PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Jost Amman]

After watching the stream, in my opinion the new assets and POIs in the game look very nice and a huge job has been done. Don't kill me but... precisely this makes the outdated graphical parts of the game engine more visible than ever. The poor lighting system, very outdated effects like ambient occlusion or not so good anti-aliasing, lack of upscaling, and many many more that we are missing. In some respects 7d2d is still a game that causes rejection at first glance for new buyers. Every time I try to introduce friends on Lan parties showing 7d2d at 4k/ultra settings, the reaction is the same: "man, feels like a ps3 game", "my god that pop-in". Not my opinion, but there it is.

How can I put this in words without sounding too "fanboy-ish"... those who play 7D2D don't play it for the graphics.

For me, Priority n.1 is gameplay. Anything they can improve on the graphics side, is icing on the cake. But the cake is a lie!

Spoiler

This will be my final post re: Content.

Just as I suspected, mostly fluff that no-one needs, such as text lore on in game paper for a game that doesn't have any sense of coherent story, and no new zombies.

The game has gone to the dogs in my opinion, whether or not Rick Huenink was exaggerating when he said 1000 doors/variants updated (even a paltry number such as 100 new ones added) while new zombies has been neglected is just pathetic.

Clone army was a tiring turn off in the previous alpha - and as long as there's no inclusion of new zombies in this iteration, neither I; nor the bunch of friends I got into this game, will touch it.

I also share the sentiment of the 'Omg wowzers a new quest!' criticism.

Increased density of the same clones in any given area may be new in the sense the density wasn't the same as previous alphas, but that is little different to adding 'new' forest biomes by simply placing more grass and trees. Yeah, no.

Now bring on the hate, disapproval, dislikes, and la de dah. I will keep an eye out for A22 but as for A21, no thanks.

For those wondering why I'd post then not play, it's in hope that any dev reading this can relay the overbearing sameness up the chain and maybe they can dedicate the time to adding more zombies, even a few new ones would make all the difference.

Party pooper!  out:

 

[Matt115]

Didn't you see that open trailer full of body bags where you get ambushed by the corpses?  :hat:

 yep body Bags on one car with crawlers but  i mean just random corpses on streets, more in bulidings etc.

 

[Ricowan]

I understand the criticism about textures, especially the "clone army" of identical zombies.  But this game's system requirements list 2gb of graphics memory.  Adding all of the textures some of you guys are requesting means requiring more graphics memory for the game to store those textures.  I would absolutely love to see a dozen more variations on the zombie textures, etc.  But it would seriously suck if adding them meant thousands of people who already own the game can't play it any more because they meet the minimum requirements now, but don't if those requirements are increased.

 

[Matt115]

I only hope this is intentional with the new player customization coming up. They should hook it up with this system (make it very scalable) and make zombies randomized. I would LOVE to see that.

5 different head variations, 5 different tops, 5 different pants... That would make up to 125 possible unique zombies. Just imagine that!

If any of you guys have seen leak of GTA 6, they use very simplified mannequins that have their own skeletons. Why they do it? Because every skeleton is UNIQUE with unique set of animations (here it would translate to HEAVIES, MUSCULAR, SKINNY etc, you could use @%$#load of categories), and every body mesh collection is unique for THAT skeleton. After they are happy with the shapes, anims, colors, they start using very high detail models. I think such iteration process is the most safe way to approach such thing and would make a @%$# ton of unique experiences. Add this with streets polluted with hundreds of cars in traffic jams (GPU instancing), it would make it the next walking dead movie but in a game   

They were working on random generated zombie but they give up

I understand the criticism about textures, especially the "clone army" of identical zombies.  But this game's system requirements list 2gb of graphics memory.  Adding all of the textures some of you guys are requesting means requiring more graphics memory for the game to store those textures.  I would absolutely love to see a dozen more variations on the zombie textures, etc.  But it would seriously suck if adding them meant thousands of people who already own the game can't play it any more because they meet the minimum requirements now, but don't if those requirements are increased.

 2  GB is... funny low.  You know that requiremnts was higer few times? It's not 2013 anymore. So it's expected technological progres. it's new consol generation of consols etc. so rest of games get highly improvment. Yes - nobody expected that 7DTD will be developed so long - they could without problem finish in 2015-2016 when they were close. But they decided to change thing over and over so..... but standards changes sop they have too add more zombies variants if they want too keep high quality. Will this mean some people can't play? yeah but rly low %

 

[Riamus]

They did say that they were looking at adding some more zombies.  They didn't mention how many, though it doesn't sound like too many more.  And they didn't mention skins for the existing zombies, which I think would probably be a better overall option as it can give far more variety without having to make a bunch of entirely unique zombies.  Different clothing, different skin tones, different hair color and style.  You could have it feel far more realistic with just that and no new zombies.

 

[Crypted]

For those wondering why I'd post then not play, it's in hope that any dev reading this can relay the overbearing sameness up the chain and maybe they can dedicate the time to adding more zombies, even a few new ones would make all the difference.

I agree, In my opinion just two or three more zombies that look completely different would be awesome. 

 

[Mister Forgash]

I'll agree with some of the recent criticisms that with what we've seen, given the time it's taken, A21 strikes me as [Hate to say it] underwhelming.

Now don't gets your bits all jumbled, it's just a first impression, just sayin'.

I really like the new door tech coming.
Water as a environmental element is very meh, to me.. I imagine I'll never genuinely appreciate the effort that's gone into fixing it.
As a resource to be managed, I'm curious to see how this plays out, the availability of water and simplicity of obtaining it never bothered me, but I understand wanting it to be more of a hurdle as you get on your feet, maybe I'll appreciate the changes after I suffer a few bouts of early dysentery and feel the growth in power as I get myself to a better diet.

New quest type- Cool, I'm happy about it, think I'll enjoy it, doesn't really wow me or anything though.. Just a clear quest on steroids.. But don't get me wrong, I like clear quests.

Zombies- Now, I don't think we need more unique zombies types, but if some did turn up, I'd be stoked!  .. But please, I beg of you Dev team, You gotta find a way to give them 2-3 alternate outfits or something [Glowy-eyes doesn't cut it!]. The zombs are such a central part of the game, it really stands out when you see 3-5 in a row that all look identical. I reach out to your gut feelings- May they twist uncomfortably every time you tell yourself zombie variety is in a finished state.

New trader compounds- Cool, I like they'll have more aesthetic personality, very curious to see what's coming with that helipad, but still, a very meh change to me.

New art assets - Beautiful, Love 'em, very happy, everything looks great- Well done!

Optimizations- Very excited to have more zombs loaded! This should make many, many people very happy .. don't remember hearing it, but I think this means the blood moon zombie counter might get some numbers on there.

Thanks for reading! - Buy those zombies some alternate teeshirts!

 

[Laz Man]

They should reconsider IMHO, this has a lot of potential. You now have ton of new buildings, so I think this should be their next priority (personall i would do anything to get such system in). If they go with (1 texture+1 mesh)/zombie, they will soon run out of texture memory (Especially on consoles)

If you have 125 completely unieque peds (model from scratch) you have many zombies but less HW resources.
If you go modular (5 heads * 5 leg parts * 5 torso parts) you get 125 zombies BUT with much less resources.
 

Plz devs, I dont want to force myself upon you  , but could you just say what would you think about this approach?

What you propose sounds cool (im not an art guy), but my guess is we are too far into the gold push for a redesign of that nature.  What is more likely to happen is a couple more zombie models being added after bandits / player character release if there is time or maybe post gold / DLC.

I'll agree with some of the recent criticisms that with what we've seen, given the time it's taken, A21 strikes me as [Hate to say it] underwhelming.

Now don't gets your bits all jumbled, it's just a first impression, just sayin'.

I really like the new door tech coming.
Water as a environmental element is very meh, to me.. I imagine I'll never genuinely appreciate the effort that's gone into fixing it.
As a resource to be managed, I'm curious to see how this plays out, the availability of water and simplicity of obtaining it never bothered me, but I understand wanting it to be more of a hurdle as you get on your feet, maybe I'll appreciate the changes after I suffer a few bouts of early dysentery and feel the growth in power as I get myself to a better diet.

New quest type- Cool, I'm happy about it, think I'll enjoy it, doesn't really wow me or anything though.. Just a clear quest on steroids.. But don't get me wrong, I like clear quests.

Zombies- Now, I don't think we need more unique zombies types, but if some did turn up, I'd be stoked!  .. But please, I beg of you Dev team, You gotta find a way to give them 2-3 alternate outfits or something [Glowy-eyes doesn't cut it!]. The zombs are such a central part of the game, it really stands out when you see 3-5 in a row that all look identical. I reach out to your gut feelings- May they twist uncomfortably every time you tell yourself zombie variety is in a finished state.

New trader compounds- Cool, I like they'll have more aesthetic personality, very curious to see what's coming with that helipad, but still, a very meh change to me.

New art assets - Beautiful, Love 'em, very happy, everything looks great- Well done!

Optimizations- Very excited to have more zombs loaded! This should make many, many people very happy .. don't remember hearing it, but I think this means the blood moon zombie counter might get some numbers on there.

Thanks for reading! - Buy those zombies some alternate teeshirts!

It will be interesting to see what folks think after the bandits go in.  They are not zombies but definitely will add a ton of more enemy variety to the game.

 

[Matt115]

They should reconsider IMHO, this has a lot of potential. You now have ton of new buildings, so I think this should be their next priority (personall i would do anything to get such system in). If they go with (1 texture+1 mesh)/zombie, they will soon run out of texture memory (Especially on consoles)

If you have 125 completely unieque peds (model from scratch) you have many zombies but less HW resources.
If you go modular (5 heads * 5 leg parts * 5 torso parts) you get 125 zombies BUT with much less resources.
 

Plz devs, I dont want to force myself upon you  , but could you just say what would you think about this approach?

Yeah i know. But it's too late unfortunatly

@Laz Man is right about that. I'm shocked why building have bigger piority for them. So - well at least 2-3 years waiting for new models of zombies

 

[Laz Man]

Yeah i know. But it's too late unfortunatly

@Laz Man is right about that. I'm shocked why building have bigger piority for them. So - well at least 2-3 years waiting for new models of zombies

It's not shocking to me.  The game went years without alot of environment art support.  If anything, the POIs are catching up to the zombies which had their HD update first.

 

[Matt115]

It's not shocking to me.  The game went years without alot of environment art support.  If anything, the POIs are catching up to the zombies which had their HD update first.

HD update while many zombies were removed and only few added . While in every updated some POI redesigned/new props added/new added POI, In A20 was removed 4 Zombies while adding hm... 2 if i good remember 

 

[Crypted]

I don't understand why Joel Huenink always says something like (99% of the time when it's harder It's better) because this Isn't always true. I have played this game since Alpha 15 so I'm fine with this, but what about a new player just starting out. 

 

[meganoth]

I'm perfectly fine with the low count of zombies, I consider them archetypes and I know exactly that a punch from archetype "granni" hurts more than the one from archetype "Arlene" so I prioritze killing granni while staying out of reach. Much more tactical than hundreds of different zombies I would have to treat equally because I couldn't identify them.

Everyone who says he just needs 3 more variants to be happy is practically lying to himself because 3 more variants would not change anything for immersion. You really would need dozens of new zombies to make them look like individuals. And that is something the GTA developers can do easily without adding another 2 years but probably not TFP. Especially not when the new zombies need new animations as well.

 

[mstdv inc]

Every time before the release of a new alpha, I read the messages "there is nothing interesting in it" and after exp is released to the public, these people disappear for several months. hmm 

 

[Crypted]

Everyone who says he just needs 3 more variants to be happy is practically lying to himself because 3 more variants would not change anything for immersion. You really would need dozens of new zombies to make them look like individuals. And that is something GTA can do without adding another 2 years but probably not TFP. Especially not when they need new animations as well.

Yeah It wouldn't change the immersive feeling, but at least your not killing a thousand Bikers or Arlene's for an example. I love 7DTD and I just want It to do great but the game got released In 2013 and It's still getting worked on. Some of the zombies that were In the game got removed, so when It comes to why the game Is still getting worked on It's because of constantly changing things, I mean this the nicest way possible. 

 

[meganoth]

Yeah It wouldn't change the immersive feeling, but at least your not killing a thousand Bikers or Arlene's for an example.

If they add 3 more models you will kill only say 800 bikers and Arlenes and 800 of any of the new zombies. Is that a big difference?

I love 7DTD and I just want It to do great but the game got released In 2013 and It's still getting worked on. Some of the zombies that were In the game got removed, so when It comes to why the game Is still getting worked on It's because of constantly changing things, I mean this the nicest way possible. 

Some of them simply looked very different when they got replaced with the HD model, for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman in revealing dress. I can only remember the farmer and the nurse that went away without replacement.

For many here the constantly changing things are the most important reason why we play each new alpha. TFP has to disappoint either your "group" or mine.

 

[Mister Forgash]

Now, now, I think 'practically lying to myself' is a stretch. - There are plenty of changes that I'm perfectly happy to play out before I come to an opinion on, but I'm confident then when a screamer goes off, and I get 4 lookalikes amongst the crowd, it just doesn't feel good. It's a great game, I'm not going to stop playing any time soon, but if you're staring down a conga line of Arlenes and say to yourself 'This is great, wouldn't change a thing', I think it's equally plausible that you're.. practically lying to yourself.  But that's just the hill on which I will dig in my heels and prepare to die on.

It will be interesting to see what folks think after the bandits go in.  They are not zombies but definitely will add a ton of more enemy variety to the game.

I think bandits will be fantastic for breaking up the pace/style of combat. I really hope they make us switch up our behavior to fight them effectively.

..But I do not trust them to make it feel better when I got zombie clone wars going on at my base.

 

[Matt115]

I'm perfectly fine with the low count of zombies, I consider them archetypes and I know exactly that a punch from archetype "granni" hurts more than the one from archetype "Arlene" so I prioritze killing granni while staying out of reach. Much more tactical than hundreds of different zombies I would have to treat equally because I couldn't identify them.

Everyone who says he just needs 3 more variants to be happy is practically lying to himself because 3 more variants would not change anything for immersion. You really would need dozens of new zombies to make them look like individuals. And that is something the GTA developers can do easily without adding another 2 years but probably not TFP. Especially not when the new zombies need new animations as well.

You can reused animations for new zombies without problem - in re2 or l4d2 remake zombies use this same animations while have diffrent look. And yes - a lot of zombie veriants is neccesary of immersion. 

another thing - you can make a group of similiar enemies variants and easy know which one is harder - i will give you RE4 remake as example - cultists looks similiar but you can easy know which  one is harder - more ornamet outift mean is better, if have helmet mean he is bullet prove , if have less clothes mean it's  much more aggresive.

Okay but what about 7dtd?

Here it's even simpler - let's make a group of soldier zombies- without helmet it's weaker, big muscle zombie is much more dangerous while zombie soldier in helmet but without tshirt but many wouds looks weaker.

Civilians? If you would saw - 20 yo girl in sneakears, short leggins and top you would know that she is faster that dunno - 50 yo zombie woman in formal clothes.

And many variants of zombie is crucial for immersive

Some of them simply looked very different when they got replaced with the HD model, for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman in revealing dress. I can only remember the farmer and the nurse that went away without replacement.

For many here the constantly changing things are the most important reason why we play each new alpha. TFP has to disappoint either your "group" or mine.

Crawler zombie looks worst to be honest  but burned one looks much better.

Still - well this is zombie game. and you meet zombie everywhere. So it would be good if doesn't looked like clone wars

 

[Jost Amman]

for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman

A stripper is NOT a prostitute!  :drama: :heh:

 

[Crypted]

If they add 3 more models you will kill only say 800 bikers and Arlenes and 800 of any of the new zombies. Is that a big difference?

I was just saying that It's going to better since the game Is based In a post-apocalyptic world. I see posts on the forums saying either more zombies, random generated zombies or the existing zombies but with different clothes. TFP said In the interview with Guns, Nerds and Steel that they were thinking about adding more zombies then Joel said that he designed most of them, but they didn't pull the trigger on them. Rick said maybe a couple before gold. 

Some of them simply looked very different when they got replaced with the HD model, for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman in revealing dress. I can only remember the farmer and the nurse that went away without replacement.

For many here the constantly changing things are the most important reason why we play each new alpha. TFP has to disappoint either your "group" or mine.

 The football player, cheerleader, farmer, animated corpse zombies were In but got removed, I think the farmer and football player should get added back In and then give them the HD model makeover, so they look better.