PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

Obsessive Compulsive said:
Ohhh?  What I noticed was your animation rate versus physics updates and transforms are all done OOP...
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The game tick rate is .05 ms, so that might be what your were seeing. Don't know where you got .01 from as most code runs at frame rate, physics fixed update rate .02 ms, or the previously mentioned tick rate.

We are trying to finish A21, so certainly not wanting to make large engine changes now.

I didn't get some of the other things you were saying, but thanks for info.

 
faatal said:
The game tick rate is .05 ms, so that might be what your were seeing. Don't know where you got .01 from as most code runs at frame rate, physics fixed update rate .02 ms, or the previously mentioned tick rate.

We are trying to finish A21, so certainly not wanting to make large engine changes now.

I didn't get some of the other things you were saying, but thanks for info.
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Thanks for the details. That definitely makes more sense.

The 0.01 is the unity update tick rate? Unless I am mistaken. The tick rate of the update phase coming out of the engine is 0.01.

Oh you update physics at a different pace. Interesting. Maybe this changed for a21 or a later version? That is great to hear. Fixed update and update phase should definitely be utilized just as you mentioned. I must have misread the code. Currently I am updating it all at one time as that seemed to be how entities were handled. I do not run updates on entities every frame though, I do however run the gmUpdate method every frame and a faster rate.

I will have to take another look. It looked like the positions, physics, animations and stats were updating every tick for entities and triggered from the 0.01 unity update phase tick. This update tick triggers the gmUpdate method. Something else may have paced that down to 0.05 as you said. It was a little confusing how it was approached. Some sort of split list approach with entity in particular threw me off.

I took over gmUpdate using harmony and isolated the entity update section that triggers from it. I do not run the entity slice and split entity update the way you had it since I was able to utilize that 0.01 unity tick rate more efficiently and it looked like it was more or less to catch up on missed entities due to running too long during the update process. Since I am aiming to keep the tick runtime under 0.01, I can run multiple updates of the entire gmUpdate method within the same time frame of 0.05 that you are currently using. When I allowed the entity to update on every single tick at the 0.01 rate, things were moving around at super sonic speeds. The animations surprisingly keep up until it runs out of ai pathing, then gets stuck running in place. This might be one reason things are getting stuck in game at rare times. High lag and the server failing to keep the path up to date, might get them stuck in place as their animations out pace it. Something out paces the data available for sure, so they run in place at that point.

By using a combination of multi thread during certain phases for the player update, I can keep their runtime under 0.01 even with larger player counts.

As you stated, you are targeting a 0.05-0.06 time frame window. Since I am aiming for 0.01 as a max runtime per tick, I can split the work across that 0.05 time frame and update specific entities or do specific tasks within each tick, so long as I aim to keep them below that 0.01 runtime which, at least in testing seems to match the update tick from unity that triggers the gmUpdate.

In testing, I found I was able to run ten ticks at 0.01 and keep the animation flow to match your current game state, ai was more in tune to player movements and pathing around them, network is updated more frequent so you get less bottlenecking with packet dumps. You have multiple ticks to work with so you can focus on chunk sync to unity which is part of that gmUpdate method and gets a bit heavy with high player counts, but this keeps chunks loading really smooth around players.

When I say I run a tick, that means running the gmUpdate method fully, however I am isolating the entity update section of gmUpdate. I run ten ticks at 0.01, total equaling 0.1 time frame approx. Only players update on tick 1 and 6. They update completely, entire list both times. That utilizes multi threading as I phased certain sections like the physics which is mostly in the EntityAlive.OnUpdateLive sections of EntityAlive types. I do this with players to keep a better consistency of the movement that other players see. PvP is dramatically improved but so are the general hitbox responses due to keeping closer in sync. I hope the netcode improvements from a21 will really boost that for us. Exciting!

The physics for non alive types are mostly in the Entity.OnUpdate. I update non players single threaded but I divide the work across four ticks so tick 2 3 4 5 are for non players. If there were 100 entity to update, 25 are updated in each tick. Spreading the ai burden. This is why I am thrilled about your updates with AI since the combination with what I am trying out, equals a lot of zombies. I don't see why 400 zombies would not be possible with 100 updated across the four ticks. That should fit inside the runtimes. Tick 7 8 9 10 are for the chunk syncs to unity.

When I made it run 12 ticks, I was able to see a momentary stutter in the animation flow of the characters vs the network updates. This was very similar to when high lag and large entity counts will stutter the updates of entity normally. You also start to see a lag in the ai response while moving around the zombies. 10 ticks seems to be the limit which is 0.1 overall so long as I keep my runtimes below 0.01 for each tick. Currently the game runtime is often going well above 0.1 when large player counts or high entity numbers exist, which not only misses your 0.05 runtime rate but starts to bottleneck the netcode with multiple events getting updating at one time on the player side. It starts to look like warping.

One other trick I attempted was sector work. Splitting the map to five sectors. Update each sector with a different core handling all the entity of that sector single threaded but simultaneous to each other running their own sectors. Then run the last sector on the main which would be the middle grounds between the sectors. This would avoid physics collisions and overlaps while spreading the work. Only issue there is it does not address bottlenecking within a single sector. It would penalize all of them and so the advantages would be reduced, but typically one core was trying to update all of them, so it has to benefit in some manner.

There are two sections if isolated to avoid overlaps, they can be multi threaded. By that I mean running just the Entity.OnUpdate as its own phase and the OnUpdateLive sections as its own phase. It is tricky due to the overrides and how it is coded into the rest of the entity update process, but it can be done. It breaks the OOP pattern though so I know what you mean. You are not going to change the code now and I wouldn't dare suggest you need to. In general, this is not something I would expect you guys to ever do from the whims of some random forum post guy haha. This is your baby, I am just letting you know what I have found in testing so far.

If you multi thread these as phases you just need to be cautious of anything spawning, despawning, unloading chunks which in turn unload the entity. Of course double check for race conditions from static lists or anything you might modify while another thread is using the data. You do not want to be running your physics/collision checks and have something change position or despawn. It will crash the engine as I have experienced a lot of. To avoid this while I am updating multi threaded, I make sure the UnloadEntities method from the World class is run inside of the main thread task queue from your thread manager class. I am also running the main thread tasks twice inside of the gmUpdate method that I took over. Once in the original spot you have it placed but another right after the entity update section so that anything I toss at the main thread queue will stay inside the frame time.

You guys have a ton of awesome tools and systems that work really well together. A+. Would love to see the job system in action. I am still learning how it functions.

Sorry for the long post. I thought it would be best to give better explanations this time

 
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As someone who loves - streams - creates POIs for and creates content about the game - I'd just like to chime in as a female player who is a HUGE fan of 7 days. Just like all you gents out there, I TOO feel the same emotions, the same excitement, the same hype, the same anticipation as you do about everything 7 days. I TOO have been looking forward to these dev streams! Just like you, when they started showing the lineup of character art during the art dev stream, I too was sitting on the edge of my seat, excited to see what was coming. 

So then they started going through one model after another, the artist fondly talking about all the cool little details and Easter eggs he'd added to the male characters. I thought to myself "Oh daaaammmnnn, if the MALE characters are THIS cool, I can-not WAIT to see the female characters!" Then when he finally got around to showing them, I mean it - out of all the variations, he decided to show the "boobies busting out her top" variation.

I wondered to myself: Was there a moment earlier in the day, where the devs discussed which variations to showcase on the stream? Were they saying things like: 

"Ok team, let's make sure to give some appreciation and love to our many female players out there and choose a really nice female player character to show them! They're gonna be so thrilled!"

or... did they say: 

"Duuuuude! Let's show our boys some eye candy, why don't we!? They're gonna looove the rack on this desert character! *giggity*!"

If they would have shown additional normal female characters, there wouldn't have been a problem! But that was it. Just the big boobies and then they moved on. Where were the female characters that had as much personality and attention to detail as say the packrat dude for instance? Where was a female character that "told a backstory". All we saw were just big solid implanted boobs. And then that was it. Nuttin' else. I have to admit: it was a deflating moment to say the least.

Listen: Let me make something absolutely clear 'kay? I absolutely DO NOT mind a game having hottie outfits for female characters in games. God knows how many hours I invested hunting for the skanky outfits in Anarchy Online and WoW back in the day. I also don't mind the only female trader in the game being a cutie called Jen who flirts with me from time to time. I don't even mind the fact that there are SEVERAL strip joints in the game catering to the gents out there. Heck, 7 days wouldn't be the same without the rough humor. I luvs it! (although, I wouldn't mind seeing a "The Stud Farm", "The Muscle Mansion", "The Beefcake Bungalow" or a "Hunk Haven" POI appear for us ladies one of these days. POI designers: Make it happen! You know you wanna!

What I do mind however is the at-times deaf tone and clueless attitudes in regards to making female players feel appreciated, included and welcomed. I remember when I started playing 7 days, one of the first things I noticed was that the traders addressed my female character as if she were a man. Then I remember the first time I saw Joel on stream... Honest question: What's the ONE THING your eyes zap to when he's on screen? The naked lady painting on his wall. I mean my god, it's a frickin' gorgeous painting, it really is! But that's beside the point. What makes this problematic is that a) It's highly unprofessional and has no place on a dev stream b) It creates a horn-dog-buzz amongst the male chatters and this can feel disturbing for female players just trying to focus on the information.

In the very least, it would be considerate if devs could at least avoid reacting to comments about the painting and just choose to focus on one of the other hundreds of comments that are actually about the dev stuff instead. When devs react to comments about the painting, it's like validating the horn dogs in chat and saying "Hey dudes, it's absolutely fine that you continue chatting about naked ladies. We don't need to care about how our female audience will feel or whether they will be creeped out or unwelcome!" Devs should be better than that, and lead by example. Instead of encouraging that sort of behavior.

There will be those of you who say: "Female players don't matter since the target audience is and always has been male" - Choosing a target audience is fine. But it can still be done in such way that doesn't make literally half of the population feel excluded and unwelcome at the same time. Besides, look at how many female streamers there are that stream this game. Isn't it time that females became a valued and respected part of the target audience?

At the end of the day, none of the things I mentioned are very serious or disturbing on their own, the problem is how it all starts to add up. A real shame as this game has so much potential to be enjoyed by everyone equally.

 
KatsPurr said:
As someone who loves - streams - creates POIs for and creates content about the game - I'd just like to chime in as a female player who is a HUGE fan of 7 days. Just like all you gents out there, I TOO feel the same emotions, the same excitement, the same hype, the same anticipation as you do about everything 7 days. I TOO have been looking forward to these dev streams! Just like you, when they started showing the lineup of character art during the art dev stream, I too was sitting on the edge of my seat, excited to see what was coming. 

So then they started going through one model after another, the artist fondly talking about all the cool little details and Easter eggs he'd added to the male characters. I thought to myself "Oh daaaammmnnn, if the MALE characters are THIS cool, I can-not WAIT to see the female characters!" Then when he finally got around to showing them, I mean it - out of all the variations, he decided to show the "boobies busting out her top" variation.

I wondered to myself: Was there a moment earlier in the day, where the devs discussed which variations to showcase on the stream? Were they saying things like: 

"Ok team, let's make sure to give some appreciation and love to our many female players out there and choose a really nice female player character to show them! They're gonna be so thrilled!"

or... did they say: 

"Duuuuude! Let's show our boys some eye candy, why don't we!? They're gonna looove the rack on this desert character! *giggity*!"

If they would have shown additional normal female characters, there wouldn't have been a problem! But that was it. Just the big boobies and then they moved on. Where were the female characters that had as much personality and attention to detail as say the packrat dude for instance? Where was a female character that "told a backstory". All we saw were just big solid implanted boobs. And then that was it. Nuttin' else. I have to admit: it was a deflating moment to say the least.

Listen: Let me make something absolutely clear 'kay? I absolutely DO NOT mind a game having hottie outfits for female characters in games. God knows how many hours I invested hunting for the skanky outfits in Anarchy Online and WoW back in the day. I also don't mind the only female trader in the game being a cutie called Jen who flirts with me from time to time. I don't even mind the fact that there are SEVERAL strip joints in the game catering to the gents out there. Heck, 7 days wouldn't be the same without the rough humor. I luvs it! (although, I wouldn't mind seeing a "The Stud Farm", "The Muscle Mansion", "The Beefcake Bungalow" or a "Hunk Haven" POI appear for us ladies one of these days. POI designers: Make it happen! You know you wanna!

What I do mind however is the at-times deaf tone and clueless attitudes in regards to making female players feel appreciated, included and welcomed. I remember when I started playing 7 days, one of the first things I noticed was that the traders addressed my female character as if she were a man. Then I remember the first time I saw Joel on stream... Honest question: What's the ONE THING your eyes zap to when he's on screen? The naked lady painting on his wall. I mean my god, it's a frickin' gorgeous painting, it really is! But that's beside the point. What makes this problematic is that a) It's highly unprofessional and has no place on a dev stream b) It creates a horn-dog-buzz amongst the male chatters and this can feel disturbing for female players just trying to focus on the information.

In the very least, it would be considerate if devs could at least avoid reacting to comments about the painting and just choose to focus on one of the other hundreds of comments that are actually about the dev stuff instead. When devs react to comments about the painting, it's like validating the horn dogs in chat and saying "Hey dudes, it's absolutely fine that you continue chatting about naked ladies. We don't need to care about how our female audience will feel or whether they will be creeped out or unwelcome!" Devs should be better than that, and lead by example. Instead of encouraging that sort of behavior.

There will be those of you who say: "Female players don't matter since the target audience is and always has been male" - Choosing a target audience is fine. But it can still be done in such way that doesn't make literally half of the population feel excluded and unwelcome at the same time. Besides, look at how many female streamers there are that stream this game. Isn't it time that females became a valued and respected part of the target audience?

At the end of the day, none of the things I mentioned are very serious or disturbing on their own, the problem is how it all starts to add up. A real shame as this game has so much potential to be enjoyed by everyone equally.
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I 100% get what you're saying. It would have been nice to show some other female armor variations, assuming they had them ready yet. Maybe that's why they only showed that one (of course the boob one would be the one finished first if that were the case).

That said, there were a few ladies in the audience who commented on the male character models, particularly the one in his skivvies. Something to the effect of "Finally, some eye candy for the ladies!" This unfortunately creates a double standard. It's okay for the ladies to comment like that (as well they should be okay to comment thusly), but the boys can't say anything? On your side here, just something interesting to think about.

 
Old Crow said:
This unfortunately creates a double standard. It's okay for the ladies to comment like that (as well they should be okay to comment thusly), but the boys can't say anything? On your side here, just something interesting to think about.
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Yeah double standards suck. We can't control how regular players are going to behave. People will be people and will say whatever they want regardless of gender - especially on the Internet. However, what can be improved is how devs choose to present themselves, their work, and how they speak to the player base. That's the main point I was trying to bring across. 

 
I personally hate it when people start dissecting every little thing about a game, sex of mc, character models, skin colour. The game is a vision of the developers and if they envision a zombie apocalypse with female characters wearing only beachwear, well kudos to them, as long as they are not being disrespectful. And I have to tell you that female character model looks like she was given a lot of respect :)

 
KatsPurr said:
At the end of the day, none of the things I mentioned are very serious or disturbing on their own, the problem is how it all starts to add up. A real shame as this game has so much potential to be enjoyed by everyone equally.
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I would take you much more seriously if you'd change your nickname to something other than "KatsPurr"... grrroww!  :heh:

On a more serious note: I think that part of the reason the dev team is like it is, it's because they can't change who they are. A man can struggle and force himself to try and see things from a female perspective, but it's hard as hell. In my opinion, to achieve what you ask, they should also hire a senior female artist/modeler. Then you'd probably see much more artistic and character content that would be nice from a female perspective.

Just to make you understand, I'm so obtusely "man-ish" that I can't help scrapping into paint every single pink dye I find!  :sad:   :lol:

 
KatsPurr said:
If they would have shown additional normal female characters, there wouldn't have been a problem! But that was it. Just the big boobies and then they moved on. Where were the female characters that had as much personality and attention to detail as say the packrat dude for instance? Where was a female character that "told a backstory". All we saw were just big solid implanted boobs. And then that was it. Nuttin' else. I have to admit: it was a deflating moment to say the least.
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There is not such things because game is simple as Doom or Minecraft. So - don't expect this will change into the last of us xd

 
KatsPurr said:
I wouldn't mind seeing a "The Stud Farm", "The Muscle Mansion", "The Beefcake Bungalow" or a "Hunk Haven" POI appear for us ladies one of these days. POI designers: Make it happen! You know you wanna!
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I will see what I can do...😅

KatsPurr said:
So then they started going through one model after another, the artist fondly talking about all the cool little details and Easter eggs he'd added to the male characters. I thought to myself "Oh daaaammmnnn, if the MALE characters are THIS cool, I can-not WAIT to see the female characters!"
Click to expand...


If it's any consolation, there is also a female version of the hoarder with all of the cool Easter eggs they talked about.  I think most of the male / female outfits are the same.

 
meilodasreh said:
You must be the most sexist person 😅
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I'm not certain the smily can diffuse that rather loaded comment. 

You are completely missing the point here, probably on purpose. The male character you chose to highlight is dressed only in skivvies, yes. But he is not wearing an outfit because he is a base character, not because the skivvies are considered a costume. He also does not have an absurdly large "package". The artist even said that he wouldn't show the female base character (presumedly in skivvies and bra) because it would be problematic, so we have nothing to compare him to.

The female @KatsPurr referred to *is* in a costume. A costume specifically designed to highlight her boobs. It is not the same as the male version of the desert costume, nor is it practical for protecting oneself from zombies. It's an outfit specifically designed to make her look sexy- short shorts, bralette, and a few token pieces of armor. Not cargo shorts, t-shirt and armor bits like the male outfit has. 

The point is that the artists and devs came off looking like dudebros by doing that, rather than like professionals who care about all of their players, not just the 14 year old male players.

 
KatsPurr said:
As someone who loves - streams - creates POIs for and creates content about the game - I'd just like to chime in as a female player who is a HUGE fan of 7 days. Just like all you gents out there, I TOO feel the same emotions, the same excitement, the same hype, the same anticipation as you do about everything 7 days. I TOO have been looking forward to these dev streams! Just like you, when they started showing the lineup of character art during the art dev stream, I too was sitting on the edge of my seat, excited to see what was coming. 

So then they started going through one model after another, the artist fondly talking about all the cool little details and Easter eggs he'd added to the male characters. I thought to myself "Oh daaaammmnnn, if the MALE characters are THIS cool, I can-not WAIT to see the female characters!" Then when he finally got around to showing them, I mean it - out of all the variations, he decided to show the "boobies busting out her top" variation.

I wondered to myself: Was there a moment earlier in the day, where the devs discussed which variations to showcase on the stream? Were they saying things like: 

"Ok team, let's make sure to give some appreciation and love to our many female players out there and choose a really nice female player character to show them! They're gonna be so thrilled!"

or... did they say: 

"Duuuuude! Let's show our boys some eye candy, why don't we!? They're gonna looove the rack on this desert character! *giggity*!"

If they would have shown additional normal female characters, there wouldn't have been a problem! But that was it. Just the big boobies and then they moved on. Where were the female characters that had as much personality and attention to detail as say the packrat dude for instance? Where was a female character that "told a backstory". All we saw were just big solid implanted boobs. And then that was it. Nuttin' else. I have to admit: it was a deflating moment to say the least.

Listen: Let me make something absolutely clear 'kay? I absolutely DO NOT mind a game having hottie outfits for female characters in games. God knows how many hours I invested hunting for the skanky outfits in Anarchy Online and WoW back in the day. I also don't mind the only female trader in the game being a cutie called Jen who flirts with me from time to time. I don't even mind the fact that there are SEVERAL strip joints in the game catering to the gents out there. Heck, 7 days wouldn't be the same without the rough humor. I luvs it! (although, I wouldn't mind seeing a "The Stud Farm", "The Muscle Mansion", "The Beefcake Bungalow" or a "Hunk Haven" POI appear for us ladies one of these days. POI designers: Make it happen! You know you wanna!

What I do mind however is the at-times deaf tone and clueless attitudes in regards to making female players feel appreciated, included and welcomed. I remember when I started playing 7 days, one of the first things I noticed was that the traders addressed my female character as if she were a man. Then I remember the first time I saw Joel on stream... Honest question: What's the ONE THING your eyes zap to when he's on screen? The naked lady painting on his wall. I mean my god, it's a frickin' gorgeous painting, it really is! But that's beside the point. What makes this problematic is that a) It's highly unprofessional and has no place on a dev stream b) It creates a horn-dog-buzz amongst the male chatters and this can feel disturbing for female players just trying to focus on the information.

In the very least, it would be considerate if devs could at least avoid reacting to comments about the painting and just choose to focus on one of the other hundreds of comments that are actually about the dev stuff instead. When devs react to comments about the painting, it's like validating the horn dogs in chat and saying "Hey dudes, it's absolutely fine that you continue chatting about naked ladies. We don't need to care about how our female audience will feel or whether they will be creeped out or unwelcome!" Devs should be better than that, and lead by example. Instead of encouraging that sort of behavior.

There will be those of you who say: "Female players don't matter since the target audience is and always has been male" - Choosing a target audience is fine. But it can still be done in such way that doesn't make literally half of the population feel excluded and unwelcome at the same time. Besides, look at how many female streamers there are that stream this game. Isn't it time that females became a valued and respected part of the target audience?

At the end of the day, none of the things I mentioned are very serious or disturbing on their own, the problem is how it all starts to add up. A real shame as this game has so much potential to be enjoyed by everyone equally.
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It wasn’t like that. They all showed one character they’ve worked on for A22. Most of them start with the male version and then do the female version. Like the pack rat—there is no female version yet. 
 

It just happens that the female version for the desert was finished in time to show and they were never planning to show everything they’ve done for A22 anyway. The female bandit they showed looked to be pretty detailed and not necessarily sexed up.

 
@Professor-Pipnope. It is you who's missing my point.

I was just trying to point out the obvious flaw in the argument, when supposing the devs think like this:

KatsPurr said:
or... did they say: 

"Duuuuude! Let's show our boys some eye candy, why don't we!? They're gonna looove the rack on this desert character! *giggity*!"
Click to expand...


...and at the same time completely ignoring that this exact way of thinking could also be put why they chose naked, muscle-packed male character models,

as eye candy for the girls!?

If she stepped up for that the constant-nipple-slip jiggling physics on the party girl was unnecessary, I would have been completely at her side,

but the argument like she brought it up with the current character model setup, I don't agree with.

If you ask me, boobies seem pretty well contained on the A21 character in relation to the party girl, and also lots of other "occasions" one comes across todays.

But this is an argument I shouldn't have brought up in the first place,

so I apologize, I see now, I can only loose here.

 
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Professor-Pip said:
I'm not certain the smily can diffuse that rather loaded comment. 

You are completely missing the point here, probably on purpose. The male character you chose to highlight is dressed only in skivvies, yes. But he is not wearing an outfit because he is a base character, not because the skivvies are considered a costume. He also does not have an absurdly large "package". The artist even said that he wouldn't show the female base character (presumedly in skivvies and bra) because it would be problematic, so we have nothing to compare him to.

The female @KatsPurr referred to *is* in a costume. A costume specifically designed to highlight her boobs. It is not the same as the male version of the desert costume, nor is it practical for protecting oneself from zombies. It's an outfit specifically designed to make her look sexy- short shorts, bralette, and a few token pieces of armor. Not cargo shorts, t-shirt and armor bits like the male outfit has. 

The point is that the artists and devs came off looking like dudebros by doing that, rather than like professionals who care about all of their players, not just the 14 year old male players.
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Sure, if you take a shallow cancel culture view of it thinking that what they showed is everything that they’ve done or will do. It was just a sneak peak and they each could only show one of the things they’ve finished. 
 

There are bound to be different body types, different races, and different costume styles. This one was obviously inspired by Tomb Raider just as the Wasteland Assassin male character looked to be inspired by Assassin’s Creed— but they won’t all be that way. 
 

Once we see the full cast of characters THEN we will know if the devs are unprofessional and a bunch of dudebros catering completely to 14-year old boys. 

 
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Jost Amman said:
Just to make you understand, I'm so obtusely "man-ish" that I can't help scrapping into paint every single pink dye I find!  :sad:   :lol:
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Hmm.  And I search for all the pink dyes.  Pink bicycle, pink moped, pink clothes.....  Pink is nothing to shun.  It is a mix of red and white.  Red is the most powerful male color there is.  Pink was stolen and we got blue.  Weak!  

*inserts Aerosmith's Pink*

;)

 
Laz Man said:
I will see what I can do...😅
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Woohoo! 😄

Laz Man said:
If it's any consolation, there is also a female version of the hoarder with all of the cool Easter eggs they talked about.  I think most of the male / female outfits are the same.
Click to expand...


I was guessing as much, but it actually makes it worse to know that they _could have_ chosen to show the hoarder female if they wanted to. But instead they chose the sexy one. And who were they catering to in that choice? Female players or the male audience? Definitely the male audience, giving no cares about how female players would feel.

Professor-Pip said:
I'm not certain the smily can diffuse that rather loaded comment. 

You are completely missing the point here, probably on purpose. The male character you chose to highlight is dressed only in skivvies, yes. But he is not wearing an outfit because he is a base character, not because the skivvies are considered a costume. He also does not have an absurdly large "package". The artist even said that he wouldn't show the female base character (presumedly in skivvies and bra) because it would be problematic, so we have nothing to compare him to.

The female @KatsPurr referred to *is* in a costume. A costume specifically designed to highlight her boobs. It is not the same as the male version of the desert costume, nor is it practical for protecting oneself from zombies. It's an outfit specifically designed to make her look sexy- short shorts, bralette, and a few token pieces of armor. Not cargo shorts, t-shirt and armor bits like the male outfit has. 

The point is that the artists and devs came off looking like dudebros by doing that, rather than like professionals who care about all of their players, not just the 14 year old male players.
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I was trying to figure out whether he seriously didn't understand the point or whether he was just trolling. Probably the latter. But thanks for going to the trouble to spell it out so I didn't have to. You understood the point precisely! The thing is, that if they had shown a NORMAL not-sexualized female character wearing underwear alongside the male one, there would be no problem what so ever! It would have totally softened the blow of the boobie character as well because female players would have seen that they will have a choice and that they won't be forced to be walking around looking like sex objects.

 
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