chance of receiving the books they need or want "depending on risk factor". It's meant to do that now, but, it doesn't feel like a reward for pushing a limit. It's feels more like just a concentration of books based on point scale. That has prompted me to put points in generic survival skills, to lower the chance of getting

things so quickly without exploration  and  RNG and risk. I never use all of my points anymore. I have played using minimal investment in points and  it seemed

inspire the need for more exploration to accomplish a goal.

There are two types of books generic and specialty,  a set of schematics, and a set of mods associated

with skills weapons and armor.  If the algorithm was balanced and contoured more to a the individuals

choices then it could inspire more exploration, poi clearing, treasure hunting, and even mining, and this

is a left field thought. While mining what if there were a really rare chance of finding random treasure

that included a book that was needed.

 

[Riamus]

What I meant by lowering volume, was to make it more efficient in the way of each person after investing points in their preferred skills, would actually receive a higher chance of receiving the books they need or want "depending on risk factor". It's meant to do that now, but, it doesn't feel like a reward for pushing a limit. It's feels more like just a concentration of books based on point scale. That has prompted me to put points in generic survival skills, to lower the chance of getting

things so quickly without exploration  and  RNG and risk. I never use all of my points anymore. I have played using minimal investment in points and  it seemed

inspire the need for more exploration to accomplish a goal.

There are two types of books generic and specialty,  a set of schematics, and a set of mods associated

with skills weapons and armor.  If the algorithm was balanced and contoured more to a the individuals

choices then it could inspire more exploration, poi clearing, treasure hunting, and even mining, and this

is a left field thought. While mining what if there were a really rare chance of finding random treasure

that included a book that was needed.

Exploration is certainly lacking in this game, not even related to magazines specifically.  There is no reason to explore unless you just like to do so.  Set up next to a large city that has tier 5 POI and you never have to go anywhere other than a little distance for mining (perhaps further for shale).  You can get everything from the one town.  No town will give you anything that you can't get there.  Maybe another town has some better POI for a specific goal, such as having multiple Crack-A-Book stores and your town might not have any, but you can still get all the magazines even if it might not be as easy.  There aren't unique items randomly placed around the world to find.  There aren't unique quests around the world.  There just isn't anything that promotes exploration.  As someone who loves to explore and will spend time to completely explore the world as I play most games (I don't here, because there's no reason to), I would love to see exploration improved in this game.  I doubt it will happen, but it would be nice.

Randomly finding a crate when mining would also be a nice addition to make mining more interesting than just a way to get ore.  I wouldn't care if it could contain magazines.  Any loot would be an improvement.

 

[8_Hussars]

Exploration is certainly lacking in this game, not even related to magazines specifically.  There is no reason to explore unless you just like to do so. 

QFT.

The introduction of Trader Quests in their current form ruined that.  In general, players play to advance trader quest rep as fast as possible.  They rarely or never explore a POI unless its a quest or head out exploring for exploring sake.
 

 

[RipClaw]

The introduction of Trader Quests in their current form ruined that. 

The trader quests are one of the few reasons why I leave my hometown at all. The other reason is the search for Crack a Book and Savage Country POIs.

I prefer to build even though there is really no good reason to do it. Some like to build, some don't. I don't want anyone forcing exploring on me, nor do I want to force building on anyone else. So I think it's a good thing that both are optional.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Exploration is certainly lacking in this game, not even related to magazines specifically.

It feels more like a lot of well thought out parallels, with no intersection. Any one of them could be used to
tie the others together. But since the OP focus was on magazines that was more my focal point.

That's why I mentioned simplification. There are just a bit too many gimmes. Overall there are a lot
of great mechanics, the main thing lacking is cohesion as a single or symbiotic system, or real
dependency. That's why I create my maps the way I do. It's isn't because I dislike cities, but because
as you stated find one city and get rooted. So I changed back to POI clusters, and wilderness. I still
get the city environment and rules, because of the zoning configs. But I also get a blended amount of randomly
placed POIs to travel to, that act as a supporting structure.

If each system is a Walmart or one stop shop, then what is the inspiration for the other 7k in a map or to use
any other system. In this example magazines and books, could be posted in apartment buildings, when was the last
time one of those was searched in it's entirety. I figure a lot of time was spent making the POIs especially the
bigger ones, their libraries should have better books to read, or like I posted have them as a searchable loot on
the zombies there, I'm sure they use to read, before. Or the police department, or fire department. I have not
been to one of those in years. It use to be a need to. The paper that is found could be news papers, that when read
give "Fill in the blank here" it would give the surplus a purpose. But there is a silver lining, It prompts me to
mod, actually the more that keeps getting added the more it makes me mod vs getting to do a full play through.

I may mind map the mechanics, to see the interdependencies.

I prefer to build even though there is really no good reason to do it. Some like to build, some don't. I don't want anyone forcing exploring on me, nor do I want to force building on anyone else. So I think it's a good thing that both are optional.

I agree with this, because at one time I liked doing everything, and you are correct; forcing one thing or another on a person won't end well. The thing that might is having some form of relationship between each system. If they stay completely separate then which system would the End game content that is constantly being discussed be based on? Which system would be the main drive for the anticipated story line? What is the purpose for POIs, or entities? Each being linear in its direction and completion excludes everything else. That is kind of counterproductive to showing the work put into building the game.

 

[8_Hussars]

I prefer to build even though there is really no good reason to do it. Some like to build, some don't. I don't want anyone forcing exploring on me, nor do I want to force building on anyone else. So I think it's a good thing that both are optional.

Your right forcing any particular play style is not a good thing.  (I prefer to build as well, and to explore.)

Having said that trader quests ARE the META for the vast majority of players.  We can't give TFPs a pass on that.

Nerfing quest rewards made a little headway but there is much to make up. 

 

[zztong]

I took the suggestion to be that loot would be both _magazines_ and _scraps_. The magazines would act as they do today. The scraps would be fragments of magazines and if you got some number of them you might assemble the scraps into a magazine.

Think makes some sense to me. You're finding articles clipped out of magazines and assembling the whole story on some topic, so to speak.

But is this an attempt to make magazine progression faster? If so, why not just increase magazine drops? Or, is this an attempt to increase targeted magazine drops? If so, would you implement this and then back off on the drops of full magazines?

 

[8_Hussars]

But is this an attempt to make magazine progression faster? If so, why not just increase magazine drops? Or, is this an attempt to increase targeted magazine drops? If so, would you implement this and then back off on the drops of full magazines?

Exactly.  Progress is already extremely fast.  Too fast for many.

 

[warmer]

I took the suggestion to be that loot would be both _magazines_ and _scraps_. The magazines would act as they do today. The scraps would be fragments of magazines and if you got some number of them you might assemble the scraps into a magazine.

You got it mostly correct

The item used to craft a magazine is "Scrap Magazine notes" these DO NOT come from scrapped magazines. This it an item you find in the Silent hill mod. Sometimes it's 1 scrap, sometimes it's 8 in a chest. Magazines still scrap to paper.

These are like loose articles someone clipped out, again these ARE NOT from scrapping magazines, but a specific item type. I don't think you should scrap magazines to get these. 

The reason I think these would be a good addition is it splits the argument between
"I hate random magazines and I have no control over my progression" 
and
"It's already too easy as is"

I don't think this makes progression faster overall, only more directed towards your intended build. I finally was able to craft a crucible at level 48 after putting MOST of my crafted magazines into it. I think people will be surprised by how it works. In the silent hill mod, magazines are completely gone and you only get skill books. I was a big fan of the OG system, but after several games where I just COULDN'T find a critical magazine type, this would have completely solved that frustration and made it a lot more fun.

 

 

[Riamus]

It still comes down to a generic scrap that can be crafted into any magazine, right?  That's not even remotely logical.  Not only that, but as bdubyah said above, if you know how to craft a magazine, then you already know the information, so why do you even need to craft the magazine just to read it to learn what you already know?  It doesn't make any sense.

I get that some people want magazine drops to work better.  Sometimes you cannot find what you need.  Or you just don't like searching for the magazines.  Or you think they are too fast or too RNG.  There are all kinds of reasons people don't like them.  But there are also many options you can use to improve these issues without resorting to something that doesn't make any sense.  You can decrease the number of magazines needed, or increase the drop change for them, or change where they can drop so you can't loot from mailboxes if you think that's too easy.  You can even remove magazines and go back to schematics.  Any of these make sense, and there are plenty of other options.

I definitely wouldn't want to see any form of magazine crafting in the game.  Not unless it was only used for selling magazines and not for learning anything, which really doesn't have any value.

 

[warmer]

It still comes down to a generic scrap that can be crafted into any magazine, right?  That's not even remotely logical.  Not only that, but as bdubyah said above, if you know how to craft a magazine, then you already know the information, so why do you even need to craft the magazine just to read it to learn what you already know?  It doesn't make any sense.

I feel like people are missing the concept. It's loose articles. Like someone clips out several pages because of a cool invention in popular mechanics. While you don't have the full magazine, if you collect enough scraps, you'd have the full artilce/magazine. It's not COMPLETELY logical, and nothing is in this game. Jars disappear for game balance. NOT for realism. Zombies exist for, well gameplay and not realism. 

What if you ONLY had these in loot bags? These are SUPPOSED to feel special to help you move towards your desired build, not replace it. I suppose I might feel strongly because I am playing a system now that uses it and I am having WAY more fun because of it. I'm 1100+ hrs of actual gameplay (majority solo) so this is coming from someone with 40+ hours in every Alpha past 6 till now.

Either way, people have strong feelings on the current system as it can be very random and keep you from getting what you would like. This let's you nudge it in your desired direction. Again, not saying these replace, but supplement
 

 

[theFlu]

I feel like people are missing the concept. It's loose articles. Like someone clips out several pages because of a cool invention in popular mechanics.

I did miss that you wouldn't get them from scrapping mags yourself (why not?) .. but having three articles describing the fancy steering column of a toyota, still doesn't make me any better at baking bread. The logic just isn't there. Just because jars suck now, I don't want more illogical things added, I want the current ones fixed...

The magazine system isn't really random, it very rarely changes what you get by much; you have stupidly high chance of getting the things you spec for. If you're looking for something you're not specced for, you're doing it wrong in the current game.

Make it be random Stephen King books, and add a librarian to the game to trade them with...

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Nah, crafting random scraps of paper into whatever magazine is a silly mechanic to me. So you have the ability to know how to turn paper into a magazine about crafting shotguns, but after crafting the magazine from scratch you still have to read it to learn what you made? Nope, don't like it. I know at least a few overhauls have it and I get the reasoning behind it, but if RNG is such a pain there are better ways to go about trying to mitigate it.

Reading magazines and learning how to build a gyro is the same kind of realism. Wouldn´t matter tbh, it´s both abstract and unrealistic.

The problem with magazines is that you can´t ignore any loot container that could contain them. Annoying af, boring af. Would be the same with magazien scraps, so a no from me.