PC v1.x Developer Diary

[Roland]

ill forgive you for this one as i know 100% you dont play pvp but let me inform your real quick... during raids alot of time players have their bedroll removed. THERE IS NO BEDROLL TO SPAWN TO

That is weird if respawning defaults to backpack if  you have no bedroll. It should be a random respawn location. Still, this is solvable as is by simply changing the settings to not drop your backpack when dead. People would spawn back still fully equipped and have a better chance of escaping the vicinity.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

That is weird if respawning defaults to backpack if  you have no bedroll. It should be a random respawn location. Still, this is solvable as is by simply changing the settings to not drop your backpack when dead. People would spawn back still fully equipped and have a better chance of escaping the vicinity.

last time we checked this is how respawning works

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

I kind of understand Grandpa Minion's thought after reading that list.
Could a possible resolution be placed in the game initialization menu
to have a finite set of "randomized" spawnpoints, and still include the
static spawnpoints. Static points are easily learned and memorized, which
in turn make camping easy.

When in dm you can teleport to any point on the map, including rooftops, so
can that same principle be used when a person is playing and dies. The average
map is 8k squared, in the formation menu if a numeric option were allowed regarding
respawn distance minus map perimeter so you don't spawn in dead space. Each player
could fill a personal value between 100 and and limited to 25% the map diameter.

The "death regen mechanic" could use a trajectory movement similar to that of the vulture
algorithm which I like actually. Starting in a random direction until distance reached and
regen the person there, as long as its not in water or radiation.

It could be applicable to PVE and PVP, and if a person picked 1024 then they already know

they have a trek ahead.

 

[Old Crow]

what ever pve player talked the pimps into adding spawn near backpack obviously wasn't thinking

Strictly PVE here, I love having Spawn Near Backpack. It doesn't put you right on top of your bag, you can still easily run in and grab it.

If you don't like the option... don't use it?

 

[Grandpa Minion]

If you don't like the option... don't use it?

yeah thats what the convo was about... There used to be an option in serverxml could remove it for those who didnt want it.

Removed "AllowSpawnNearBackpack" from serverconfig.xml 

something so simple but was takent away that gave players an option to remove if it they didnt want spawnnearbackpack

 

[Roland]

yeah thats what the convo was about... There used to be an option in serverxml could remove it for those who didnt want it.

Removed "AllowSpawnNearBackpack" from serverconfig.xml 

something so simple but was takent away that gave players an option to remove if it they didnt want spawnnearbackpack

But what about my comment about enabling the setting where people keep their gear when killed? PvP can only work well when the playing field is balanced. Even if someone spawns somewhere far away the imbalance between them and their killer is beyond acceptable in a competitive sense. Why are you playing with settings that create such an imbalance and lead to death loops. 

You can blame the spawning rules but your willingness to play a game where the victor gets everything the loser had and the loser returns to the game naked and defenseless is every bit as much to blame. Since you desire that level of brutality I can't see you complaining about the the details.

Simply change the server settings to drop nothing on death and when someone spawns back in they have their gear and can defend themselves or have a chance to retreat. Not only that, but there would be no backpack so the spawning near backpack possibility wouldn't even happen.

 

[HB_H4wk]

Spawn on backpack is still on the setup on my host.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

But what about my comment about enabling the setting where people keep their gear when killed?

since you don't play pvp i well try explain it in a way that your mind can comprehend... So your playing pve and come across a zombie.... You attack and kill the zombie and it instantly respawns within 50m of you and starts attacking you again, you repeat the kill same things happens, you repeat the kill same thing happens, you repeat the kill same happens...... Under what your suggesting is what would happen in pvp if no one lost anything. They would just set there killing each other for hours up on end with no winner or loser. Your idea is pointless and wouldn't work in pvp,

 

[Silent454]

But what about my comment about enabling the setting where people keep their gear when killed? PvP can only work well when the playing field is balanced. Even if someone spawns somewhere far away the imbalance between them and their killer is beyond acceptable in a competitive sense. Why are you playing with settings that create such an imbalance and lead to death loops. 

You can blame the spawning rules but your willingness to play a game where the victor gets everything the loser had and the loser returns to the game naked and defenseless is every bit as much to blame. Since you desire that level of brutality I can't see you complaining about the the details.

Simply change the server settings to drop nothing on death and when someone spawns back in they have their gear and can defend themselves or have a chance to retreat. Not only that, but there would be no backpack so the spawning near backpack possibility wouldn't even happen.

As a pvp player what you are suggesting would do the opposite of your intention. It would only enable more death loops as lower geared players can more easily harass more geared players until they eventually fail, this being most prevalent in base combat. Being given the option to remove spawn near backpack would actually force the engagement to end and players would have to find each other again. What you're proposing would instead shift the balance toward anyone who can stay logged in longer instead of toward those who are more skilled. Pvp is inherently unbalanced as position, resources, player count, ect. all play a vital role in the fight and removing any of those factors is damaging to that dynamic.

Also pvp is pointless without some resource transfer as part of the process. This is how pvp players get ahead of the competition, either by gaining resources or draining their opponents. 

Edit: In addition player choice was removed, shouldn't we strive for more choice in our games not less? If I wanted less choice I'd just go watch a movie, ain't no choice there.

Spawn on backpack is still on the setup on my host.

View attachment 33300

That looks like an outdated interface, happens fairly often when options get removed or added suddenly. I'm willing to bet toggling that on your host would do nothing since the underlying code that it references is likely no longer there or shut off.

 

[Silent454]

Strictly PVE here, I love having Spawn Near Backpack. It doesn't put you right on top of your bag, you can still easily run in and grab it.

If you don't like the option... don't use it?

The problem here is the option to use it or not has been removed. 

 

[Roland]

As a pvp player what you are suggesting would do the opposite of your intention. It would only enable more death loops as lower geared players can more easily harass more geared players until they eventually fail, this being most prevalent in base combat. Being given the option to remove spawn near backpack would actually force the engagement to end and players would have to find each other again.

No it wouldn't. There would be no backpack to spawn near so the coding would skip that option. People would spawn back at their bedroll or randomly in the world. In my mind lower-geared players banding together to be able to take down a more geared/skilled player sounds like better balance than any player respawning naked having lost everything and all of that going to the winner and then that winner continuously killing that naked player for the next few hours until that naked player logs out for the day.

What you're proposing would instead shift the balance toward anyone who can stay logged in longer instead of toward those who are more skilled.

That is true no matter what. My suggestion allows all players to maintain a measure of survivability upon respawn rather than the loser instantly being rendered hopelessly outgunned by an obviously unbalanced swing in power. Even if they return the ability to mod the game so that respawning near your backpack is impossible, the advantage still goes to whoever can stay logged in longer. Just the fact that there are RPG elements and skill progression and HP progression make it so that whoever plays more is more advantaged no matter what. Don't use an excuse that is universally true no matter what to justify your one specific argument.

Pvp is inherently unbalanced as position, resources, player count, ect. all play a vital role in the fight and removing any of those factors is damaging to that dynamic.

Not in most games that are designed for PvP and so those sorts of things are balanced by strict rules of spawning and keeping the battlefield fair. This game is not balanced at all for PvP but removing a huge imbalance like losing your entire inventory when you die to your oppenent just exacerbates it. Playing drop nothing on death helps keep the balance closer.

If this game was designed as a PvP game you can bet that the death penalty might be the loss of a few items  from your inventory and some gold but the loser would keep most of their gear because it is simply self-evident that losing everything is just unbalanced. 

Edit: In addition player choice was removed, shouldn't we strive for more choice in our games not less? If I wanted less choice I'd just go watch a movie, ain't no choice there.

The game does offer more choice when played as it is designed. For most players having all three options for respawn is fantastic and more than we used to have. I'm not sure why the ability to bypass the option for respawn near backpacks is no longer there but I suppose it probably has something to do with crossplay with consoles.

 

[Roland]

since you don't play pvp i well try explain it in a way that your mind can comprehend...

I've played plenty of PvP in games that are designed for it which is why I am able to comprehend the difference between them and this game which is not balanced at all due in large part to the skill progression, HP progression, and gear progression RPG elements. I played PvP in this game as well for the first four years and then gave up on it because it just wasn't a balanced and fair experience any longer.

So your playing pve and come across a zombie.... You attack and kill the zombie and it instantly respawns within 50m of you and starts attacking you again, you repeat the kill same things happens, you repeat the kill same thing happens, you repeat the kill same happens...... Under what your suggesting is what would happen in pvp if no one lost anything.

Let me help your mind comprehend the thing you missed in my post. Read carefully: With the drop nothing on death option enabled there would be no backpack to spawn near and so the coding would never select that option under any circumstance. So your example of the zombie respawning 50m of you is bogus. That wouldn't happen in PvP if no one lost anything.

They would just set there killing each other for hours up on end with no winner or loser. Your idea is pointless and wouldn't work in pvp,

They might just sit there killing each other for hours up on end or they could disengage as they wished and the fact that they could continue to battle on or have even a chance of escaping and getting away proves that there would be a better balance and fairness in the battlefield. If my idea is pointless for PvP then why would it result in players actually PvPing for hours on end if they wanted to? Seems like my idea would result in more PvP if continuing the fight is what the players involved wanted to do.

When you put that up against one losing everything and respawning naked and getting killed over and over and over and over and over again by the guy who took all their stuff, well....

I get it. You want to steal everything your opponent has because that is the type of PvP you like. You like huge swings in power. I prefer fairness and balanced competition which is why I stopped playing PvP in this game 6-7 years ago when it just went too far in the RPG adventure game direction. As an aside, the fact that there are players with your preferences is exactly why we do need NPC bandits that keep the game balanced and fair as long as it is going to continue to be an RPG open world adventure survival game.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

pvp is much more than just killing someone, it could be player vs player, it could be team vs team, it could be the mexican cartel vs the french legion, it could be russians vs americans... it is so many other things than just killing: RAIDS, THE UNKNOWN, THE UNEXPECTED, THE SUSPENSE OF KNOWING YOUR NOT ALONE... alot of things i hear players screaming for on this forum wanting bandits and yes i have seen teams from all over the world compete against each other thats just part of what makes pvp exciting.

 

[Silent454]

No it wouldn't. There would be no backpack to spawn near so the coding would skip that option. People would spawn back at their bedroll or randomly in the world. In my mind lower-geared players banding together to be able to take down a more geared/skilled player sounds like better balance than any player respawning naked having lost everything and all of that going to the winner.

So your solution is to remove a large reason for pvp entirely... what is even the point, might as well play overwatch if we are only playing for points. 

That is true no matter what. My suggestion allows all players to maintain a measure of survivability upon respawn rather than the loser instantly being rendered hopelessly outgunned by an obviously unbalanced swing in power. Even if they make it so that respawning near your backpack is impossible, the advantage still goes to whoever can stay logged in longer. Just the fact that there are RPG elements and skill progression and HP progression make it so that whoever plays more is more advantaged.

It's not inevitable except under your plan. Playing more does not automatically mean success but under your plan this problem will get worse, not might will.

Not in most games that are designed for PvP and so those sorts of things are balanced by strict rules of spawning and keeping the battlefield fair. This game is not balanced at all for PvP but removing a huge imbalance like losing your entire inventory when you die to your oppenent just exacerbates it. Playing drop nothing on death helps keep the balance closer.

If this game was designed as a PvP game you can bet that the death penalty might be the loss of a few item from your inventory and some gold but the loser would keep most of their gear because it is simply self-evident that losing everything is just unbalanced. 

Pvp to get loot is mostly the point, you seem to just be anti-pvp with this comment dude. You are not balancing out pvp with this "idea" you are shifting it to the no-lifers.

So basically the game isn't designed for pvp so lets abandon the pvpers... thanks, glad to see this type of attitude from a mod.

The game does offer more choice when played as it is designed. For most players having all three options for respawn is fantastic and more than we used to have. I'm not sure why the ability to bypass the option for respawn near backpacks is no longer there but I suppose it probably has something to do with crossplay with consoles.

Server owners are players too in their own way, they should be allowed to choose how their server is setup the way they like it and it will succeed or die based on their own money/popularity. Also, there is no reason this should be affecting crossplay compatibility unless you are suggesting pimps don't know their own software...

Final note: please don't split up my argument then repeat yours throughout your response, it's tedious.

 

[Sgt At Arms]

pvp is much more than just killing someone, it could be player vs player, it could be team vs team, it could be the mexican cartel vs the french legion, it could be russians vs americans... it is so many other things than just killing: RAIDS, THE UNKNOWN, THE UNEXPECTED, THE SUSPENSE OF KNOWING YOUR NOT ALONE... alot of things i hear players screaming for on this forum wanting bandits and yes i have seen teams from all over the world compete against each other thats just part of what makes pvp exciting.

This is what I love about PVP. No computer gaming program can outsmart and outthink a player. Once you know how to beat the game the challenge is over. PVP keeps you on your toes. You always have the unexpected, you always have to keep your head on a swivel. The challenge always changes with each player who learns and adapts. 

 

[Gamida]

I don't think in my life I have ever played a PVP game so what I am about to say might be just me talking out my butt crack.

Ok, so in PVP I would expect if I killed someone that I would be able to loot them. That is what you would want. To find something on them that you need or will help you survive longer.

Something like food, water, better weapon or amour, ammo, etc

Killing someone and having them disappear in front of my eyes would suck.

That said the only way I can see PVP working in this game is having it be permanent death for each player.

There would be a specified time at beginning that there would be a no killing setting so you could  build up your gear, base etc or else everyone would be like cavemen and just being naked and killing each other with stone weapons. Then after that time it would be reset to allow killing. As each player died they would not be able to rejoin server until it got down to the last player. That player/team wins.

As I said, have never played PVP so that might be a totally useless way for it to work. Just how I see it playing out.

 

[Sgt At Arms]

I really wish there was more support for PVP. I feel like there is a huge community that would enjoy that aspect, but i don't see the developers supporting the very option they put in the game. 

 

[firewalker101]

This is what I love about PVP. No computer gaming program can outsmart and outthink a player. Once you know how to beat the game the challenge is over. PVP keeps you on your toes. You always have the unexpected, you always have to keep your head on a swivel. The challenge always changes with each player who learns and adapts. 

PVP just added unnecessary stress to life by regular gamers who have no job or life. They are so far skilled against those who actually work and/or have family to tend to as well.
Some PVP has it's moments when you get that kill shot, but you don't know what's happening on the other person's mind. Perhaps that person was helping a friend to give them something, perhaps they had something quick they needed to do before they logged off cause of their kid screaming which in-it-self causes stress listing to the whining.
Perhaps the player getting hit had a rough day at work and just needs to veg out and have a mental shutdown and then the shot interrupts their game play and could be the last draw to causing crime committed because their mind is so frazzled but was -not- aware of it which usually referred to as temporary insanity.
They could be gardening needing to get some supplies and now are dead and come back and possibly their stuff is griefed..  Technically yes - a land claim can offer the farming blocks or base protection, but the player - not so much.
With many players - the attackers may often chant and mok the victim / insult .. just seems all unnecessary *shrugs*
 

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Pvp to get loot is mostly the point, you seem to just be anti-pvp with this comment dude. You are not balancing out pvp with this "idea" you are shifting it to the no-lifers.

So basically the game isn't designed for pvp so lets abandon the pvpers... thanks, glad to see this type of attitude from a mod.

The mods attitude towards pvp on this forum has been the same for years.. that is why most pvp players dont even post on it. I have been told by countless pvp players over the years that they would have posted ideas, shared their thoughts and so on throught out the years if wasn't for the BIAS attitude against pvp players from the mods on this forum. All i can tell you is dont get frustrated and thanks for sharing your view. Once console starts to join dedicated i have feeling that well change. Console players luv pvp.....

 

[hans44]

Always loved strategy and tactics games. First person shooters and building. Supporting my friends and taking our enemies out.

But not at the expense of honor and playing fair.