Roland
Moderator
woah now.... There's supposed to be a measure of anonymity here so please stop throwing out real-life names of mine!
PC v1.x Developer Diary
- Thread starter Crater Creator
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woah now.... There's supposed to be a measure of anonymity here so please stop throwing out real-life names of mine!
I usually get a pot through the forge before finding one. Even without points into Advanced Engineering, it's fairly easy to gather enough Forge Ahead mags to unlock the Forge. Pots are ridiculously cheap to craft.
Jost Amman
Well-known member
You can grow crops underground, but you need a skylight and enough room over for crops to be able to grow (3 blocks).Hello again!
A few more questions, if I dig a bunker and make a greenhouse out of it where I will grow plants, will they grow without sunlight? If not, would it be a good idea to add an extra type of lamp for that purpose. As for the motion sensors, I would install them next to their built base, for the detection zombies. I want a witch who sings a scary song. Solar batteries combined with a battery would give light to my base. Which would evenly illuminate the room. Thank you, everyone! If you made a well from which you could pour water, you could add the function of watering plants, and it turns out that the plants grow without water. Pardon my English friends!
You'll get a 7x7 diamond shaped growing area where you can plant crops centered around this skylight.
thatguybeard
Active member
Is it true though did they change genres? Granted I came a little late to the party but from what I understand the game was always supposed to be a mix of genres. So how can it change if it was never supposed to be one genre? I don’t recall the creators ever saying this was gonna be just a sandbox but sandbox elements as well as RPG elements. RPG elements just got added later.
Roland
Moderator
How can something change genres when it was never a single genre to begin with? The problem with this video is that it presents the devs as arbitrarily deciding halfway through development to change the game into an RPG when the truth is that all of the RPG elements that were added were part of the plan to begin with. This game was always going to be a hybrid survival/RPG/Sandbox game and only those who mistakenly focused only on the Sandbox aspect are surprised or disappointed.
The video is true in the sense that in its basic unfinished state back in 2014 and 2015 the game was mostly sandbox seeing as many of its mechanics were not yet added. Over the following years those mechanics were added and the game became more of a hybrid survival/RPG/Sandbox instead of a pure Sandbox. But the video is false regarding a lot of the motivations and causes for specific design changes that the narrator speculates about. He is obviously exaggerating some things for comedic effect but he also generally comes across as ignorant of the original kickstarter goals and stretch goals.
The original elevator pitch for the game was Minecraft meets the Walking Dead meets Fallout. 11 years later and the game very much fits that original description with elements of Sandbox (Minecraft) Zombie Survival (Walking Dead) and RPG (Fallout) all represented. Apparently the narrator of the video missed the memo that the game wasn't going to remain forever a pure sandbox experience and thought the game was originally intended as a single genre game. Like I said....ignorant.
Matt115
New member
I woudn't say ignorant : he is right about
1. Skill : LBD had much more sense.
2. Water thing
3. Outfits
It was added RPG mechanics since begining - character development is classic RPG thing while are put into another games like Bordelands.
Problem is that now From sandbox/survival with rpg elemets was changed into RPG with Sandbox/ Survival elements. It's drastic change.
You could add quests but without changing POI's into dungeons like in skyrim.
So - when he make it more comedic style he is right- they changed from Survival/sandbox with rpg elements into RPG with survival/sandbox elements.
It's funny to say but 7dtd is now closer to STALKER 2 that to the forest.
thatguybeard
Active member
Hard to be right when all opinion.
1. Both systems make equal sense. One had spam crafting but had no gaining knowledge to learn how to make things better. This one has you getting the knowledge and eliminating the practice. LBD still exists as you do stuff to learn things just eliminated the different buckets. No biggie.
2. Water thing what removing empty glass jars. Favorite argument is realism like would you really carry a mess of glass jars in a world where everything that wants to kill you hunts using sound. Reminds me of the I don’t have to run faster than the bear just you clanky.
3. I’m fine with the outfits. Doesn’t make it any less sandboxy to me.
Also if sandbox means giving many ways to do something well before if I wanted to do POIs by taking a quest, dungeon style, that option wasn’t there. You can still do the POIs without taking a quest, free roam style. More choice more sandbox.
Roland
Moderator
I would because that is being more kind. If he isn’t ignorant than he is intentionally lying for click bait and I’d hate to think someone would do that.
He is right about LBD being better than perk shopping—for himself, but objectively they are just two different systems that accomplish the same thing and are subjectively enjoyed better or worse by different individuals. Interesting that he comes out in favor of LBD when his stance is that the game should have remained a sandbox and never tried to become an RPG in the first place. It’s clear he was looking for some fodder for more sarcasm.
The water thing has nothing to do with the game becoming more RPG. You may not like it but that system isn’t what makes the game more RPG. Few collectors also don’t take 7 days to construct and it has been proven by many players that you can survive without building even one.
The outfit change does constitute a deepening of the RPG aspect of the game but I disagree that it propels the game into being an almost pure RPG with just a smattering of sandbox remaining.
Sorry, my friend, but this is just ignorance if you believe it. I put hundreds of hours into this game before there was any character development at all. You might be able to convince new players that this game had RPG mechanics from the beginning but not me. It was always PLANNED to have RPG mechanics but it wasn’t until Alpha 11 that any RPG-like system was added to the game. It is a drastic change from the days of Alpha 6 to now but that change was always openly talked about and anticipated by many of us who followed the game.
The video is right that the game went from no RPG elements to a lot of RPG elements over time. The video is wrong that the devs randomly decided one day in the middle of development to do that. You’re wrong to say that the game has always had RPG elements.
Maybe but I played for thousands of hours where the buildings were just open interiors and basic layouts. I prefer the dungeons. There are a bunch of buildings called remnants that are open and clear inside just like it was ancient. Yeah, we tend to skip those because they’re boring. You want to fill the world with those? No thanks. Been there and done that with A6 - A16.
He’s right because he’s being mocking and sarcastic? Interesting. Usually that style of “reporting” requires exaggeration and hyperbole to make it work rather than accuracy and fairness.
bluewizard
New member
Open world, RPG or sandbox. Cant we all just say that they took elements from all types and make something unique. They can call their own. Because many game are modelling after this. I can even say this type deserves. Its own class.
bluewizard
New member
How about, RPOWB meaning...
Role playing open world building game.
Or CSOWB game meaning.... Character system open world builder. Just idea
Role playing open world building game.
Or CSOWB game meaning.... Character system open world builder. Just idea
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Arma Rex
Active member
This has nothing to do with genres. Since the kickstarter video, 7 Days to Die has always stated that they would include open-world, sandbox, and RPG elements to the game. The critiques are based more against the progression system, which I do agree is certainly flawed.
However, there's no point to complaining about LBD, the water collection system, or the clothing system, as they will never return to the game. The sooner you accept that, the better, no matter how valid critiques about these systems may be.
Your consistent complaints in this thread about the game systems amount to impotent crying. There's no point to try and get the developers to change how you collect water, or how the character advances in their skills, they've stated time and time again they have no intentions of changing it.
Morloc
Arch Necromancer
I won't deny that it made me chuckle a bit, but mostly because the author exaggerated issues which mostly just raised eyebrows.
Not so much a good critique, but fun satire.
-Arch Necromancer Morloc
Matt115
New member
LBD = you want to be good in mining : became dwarf aka sit in mine all time. You want be good in using bow - use bow all the time : simple and logical
LBL = whatever you want to be good at : find a POI with tons of books. Clean it. Take quest for such POI : do quest and clean it. So it force you to grind POI's to became better in something not connected with "looting poi's". yeah you can mine as well but it's much much much less efective source of EXP.
There was Planned but : if they keept LBD : it would be more "survival" system similair to project zomboid
while here you have typical system from classic RPG like KOTOR : you fixed droid so you shoot better have sense.
And it was both: realistic and have logical sense.
In 7dtd you loot POI because are dungeons so you know there will be loot like in Skyrim:
In project zomboid you know that in most houses you will find "civilians stuff" so there is no sense to loot every POI which is much much better.
thatguybeard
Active member
I think you need to actually play the latest version because it sounds like you think LBD is gone but it’s not.
You want to get better at using the bow use the bow and you’ll gain experience which you can use to perk into being better at using the bow. Same with mining which my experience has been a day of mining has gained me more levels than a day of questing. Nice thing about this version of LBD you can choose to put the point wherever if you want. So if I’m wrapping up my mining week and I go up a level I can put that point into something that will help my next activity. More freedom more sandbox.
Now if you want to get better at making a bow they added LBL on top of the LBD. Perking into bow makes the books more plentiful to get that knowledge. Makes more sense than you figuring out techniques through blind luck of spam crafting.
Game has never forced me to grind POIs. I enter each day with an I do want I want mentality and I’ve never felt like it’s held me back. It is what I love most about this game.
Roland
Moderator
LBL = Learning about better crafting techniques and gaining actual recipes through reading articles you find out in the world is pretty believable when it comes to crafting. LBD could be pretty unbelievable in that regard. Repetition of the same skill does not often inspire new learning. All it does is strengthen the already known skill. As for the skill of using weapons and tools it all depends on how you play. If you want to focus on min/maxing to rush your progression as quickly as possible then skillpoint shopping can certainly become nonsensical since the system does allow you to find the fastest XP-gaining activity and only focus on that to power grind skillpoints that you can then spend on unrelated skills to the activity you were doing.
I don't play that way. I do a variety of activities. By time I earn a skillpoint the xp that contributed to it came from killing, crafting, mining, trading, questing, farming, and building. In other words, I don't play with leveling up as my goal. I set survival related goals and then set about going after those things and as I do I end up performing a variety of activities that I feel increase the skill level of my character. When I spend my points I never feel like I got that point by doing things completely unrelated to the skill I am improving.
If you play the game in a natural way doing those activities that your in-game character would do if they were actually surviving then the skillpoint system feels natural. If you play the game as a player exploiting mechanics to speed level then for sure the system is going to feel unnatural.
The nice thing is that the system supports both ways of playing. It is simply our choice for how we want to play it. Contrary to your claims there is no forcing. I'm proof of that. I've never been forced to play the skill system in the way you describe that the game allegedly forces players to play.
No. There is nothing more or less "survival" about the two RPG progression methods. Either one can be exploited by those prone to exploitation. Sitting in your base for three days doing nothing but crafting stone axes is about as contrary to survival gameplay as you can get but people exploited the LBD of that time by doing just that all to avoid having to ever play with an inferior tool. They didn't want to start playing until they had LBD'd up their tools to max through extremely repetitive action. <shrug>
I don't know what to say Matt. We play differently and I acknowledge that. You seem to be projecting your proclivities onto everyone else. I loot POIs because scavenging is an extremely common trope in zombie movies and television series. I like to roleplay as a survivor going to POIs and finding the stuff I need to craft with. During the first couple of days I usually go to several POIs just for the kitchen loot. I don't go looking for the loot rooms or clear the whole house. I am just focused on getting cook books and a pot and some murky water and food. I'm not saying everyone plays my way but I am certainly proof that not everyone feels forced to go to loot rooms in every POI and play the game like a leveling up simulator.
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
Happy giving of thanks
beerfly
Colony Rounder
Yyyeahh, I am thankful for that one screamer I had last night, digging bhastard, brought its fellas inside my 7x7 base, 3rd floor. In wasteland. The demolisher appearing up there was fun. Lots of debris. And a backpack. On the floor. My backpack.
Don`t let inside doors open, even for a short visit in base.
Darwin was laughing a lot.
Don`t let inside doors open, even for a short visit in base.
Darwin was laughing a lot.
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