PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

DTD was released shortly after MC. Graphic was more close to F.E.A.R or cod WaW ( grey/brown aethethic, buildings style etc.) 7DTD artstyle is like person who was considering that go to IT ( realistic) or engineering ( comic/parody) but considering what want from live so long that finished as night guard on parking. Still better that crackhead ( Night of the Dead) yet i think it's not something to be proud of. About broken bones or blood moon - i will give you Uncharted as example - one of dev expalin that you character never get bulllet "canonical" during gameplay only during cutscene and "lose of health" is just " lose of luck" - damn Drake is the luckiest man alive if he can is not shot buy guy using shotgun point blank. Yet it's realisitic about logic - if there is ww2 base : you can find mp40 near german corpse. So yeah there is magic etc. yet... what should be realisitc is realitic - i don't think you would find M16 in XVI century ship wrecks. 

And in 7D2D you would NOT find an MP40 near a german soldier corpse. Surprise !! If you get lucky a dev of 7D2D will explain to you why you see so many similar zombies and there is a blood moon, and I will guarantee you that that explanation will be as realistic as the explanation of magic exisitng in Unchartered. .

What was the explanation for the existence of magic in Unchartered again? There was none? Thought so.

But returing to 7dtd - started in realistic style - pois design, props, weapon models, enemy models etc. just there is totaly change of style since dunno A19? 

That argument gets you included into my internal list "found out about EA too late" .

But 7D2d started with very few models of zombies and never changed that. So you should be pleased, at least they didn't change that. .

See, you only refer to old alphas as setting rules when it suits you. But the thing is, old alphas do not set any rules. I am sure nobody inside TFP will care about anything that was in alpha4 and neither will they listen about you complaining about style changes that happened after some prototype version

About writing to Faatal: i don't think that ping him will cause that he answer to this post after all. Devs were piged pretty often previosly ( idk if something change during halve of year) so it's likely it will be ignored. You are Mod here so you are probably in more direct contact with devs. If you want to join him into disccusion you can DM him. I will gladly explain him my point of view. 

What you can hope for is that they read your opinion.

The only mod with a direct contact to devs is Crator Creator now. Even worse, what you discuss with me or anyone else is even more likely to be ignored. Because they assume (AFAIK) that any replies are part of some conversation and argument between players. And they don't have time to read all that stuff. I am also pretty sure that Faatal is DM'd so often that he simply ignores DMs.

 

[Matt115]

And in 7D2D you would NOT find an MP40 near a german soldier corpse. Surprise !! If you get lucky a dev of 7D2D will explain to you why you see so many similar zombies and there is a blood moon, and I will guarantee you that that explanation will be as realistic as the explanation of magic exisitng in Unchartered. .

<sign> I mean that you can expect realism - if you find german corpse from ww2 you expect mp40 not famas right?  Because famas was made much more later

Even more!  Metro is post-apo series of games - there are ghosts, paranormal gates, mutated evolution of humans. Yet because it's set in Russia - you find russian weapons. What do you expect to find near corpse of russian soldier? make from junk shotgun? No - AK because there is no  sense for that. While 7dtd - in cut from outside world secret bunker after sealed door with military box you will find gun made from random pipes which totaly doesn't have sense

That argument gets you included into my internal list "found out about EA too late" .

But 7D2d started with very few models of zombies and never changed that. So you should be pleased, at least they didn't change that. .

See, you only refer to old alphas as setting rules when it suits you. But the thing is, old alphas do not set any rules. I am sure nobody inside TFP will care about anything that was in alpha4 and neither will they listen about you complaining about style changes that happened after some prototype version

Medieval Dynasty - this same style since release. terraria? similiar situation. Conan? again. Ark similiar, Contagion this same story.  Even project zomboid which get change from 2d into 3d keep original style

What you can hope for is that they read your opinion.

The only mod with a direct contact to devs is Crator Creator now. Even worse, what you discuss with me or anyone else is even more likely to be ignored. Because they assume (AFAIK) that any replies are part of some conversation and argument between players. And they don't have time to read all that stuff. I am also pretty sure that Faatal is DM'd so often that he simply ignores DMs.

You : you should tell this too faatal.

Me: he won't read it

You : you know he won't read it? 

Me: this exactly what i'm saying

 

[BFT2020]

You : you should tell this too faatal.

Me: he won't read it

You : you know he won't read it? 

Me: this exactly what i'm saying

faatal responds to people that tag him, he has been doing that for some time now.  He reads things that members tag him on, and most of the time, he responds to it.  It may not be the response you want, but he does read things brought to his attention.

 

[meganoth]

<sign> I mean that you can expect realism - if you find german corpse from ww2 you expect mp40 not famas right?  Because famas was made much more later

Even more!  Metro is post-apo series of games - there are ghosts, paranormal gates, mutated evolution of humans. Yet because it's set in Russia - you find russian weapons. What do you expect to find near corpse of russian soldier? make from junk shotgun? No - AK because there is no  sense for that.

No, you can't expect realism with THIS game. And you can list hundreds of other games where some parts have internal consistency or are realistic and others are not and it does mean sh** with THIS game.

While 7dtd - in cut from outside world secret bunker after sealed door with military box you will find gun made from random pipes which totaly doesn't have sense

Yes, but what you don't see is that this is not an accident, not a bug, not something that will be corrected because you tell them. You will find a pipe weapon in a military bunker and you will find it there in the release version as well. I can almost guarantee you that, as much as a random user on this forum can.

Medieval Dynasty - this same style since release. terraria? similiar situation. Conan? again. Ark similiar, Contagion this same story.  Even project zomboid which get change from 2d into 3d keep original style

Who cares? You don't seem to understand that a developer can be different from other developers, can develop his games differently. Ask Steam if they object and they will tell you they don't. Ask the terraria developers if they object and they will tell you they wont . Nobody at TFP cares what the ark developers did or did not. It doesn't make a precedent that needs to be followed, there is no rule about it.

I mean, did you protest to project zomboid that they changed from 2d to 3d? You could have told them that "Terraria didn't, Conan didn't, Ark didn't, Contagion didn't change from 2d to 3d. So how can you do that?". They would have given you the same answer that TFP would.

You : you should tell this too faatal.

Me: he won't read it

You : you know he won't read it? 

Me: this exactly what i'm saying

Interesting. Which was the part where I did something similar to asking you "you know he won't read it?" in the part you quoted?

 

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

I believe that it will be an attachment. 

Oh, thank God! I was so tired of never running them over due to damaging my vehicles and having those things on.

 

[beerfly]

Would we get some improvement in vehicle`s driving physics, behaviour on jumps, hills and stuff in A22 ? 

and can we presume with it attached that hitting things (+zombies) you would get less damage?

This ^

An armor attachment, but for vehicles. 

 

[Professor-Pip]

An armor attachment, but for vehicles. 

Since we have an armor attachment for the drone, I don't see why this wouldn't be something similar for the 4x4. Makes sense.

 

[Old Crow]

• Exploding vehicles spawn a loot bag of contents
  

THANK you!

 

[falloutcloud]

I really enjoy RWG. I think it's one of the best parts of the game to be able to always have a new world to explore. However, I do wish that I could paint a map with where I want the desert, forest, wasteland, and snow biomes to be. I could plot where I want small, medium, large, and x-large cities. And to draw the roads on how I want them to connect. Right now the roads look a ton better than previous alphas but still do some crazy stuff that makes no sense. Like why do I have 2 cities close together but the road that connects them has to go all the way around the map first?

 

[beerfly]

• Exploding vehicles spawn a loot bag of contents
  

THANK you!

Me : franticly making a storage chest to be able to put all my @%$# back because I have no free slots available in my inventory, after a bump in a trolley. 

Wondering wolf : Nope !

 

[RipClaw]

• BuffInjuryBleedingCooldown that adds BuffResistance after bleeding buffs to help reduce consecutive bleeds
  

This is my favorite change. It's ridiculous how often you bleed in A21. Especially in the big final fights in T5 and T6 quests.
 

 

[Old Crow]

• BuffInjuryBleedingCooldown that adds BuffResistance after bleeding buffs to help reduce consecutive bleeds
  

This is my favorite change. It's ridiculous how often you bleed in A21. Especially in the big final fights in T5 and T6 quests.
 

Thank @%$#ing god. Now they just need to fix breaks and sprains for real. So tired of getting hit in the leg and getting a broken arm and vice-versa.

The fifth player is strapped to the grill of the car in MadMax style.
 

Spoiler

Or, the fifth player is under the hood, pulling the 4x4 along. No engine!

 

[meganoth]

I really enjoy RWG. I think it's one of the best parts of the game to be able to always have a new world to explore. However, I do wish that I could paint a map with where I want the desert, forest, wasteland, and snow biomes to be. I could plot where I want small, medium, large, and x-large cities. And to draw the roads on how I want them to connect. Right now the roads look a ton better than previous alphas but still do some crazy stuff that makes no sense. Like why do I have 2 cities close together but the road that connects them has to go all the way around the map first?

In longer games I tend to build roads, tunnels or bridges to connect places that are near but separated. An in-game function to build continuosly along a line while holding the mouse button would be beneficial for this

 

[beerfly]

In longer games I tend to build roads, tunnels or bridges to connect places that are near but separated. An in-game function to build continuosly along a line while holding the mouse button would be beneficial for this

This is the most fantastic thing in this game. Building or manipulating ground is not up to just doing a horde base or something. Once a one realises that you can do a tunnel under you zombie neighbour`s house and the whole town is something else. 

We play in fully destructible world and it is one of the best parts in 7 days to die. LIke a vital organ that we can`t go further without. 

 

[Matt115]

faatal responds to people that tag him, he has been doing that for some time now.  He reads things that members tag him on, and most of the time, he responds to it.  It may not be the response you want, but he does read things brought to his attention.

I will thx 

No, you can't expect realism with THIS game. And you can list hundreds of other games where some parts have internal consistency or are realistic and others are not and it does mean sh** with THIS game.

Yes, but what you don't see is that this is not an accident, not a bug, not something that will be corrected because you tell them. You will find a pipe weapon in a military bunker and you will find it there in the release version as well. I can almost guarantee you that, as much as a random user on this forum can.

And this what i'm saying about bad design

I mean, did you protest to project zomboid that they changed from 2d to 3d? You could have told them that "Terraria didn't, Conan didn't, Ark didn't, Contagion didn't change from 2d to 3d. So how can you do that?". They would have given you the same answer that TFP would.

No. why? because.... devs pretty fast told they would in future do this into 3d but you know lack of money etc. 7DTD had describtion that suggest that they are going to be... serious at least for this years standards - most assets was looking literaly like taken from zombie panic! source. So - if something looks like cat, sounds like cats then it's a cat or horse? 

Interesting. Which was the part where I did something similar to asking you "you know he won't read it?" in the part you quoted?

I undestood this from your comment

 

[meganoth]

And this what i'm saying about bad design

It seems they disagree. This is similar to you encouraging a **successful** corn farmer to change to yucca farming while having never grown yucca yourself.

 7DTD had describtion that suggest that they are going to be... serious at least for this years standards

You read what you wanted to read. I find nothing in the description that suggests any of that.

Check out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game

There is not a single mention of the word "dark" in there, there is nothing at all talking about seriousness/darkness or humor at all. Meanwhile their company name is "Fun Pimps". I'd say 1:0 for me.

The steam page has the sentence "Set in a brutally unforgiving post-apocalyptic world..." that just means "difficult" to my ears, the "brutally" is embelishing the word "unforgiving" here. This is the only sentence that even remotely could be read in the way you are suggesting, if my interpretation of it were wrong.

If you disagree, please post where you found that description you are talking about.

most assets was looking literaly like taken from zombie panic! source. So - if something looks like cat, sounds like cats then it's a cat or horse? 

Most assets were bought from the Unity store and were placeholders. If something is unfinished then it might look like a cat but grows into a horse. So yes, it probably is a horse now.

It is even possible that TFP wanted a more serious game at first. But even if that were true, they were completely free to change their mind as they never promised a dark serious game.

I undestood this from your comment

What I said was that you can talk to the devs directly by making an initial post (not a reply to someone) in this dev diary and they might read it. But discussing something with me, even in this same thread, will likely be ignored by them. And my "mod" status is irrelevant for this. (Likely they already know your opinion anyway by now, so repeating it every time is probaby superfluous by now, you only get one "vote")

That they actually read some of this is proven by the fact that some time after you started posting in this forum suddenly a few skeletons and a news stand appeared in the game and I think one of the POI designers posted a picture of the newsstand in a reply to you.

 

[Matt115]

It seems they disagree. This is similar to you encouraging a **successful** corn farmer to change to yucca farming while having never grown yucca yourself.

You read what you wanted to read. I find nothing in the description that suggests any of that.

Check out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game

There is not a single mention of the word "dark" in there, there is nothing at all talking about seriousness/darkness or humor at all. Meanwhile their company name is "Fun Pimps". I'd say 1:0 for me.

The steam page has the sentence "Set in a brutally unforgiving post-apocalyptic world..." that just means "difficult" to my ears, the "brutally" is embelishing the word "unforgiving" here. This is the only sentence that even remotely could be read in the way you are suggesting, if my interpretation of it were wrong.

If you disagree, please post where you found that description you are talking about.

About steam page  and 7dtd : it's not first descibtion.  it was edited - during A21:    Improve – Increase your skills in 5 major disciplines with a multitude of perks under each attribute. Gain additional skills by reading over 100 books. 7 Days to Die is the only true survival RPG.

this mention LBL which is not descibtion from 2013  



There is "survival horror" -  definition :

survival horror refers to a subgenre of survival video games that includes horror game elements.[5][6][7] The player character is vulnerable and under-armed,[8] which puts emphasis on puzzle-solving and evasion, rather than the player taking an offensive strategy.[9] Games commonly challenge the player to manage their inventory[10] and ration scarce resources such as ammunition.[8][9] Another major theme throughout the genre is that of isolation. Typically, these games contain relatively few non-player characters and, as a result, frequently tell much of their story second-hand through the usage of journals, texts, or audio logs.[11]

While many action games feature lone protagonists versus swarms of enemies in a suspenseful environment,[12] survival horror games are distinct from otherwise horror-themed action games.[13][14] They tend to de-emphasize combat in favor of challenges such as hiding or running from enemies and solving puzzles.[12] Still, it is not unusual for survival horror games to draw upon elements from first-person shooters, or even role-playing games.[5] According to IGN, "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy."[11]

so :  let's use games which was released before/during 7dtd release as examples: Resiedent evil, Clock tower, penumbra, cryostasis, rule of rose, silent hill, dino crysis. what is common thing for that games? Keep themself serious, dark and realistic ( by this in meaning that world of game is reflection of our world... elements - in cryostasis all "frozen ones" use Soviet weaponry suitable for this period of time. rule of rose clothes are suitable to this period, SH is in style of typical USA city - so in cryostasis there is no m16 , rule of rose character doesn't wear medieval clothes or in SH there is not post-soviet style buildings) 

is unforgiving suitable to this type of games as well : re is hard game, this same rest of them: which is part of survival horror - always lack of ammo, low number of medkits, force to avoid enemies etc. to create more horrific feeling

So: for me this good enough to consider this in that way - is No more room in hell 1 survival game (mod)? yes. Is zombie panic zombie " survival horror" yeah. is... fallout survivor horror? not realy. Is rage survival horror? not realy. Is stalker survival horror? nope. 

7dtd was looking on gameplay on screens on trailers like "surival horror" in open world. Not like rage or fallout 1 2 3. Just like classic "source " survival horror ( source because games/mods survival horrors had specific vibe as first alphas). Now 7dtd have more... "satire"/not serious style. Similiar situation to serious  Dead rising 1 and satire dead rising  4.

What I said was that you can talk to the devs directly by making an initial post (not a reply to someone) in this dev diary and they might read it. But discussing something with me, even in this same thread, will likely be ignored by them. And my "mod" status is irrelevant for this. (Likely they already know your opinion anyway by now, so repeating it every time is probaby superfluous by now, you only get one "vote")

That they actually read some of this is proven by the fact that some time after you started posting in this forum suddenly a few skeletons and a news stand appeared in the game and I think one of the POI designers posted a picture of the newsstand in a reply to you.

i will make Later longer post directly too Faatal 

 

[BFT2020]

There is "survival horror" -  definition :

survival horror refers to a subgenre of survival video games that includes horror game elements.[5][6][7] The player character is vulnerable and under-armed,[8] which puts emphasis on puzzle-solving and evasion, rather than the player taking an offensive strategy.[9] Games commonly challenge the player to manage their inventory[10] and ration scarce resources such as ammunition.[8][9] Another major theme throughout the genre is that of isolation. Typically, these games contain relatively few non-player characters and, as a result, frequently tell much of their story second-hand through the usage of journals, texts, or audio logs.[11]

While many action games feature lone protagonists versus swarms of enemies in a suspenseful environment,[12] survival horror games are distinct from otherwise horror-themed action games.[13][14] They tend to de-emphasize combat in favor of challenges such as hiding or running from enemies and solving puzzles.[12] Still, it is not unusual for survival horror games to draw upon elements from first-person shooters, or even role-playing games.[5] According to IGN, "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy."[11]

Last sentence:  "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined [SIZE=14.6px]strictly[/SIZE] by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy" Bold is my emphasis.

The genre has evolved over time, with the more recent games out there starting to emphasis combat more.   Sure 7 days to die is not a pure survival horror game, but as you pointed out earlier in your post, the developers have stated that it is a mashup of First Person shooter, survival horror, Tower defense and Role Playing.  They never stated it was a pure survival horror game.

 

[meganoth]

About steam page  and 7dtd : it's not first descibtion.  it was edited - during A21:    Improve – Increase your skills in 5 major disciplines with a multitude of perks under each attribute. Gain additional skills by reading over 100 books. 7 Days to Die is the only true survival RPG.

this mention LBL which is not descibtion from 2013  

View attachment 28681

There is "survival horror" -  definition :

survival horror refers to a subgenre of survival video games that includes horror game elements.[5][6][7] The player character is vulnerable and under-armed,[8] which puts emphasis on puzzle-solving and evasion, rather than the player taking an offensive strategy.[9] Games commonly challenge the player to manage their inventory[10] and ration scarce resources such as ammunition.[8][9] Another major theme throughout the genre is that of isolation. Typically, these games contain relatively few non-player characters and, as a result, frequently tell much of their story second-hand through the usage of journals, texts, or audio logs.[11]

While many action games feature lone protagonists versus swarms of enemies in a suspenseful environment,[12] survival horror games are distinct from otherwise horror-themed action games.[13][14] They tend to de-emphasize combat in favor of challenges such as hiding or running from enemies and solving puzzles.[12] Still, it is not unusual for survival horror games to draw upon elements from first-person shooters, or even role-playing games.[5] According to IGN, "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy."[11]

so :  let's use games which was released before/during 7dtd release as examples: Resiedent evil, Clock tower, penumbra, cryostasis, rule of rose, silent hill, dino crysis. what is common thing for that games? Keep themself serious, dark and realistic ( by this in meaning that world of game is reflection of our world... elements - in cryostasis all "frozen ones" use Soviet weaponry suitable for this period of time. rule of rose clothes are suitable to this period, SH is in style of typical USA city - so in cryostasis there is no m16 , rule of rose character doesn't wear medieval clothes or in SH there is not post-soviet style buildings) 

is unforgiving suitable to this type of games as well : re is hard game, this same rest of them: which is part of survival horror - always lack of ammo, low number of medkits, force to avoid enemies etc. to create more horrific feeling

So: for me this good enough to consider this in that way - is No more room in hell 1 survival game (mod)? yes. Is zombie panic zombie " survival horror" yeah. is... fallout survivor horror? not realy. Is rage survival horror? not realy. Is stalker survival horror? nope. 

7dtd was looking on gameplay on screens on trailers like "surival horror" in open world. Not like rage or fallout 1 2 3. Just like classic "source " survival horror ( source because games/mods survival horrors had specific vibe as first alphas). Now 7dtd have more... "satire"/not serious style. Similiar situation to serious  Dead rising 1 and satire dead rising  4.

i will make Later longer post directly too Faatal 

Good catch, the steam page was changed. Theoretically the kickstarter page could have changed as well.

Did you read that "definition" you posted? There are words like "commonly" "typically", "frequently", "tend to", "is not unusual" in almost every sentence. Once you have a few of those properties you probably can call your game "horror survival". It certainly would be wrong to call 7D2D a pure survival horror game, I would prefer to call it a "survival , horror" game. Or what TFP did there, call it a "mash-up of " multiple genres as some parts of those genres might not survive the "mashing up".

So i went to steam and searched for games with the tag "survival horror". And among many dark and sinister games there was also "Don't starve together", which is schock full of humor. And "Secret neighbor" which also has many of the properties of "survival horror" but again is more on the funny side. But both surely fit unter "survival horror".

 

[Roland]

Just like any dedicated survival game or dedicated role playing game or dedicated farming game or dedicated stealth game or dedicated shooting game or dedicated melee fighting game or dedicated sandbox game or dedicated survival horror game, 7 Days to Die will come up short by comparison because it is a mixture of elements from those games. 
 

People who are survival horror mega-fans will be bothered by the lack of depth in that area while everyone else will think it’s great. It’s just like how stealth game fans are bothered by the stealth in this game while casual fans of stealth gameplay are perfectly happy with that aspect of the game. Farm nuts are less than thrilled by farming in this game while all the rest are okay with the level of farming in the game. Survival-philes are constantly begging for item degradation and food spoilage and more scarcity whereas everyone else is pleased as punch their weapon lasts forever. 
 

The game is never going to reach the level of dedicated survival horror that you want because it is but one of many elements that make up this game and the devs only sprinkled the game with it.