PC v1.x Developer Diary

[Vaeliorin]

While I don't have a dog in this fight, I will say, given their track record the past several years, it would be nice if whenever they came up with dates for things they'd always add at least 6 months to them.

Now granted, it's possible they did something like this and are even more behind their estimates than normal, but given how consistently past estimates they tend to be, it just seems they should give themselves some more leeway (and almost everyone is happy when a developer releases something before they'd predicted if they finish early.)

 

[HammerDano]

Fan boys, or just people who are aware and understand this game's development? TFP isn't perfect, but at this point to me, they are what they are. I know what to expect from them and they have given us a great game for several years now.

How was console released prematurely? Is the PC version premature to you? Or do you just say that due to the few issues the console version has had? You console guys wanted the game back so bad, but yet you can't have any patience to work through a few teething issues for a developer that, as you've noted at every turn, aren't console developers by trade? Yeah, maybe EA games aren't for you then. Stick to some soulless AAA games or something.

Fan boys, or just people who are aware and understand this game's development? TFP isn't perfect, but at this point to me, they are what they are. I know what to expect from them and they have given us a great game for several years now.

How was console released prematurely? Is the PC version premature to you? Or do you just say that due to the few issues the console version has had? You console guys wanted the game back so bad, but yet you can't have any patience to work through a few teething issues for a developer that, as you've noted at every turn, aren't console developers by trade? Yeah, maybe EA games aren't for you then. Stick to some soulless AAA games or something.

I don't like you...you don't like me. so yeah...keep fanning the flames.

How was the console released prematurely? WELL...I guess if the devs decided they did not want to listen to their own words to not re-release without several key features...well, that is how it happened.

There's releasing a game in its last stretch EA...which most people accept, and then there is this. Please, find a way to tell me that console users would shell out AGAIN for this game knowing that it would still be 3-4 years before it MAY be done. I'll wait.

 

[Arez]

Then why did they put out a roadmap?

Promotion.

I learned a long time ago that road maps for games don't mean s#!t, maybe unless it's a big company with a lot of resources, but even then those games seem to end up with a ton of problems anyway.

The biggest problem in this situation is not them missing what you're calling "deadlines", it's the road map itself. A road map is a big mistake because it leads to things like this.   

Thirteen years in development, they have said they were close to going gold in 2019 and 2021 but...I am rushing them? 

This is probably why I think Fubar Prime tends to hush Rick when he starts to talk about things. That's the biggest crime here. Nothing should be talked about unless it's guaranteed ready. 

There needs to be a community rep; someone that filters information and translates patch notes into an understandable format. That's my biggest issue. What's the point of releasing patch notes when no one can understand them?

 

[bdubyah]

I don't like you...you don't like me. so yeah...keep fanning the flames.

How was the console released prematurely? WELL...I guess if the devs decided they did not want to listen to their own words to not re-release without several key features...well, that is how it happened.

There's releasing a game in its last stretch EA...which most people accept, and then there is this. Please, find a way to tell me that console users would shell out AGAIN for this game knowing that it would still be 3-4 years before it MAY be done. I'll wait.

You act like it's personal, but it's not. You're the one that came to the PC section to cry about your console issues.

They put out the roadmap before the new console version released, no? So you knew at least 2 more years before the last things were added. You can mention missing dates already and all that, but you can't see a roadmap for 2 years and start whining a few months in. You knew it wasn't what you would consider "complete" when you bought the new version, and if you somehow didn't then that's your fault for making an uninformed purchase. As someone else said above, your biggest issue seems to be you. Maybe become more informed instead of just being blind to years of info. Not a good look.

 

[HammerDano]

Promotion.

I learned a long time ago that road maps for games don't mean s#!t, maybe unless it's a big company with a lot of resources, but even then those games seem to end up with a ton of problems anyway.

The biggest problem in this situation is not them missing what you're calling "deadlines", it's the road map itself. A road map is a big mistake because it leads to things like this.   

This is probably why I think Fubar Prime tends to hush Rick when he starts to talk about things. That's the biggest crime here. Nothing should be talked about unless it's guaranteed ready. 

There needs to be a community rep; someone that filters information and translates patch notes into an understandable format. That's my biggest issue. What's the point of releasing patch notes when no one can understand them?

 thank you for changing your tone. 

I agree with you that there should be a community rep. Better communication helps more than it hurts.

I think we also agree about overpromising/underdelivering.

still disagree about deadlines being deadlines, but, hey, progress is progress.

your example about Lathan and Rick is exactly why I bring it up in my arguments. If TFP had bandits and story implementation locked in...I am 99% we would have heard about it. 

 

[Riamus]

Respectfully, you are speaking from a PC echo chamber. I was warned long before I came to this site, that it was inhabited almost exclusively by fan boys. It is not an unknown to people who know this game.

Yes...both communities are tied together now. too bad console was released prematurely. 

As has been mentioned, this is the PC section of the forum.  There is a console section if you want to talk to people who are interested in the console version.  Devs have just as much chance of seeing things there as they do here, so you don't lose anything by talking there.  But you chose to come to the PC section, so you're going to get a lot of PC players responding to you.  Complaining about it doesn't change the fact that you chose to post here instead of in the console section.

And this whole "fan boys" thing that people like to label others is pretty stupid.  Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make them a "fan boy" or make their opinion any less valid than your own.  All opinions are equally valid because they are opinions, not facts.  If someone likes the game, that also doesn't make them a "fan boy".  Nor does supporting the game or devs.  The term "fan boy" (when used as a derogatory) is originally a reference to someone who ignores all problems and still supports something.  Do you see that here?  No.  Most everyone who posts support for the devs and game also post about problems they have with the devs and game.  I have posted many times about things I don't like and don't agree with.  That doesn't mean I don't think they game is good or that the devs aren't doing a decent enough job.  And my opinion about the game and devs doesn't make me a "fan boy".

Labeling people, being derogatory towards people, flaming the devs or games or players... these are rather childish behaviors and only result in making you look bad.  If you want anyone to take you seriously (maybe you do, maybe you don't), then you would be better off being polite and posting your concerns without name calling.

And this whole PC vs Console mentality (that is mostly only on the side of console players, other than just PC players mocking console for having this mentality) is also rather stupid.  There's no reason why someone is wrong for liking one or the other system.  And many people have both console and PC and play games on both, showing there's no reason for anyone to have this type of mentality.  Yes, PC tends to get more options and better performance than console players for any game designed primarily for PC instead of just being a console to PC port.  But that's something any console player should already know and expect, so it's not something to really complain about.  If you play on console, you have to understand that consoles cannot be upgraded (mostly) and so you will never be able to keep up with performance improvements like you can on PC.  Console manufacturers also have limitations on what they allow on their consoles (including mods) and you know that already, so complaints about stuff like that are pointless.  In the end, if you don't like the limitations that consoles have, then get a PC.  You can use a console controller on PC if you want, and you can connect a PC to a TV if you want a larger screen, so you aren't losing anything by using a PC... and you gain a lot.  And with the next generation of consoles costing more than a lower end gaming PC that can play most games on Ultra settings, you won't even be able to use the cost excuse anymore.

 thank you for changing your tone. 

I agree with you that there should be a community rep. Better communication helps more than it hurts.

I think we also agree about overpromising/underdelivering.

still disagree about deadlines being deadlines, but, hey, progress is progress.

your example about Lathan and Rick is exactly why I bring it up in my arguments. If TFP had bandits and story implementation locked in...I am 99% we would have heard about it. 

And what do you mean by locked in?  They are definitely coming.  To me, that's "locked in."  They have said many times that they are coming.  And you can see the work they have done in preparation for them.

 

[HammerDano]

You act like it's personal, but it's not. You're the one that came to the PC section to cry about your console issues.

They put out the roadmap before the new console version released, no? So you knew at least 2 more years before the last things were added. You can mention missing dates already and all that, but you can't see a roadmap for 2 years and start whining a few months in. You knew it wasn't what you would consider "complete" when you bought the knew version, and if you somehow didn't then that's your fault for making an uninformed purchase. As someone else said above, your biggest issue seems to be you. Maybe become more informed instead of just being blind to years of info. Not a good look.

it's just business has been pretty personal to a few people over the years.

or are you talking about our interpersonal differences?

because if that is the case...I point to the many threads you and I have had exchanges...that have grown increasingly hostile.

You seem to cherry pick when and what you will respond to...and only what you seem to think is the weakest argument.

I have suggested many times that YOU just not interact with console posts.

I do appreciate it when people acknowledge the whole post. I do appreciate people who politely disagree. It does change how I speak to them as an individual.

You are right.. I did know they had a year and a half long roadmap. So on one hand you can say...hey you knew it was incomplete. Also not unfair for me to point out that they are already months behind and it just started...I didn't sign up for 3-4 more years.

 

[meganoth]

 thank you for changing your tone. 

I agree with you that there should be a community rep. Better communication helps more than it hurts.

I think we also agree about overpromising/underdelivering.

still disagree about deadlines being deadlines, but, hey, progress is progress.

your example about Lathan and Rick is exactly why I bring it up in my arguments. If TFP had bandits and story implementation locked in...I am 99% we would have heard about it. 

What does "locked in" mean? If it means "practically finished" , then there is official word that those are not. They are projected for Q2/25 and Q4/25.

EDIT 2: It seems for Riamus it means something else. So it would be nice if you said what you meant by it.

 

[HammerDano]

What does "locked in" mean? If it means "practically finished" , then there is official word that those are not. They are projected for Q2/25 and Q4/25.

Take that to mean : they are finished to the point they can be considered mostly done (at least 85%). that they are ready to be polished and fine tuned for release. Consistent with a product that is almost finished...just needs balancing/post release bug fixes.

 

[Riamus]

Take that to mean : they are finished to the point they can be considered mostly done (at least 85%). that they are ready to be polished and fine tuned for release. Consistent with a product that is almost finished...just needs balancing/post release bug fixes.

Well, considering bandits on the roadmap are Q2 this year (based on the delay for Storm's Brewing, I'd put that at Q3 realistically), then I'd say they probably are around that much done with them.  They've already put in a various updates that you can see in the game related both the bandits and the story.  They haven't said they are changing the order of the roadmap, so it's unlikely they won't come out after Storm's Brewing.  Sure, it's delayed some.  If you know anything about TFP, that is to be expected.  I was estimating Storm's Brewing at February to March back in the fall, which seems to be about right.  I'd expect the bandit release to be late Q3.  Of course, these are my personal estimates and are may not be accurate.

They have tried to tell people when dates changed in the past and just got blasted for it, so there's not really any incentive to do so again.  We'll hear about it a little before the experimental comes out or just be surprised with experimental.  Maybe it's not what some people want, but it's how they do things.  That won't change, so easier just to accept it and move on.  It isn't like they are the only devs who don't give a play by play of the development process.  And most who do regular updates use a community manager who really doesn't give any real information and the updates are mostly fluff to make it appear that they are giving information.  Is it "right" or "good"?  Maybe not.  Is it normal?  Yes.  Will it change?  Probably not.  Am I going to get upset about it?  Why?  I have better things to do that complain about whether or not they communicate everything to me.

 

[HammerDano]

Well, considering bandits on the roadmap are Q2 this year (based on the delay for Storm's Brewing, I'd put that at Q3 realistically), then I'd say they probably are around that much done with them.  They've already put in a various updates that you can see in the game related both the bandits and the story.  They haven't said they are changing the order of the roadmap, so it's unlikely they won't come out after Storm's Brewing.  Sure, it's delayed some.  If you know anything about TFP, that is to be expected.  I was estimating Storm's Brewing at February to March back in the fall, which seems to be about right.  I'd expect the bandit release to be late Q3.  Of course, these are my personal estimates and are may not be accurate.

I'm sure you are not the only person who internally readjusted the timelines they release...I am not personally interested in reading tea leaves or making excuses. They wanted people to believe that they were going to throw off that old image of being slow and not being able to meet deadlines.

They have tried to tell people when dates changed in the past and just got blasted for it, so there's not really any incentive to do so again.  We'll hear about it a little before the experimental comes out or just be surprised with experimental.  Maybe it's not what some people want, but it's how they do things.  That won't change, so easier just to accept it and move on.  It isn't like they are the only devs who don't give a play by play of the development process.  And most who do regular updates use a community manager who really doesn't give any real information and the updates are mostly fluff to make it appear that they are giving information.  Is it "right" or "good"?  Maybe not.  Is it normal?  Yes.  Will it change?  Probably not.  Am I going to get upset about it?  Why?  I have better things to do that complain about whether or not they communicate everything to me.

they used to lock all posts to comments....now you can comment. things can change

 

[Morloc]

I see what you did there, but everyone knows that time passes differently on consoles than on PCs.


-Arch Necromancer Morloc 

 

[zztong]

I was warned long before I came to this site, that it was inhabited almost exclusively by fan boys.

I disagree with this. I think the difference in tone is because these forums are more moderated AND because the regulars have been around for a long time. I think this is also the best forum to make contact with modders for the game, other than perhaps Discord once you've made contact with a modder.

There certainly is dissent on this forum, and I don't mean just the users who make an account and drop in to drop a "truth bomb" and then disappear. (Feel free to lookup my history of posts related to water sources.)

It's Reddit and Steam that I think are the poorer quality forums. If I want a heavy dose of snark and misinformation I'm more likely to find that kind of thing there.

Hang out and get to know everyone.

 

[Arez]

still disagree about deadlines being deadlines, but, hey, progress is progress.

It's not a deadline because you see the words on there that say "subject to change".

And nothing has changed about my tone. I'm still saying the same thing. For things to be released in a more timely manner, more effort needs to be put in...either by increasing the number of people working or by having the same number of people doing more work. 

It would be best for your sanity to not care so much. Complaints aren't going to make them work any faster especially with the game doing well. I'm pretty sure they're used to complaints, so one more is not going to sting them. 

 

[meganoth]

I disagree with this. I think the difference in tone is because these forums are more moderated AND because the regulars have been around for a long time. I think this is also the best forum to make contact with modders for the game, other than perhaps Discord once you've made contact with a modder.

In that vein, please everyone notice that discussion of moderation in ANY form (even generally) is off-topic and against forum rules.

 

[Jost Amman]

@faatal Hi, I hope you and TFP will have a great 2025 both personally and professionally!  arty:

I was wondering how your progress is with the bandits. As I've said in the past, I got the impression this is the most challenging part of the game to develop, so I understand if progress is slow. It would be interesting though, to understand what obstacles you've been encountering while developing the bandit AI and, in general, what the Team says about how to add them to the world of 7D2D.

Specifically:

1. Has the Team been working on bandits at all in the last months, or are you waiting to finish the other changes first?
   (if the answer is no, you may want to ignore the following questions)
   
2. What is the most challenging part in the development of the bandit's AI?
   
3. Has the Team come up with a way to add bandits into the world (Random, dedicated POI's, story) and how?
   
4. Is there a plan to release them gradually over time (b1->b?), or does it seem like TFP want to release bandits when all bandit-related features are ready?
   

Thanks for your time!  

 

[zztong]

In that vein, please everyone notice that discussion of moderation in ANY form (even generally) is off-topic and against forum rules.

Interesting. Oh, crud, maybe this message is a violation. (Awkward...)

 

[firewalker101]

what is kind of annoying is the stability when you have 3 or 4 players - if i'm doing a mission 2.3 km away on a level 6 mission minding my own business in the desert and another is doing stuff in forest that may be 3.5 km to 4.5 km away and another player is northern part of the desert 2.3 km  - perhaps 1 is flying or otherwise, the game can freeze . no one can do anything really. either game crashes or freezes indefinitely till i have to force game down.  loading back in, my whole mission resets as if i never started it. We're talking ingame chat in a party using the walkie-talkie function using the Right D-Pad as we all report we're all freezing up.
I could be half way or near the end about to collect that boss loot after 1 to 3 hours on it depending on size of the building, etc and have to now start all over again....

i would say cross play dedicated server - which may or may not offer better stability since it would be likely on a PC server hosting to xbox and PS players - and if still issues, it may be the memory or something else going on which then 2nd priority would be game stability and memory release processing when someone leaves as one enters into a new chunk..

 

[firewalker101]

Accepting missions & finishing them  success or fail  -- Method type: Stealth
(#) - difficulty, Mission trader gives, Location And then test or fail

 

[Riamus]

what is kind of annoying is the stability when you have 3 or 4 players - if i'm doing a mission 2.3 km away on a level 6 mission minding my own business in the desert and another is doing stuff in forest that may be 3.5 km to 4.5 km away and another player is northern part of the desert 2.3 km  - perhaps 1 is flying or otherwise, the game can freeze . no one can do anything really. either game crashes or freezes indefinitely till i have to force game down.  loading back in, my whole mission resets as if i never started it. We're talking ingame chat in a party using the walkie-talkie function using the Right D-Pad as we all report we're all freezing up.
I could be half way or near the end about to collect that boss loot after 1 to 3 hours on it depending on size of the building, etc and have to now start all over again....

i would say cross play dedicated server - which may or may not offer better stability since it would be likely on a PC server hosting to xbox and PS players - and if still issues, it may be the memory or something else going on which then 2nd priority would be game stability and memory release processing when someone leaves as one enters into a new chunk..

You might want to test this with another person hosting, just to see if it's the host that is having the problem.  For example, if the host doesn't have the game on an SSD drive, then it is going to freeze every 20 minutes for anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes and may freeze at other times as well.  When hosting, this can cause everyone to lose connection or be unable to do anything.  That's just one example, but it does sound like it's a problem with the host.  Their log may also provide useful information.  Yours might as well, if only you have this problem and the others in the game do not.