PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[custom_hero]

Sorry you feel that way. That is not the norm though. The devs couldn't make the game that everyone wanted. They have made a game that quite a lot of people want and enjoy for a lot longer than two days. Since 2018 the number of players continuing to play this game have increased by quite a bit. Its too bad your expectations and desires for the game turned out to be different than what the developers have done but it isn't as though they are betraying you and staying loyal to someone else. They are simply developing their game which involves experimentation, change, and progress and that means some things that were beloved to some people will get cut.

quite an expected, politically correct answer, it was possible not to answer, I understand everything, so I wrote this post, I wrote the post for other players. 
So the game has been degraded for 5 years. We have a stable average online 30k.  If the game were to improve, the number of players would have to grow logarithmically in the graph. Old players + new arrivals, arrived on the recommendation of old players. 
The flat (a term in trading) should not have been in the chart. I think the flat is due to the fact that old players leave, new ones take their places, thereby the number of players remains in place. This means that as soon as the fuel (new players) runs out, the number of players will decrease.
Just money and nothing personal. Doesn't attract people. see you even 5 years.

 

[Matt115]

hey guys. Something good happend?

 

[Roland]

quite an expected, politically correct answer, it was possible not to answer, I understand everything, so I wrote this post, I wrote the post for other players. 
So the game has been degraded for 5 years. We have a stable average online 30k.  If the game were to improve, the number of players would have to grow logarithmically in the graph. Old players + new arrivals, arrived on the recommendation of old players. 
The flat (a term in trading) should not have been in the chart. I think the flat is due to the fact that old players leave, new ones take their places, thereby the number of players remains in place. This means that as soon as the fuel (new players) runs out, the number of players will decrease.
Just money and nothing personal. Doesn't attract people.

 30K represents "the fumes" of those still playing near the end of the A20 dev cycle before the next update. Every time in the past the number of players has flattened out in the final months preceding the next update and then it spikes with the new update and goes strong for a few months before slowly degrading to a flat line before the next. The fact that we are 14 months long in the tooth for A20 and the flat line at this time is still 30K is frankly amazing. For most of the alpha updates in the past getting 30K for the spike was seen as a huge achievement and now with 14-month old Alpha 20 we are in the doldrums and still with 30K. 

You can spin it as a failure in your own mind but it is a win. The other thing we always get at this time is people telling us that the game is going to spiral into failure, that it has been in early access too long and nobody cares about it any longer and they predict that the next update won't even cause a bump in number of players playing and they are always wrong.  This time we have plenty of naysayers predicting that A21 will be a failure because "my jars!!!!!" and "forced looting!!!!!" 

Having played A21 I think their predictions will be wrong and I think you're wrong as well. A21 will spike higher than any previous update and retain more players than ever before for longer than before. I've gone back and forth a few times now between A21 and A20 and, at least for me, I think that A21 is hands down the superior game. I think that old players will return to try it out when they get the notification and they will be recaptured into playing again. I think that new players will really enjoy A21 and we will have plenty of new people playing this game for 1000s of hours.

 

[Paulishdog]

It's so bizarre how these kinds of posts lamenting the state of the game pop up largely just before a major update. I think there's a legitimate mourning that has happened for a lot of people over the years as there have been some pretty major shifts in the design philosophy for the game, but a lot of the negativity just seems to be petty passive-aggressive attempts to bully the developers into changing their minds about some design choice or other.

As far as the player count falling off, it has a lot more to do with anticipation of the upcoming update, rather than loss of interest. Who wants to start a fresh game right now if they're going to have to wipe in a few weeks or so? Not that the update will be out that soon, but that's kind of where we've been for the past three months. I think once we get 1.0, player counts are going to look a lot different. People are going to come back to the game much more consistently.

 

[Prydonian]

It can be interpreted that way, yes. Knowing the devs over the years from their words and videos I can say for sure that you are absolutely wrong and the truth is that they are just a goofy bunch of imperfectly beautiful people that go on tumbling about the videogame industry the boomer way: inefficiently slow, but steadily amazing. I'm grateful that the cofounders have the strenght of character to ignore some hurtful comments from  time to time (mine included) regarding stuff like what you just said and console, which are product of a few unforeseen mistakes and I'm also grateful that they have the wisdom to improve upon them. 

“The boomer way?” Please explain.

 

[beerfly]

“The boomer way?” Please explain.

"Their own way"

Thats all. We respect that and we love it. End of story

 

[Prydonian]

"Their own way"

Thats all. We respect that and we love it. End of story

No, seriously.  Boomer using the general internet slang meaning or some other definition?

 

[beerfly]

No, seriously.  Boomer using the general internet slang meaning or some other definition?

Just a word, mate. Nothing really something that makes anyone more or less. We are all humans at first place. Nothing to worry about. 

 

[Prydonian]

Just a word, mate. Nothing really something that makes anyone more or less. We are all humans at first place. Nothing to worry about. 

Well, that’s what I’m getting at.   Your post was clearly intended to be supportive and kind, but you appear to have not only included a term that’s generally understood to be a slur - and an inaccurate one since none of TFP are in their 60s - but also the assertion that any devs actually of that age would be bad at their jobs.  From your tone, I gotta think you didn’t intend that, but, y’know… words.

 

[beerfly]

And now the weather forecast !

 

[DuHast_Play]

I don't understand some members. If you really don't like the game, you're disappointed in it...why transfer this mood to other forum members? For what? everyone has their own head on their shoulders and everyone knows how to think (to a greater extent). Isn't it easier to silently leave the game and the forum? make the game easier? Or maybe it's easier to set the highest difficulty and set the minimum experience with loot in the settings? ass will burn like a wick from such a game to a greater extent. I tried ... I didn’t even live 1 day without death. let's wait for the real and long-awaited news on the new alpha and just discuss something interesting.

 

[Riamus]

I don't understand some members. If you really don't like the game, you're disappointed in it...why transfer this mood to other forum members? For what?

I think some people feel better when others think the same way they do, so they try to get others to side with their views by trying to force their views on others.  Personally, I think it's not worth it to worry about what others think about my views. My views are mine and what others think about them doesn't matter.  And I have no problem if others have different views.  As the saying goes, live and let live.  Have a positive outlook rather than a negative one and you'll be far happier in life.

There is no reason to go to a forum to complain about something you aren't interested in.  I mean, I have tried a LOT of games that I ended up not liking for one reason or another.  I don't go to their forums to complain about not liking their games.  Why waste my time complaining about something I don't have any interest in?  If I am interested in something, but don't like part of it, then I may go to the forum and give my feedback.  But I do so in a constructive way and not in a rant.  After all, if you rant, you will not be listened to, so you are just wasting your time.  By giving constructive feedback, there is at least a chance that your feedback will be acted on if it is any good.  But if someone is no longer interested in the game, then stop wasting time with it and move on.  At least, that's my feeling.  There are far better things to spend time on than ranting about something you don't like.

 

[mstdv inc]

Well, that’s what I’m getting at.   Your post was clearly intended to be supportive and kind, but you appear to have not only included a term that’s generally understood to be a slur - and an inaccurate one since none of TFP are in their 60s - but also the assertion that any devs actually of that age would be bad at their jobs.  From your tone, I gotta think you didn’t intend that, but, y’know… words.

Spoiler

since when is "boomer" an insult?

I don't understand some members. If you really don't like the game, you're disappointed in it...why transfer this mood to other forum members? For what? everyone has their own head on their shoulders and everyone knows how to think (to a greater extent). Isn't it easier to silently leave the game and the forum? make the game easier? Or maybe it's easier to set the highest difficulty and set the minimum experience with loot in the settings? ass will burn like a wick from such a game to a greater extent. I tried ... I didn’t even live 1 day without death. let's wait for the real and long-awaited news on the new alpha and just discuss something interesting.

I think it's a strong dependence on the game and a lack of communication.

 

[Prydonian]

Spoiler

View attachment 27362

since when is "boomer" an insult?

I think it's a strong dependence on the game and a lack of communication.

Oh, hey, one is!  I’m genuinely surprised.  I Googled ‘em but could only find photos and no concrete dates.  I almost included “as far as I know,” but he looked so darn young.  It doesn’t change the essential point, but I stand corrected: one is a baby boomer.  “Baby boomer,” btw, is not an insult, but “boomer” generally is, and even if it weren’t it would have been in this context.  But honestly, enough said.

 

[Riamus]

Oh, hey, one is!  I’m genuinely surprised.  I Googled ‘em but could only find photos and no concrete dates.  It doesn’t change anything, but I stand corrected: one is a baby boomer.  “Baby boomer,” btw, is not an insult, just “boomer,” and even if it weren’t generally it would have been in this context.  But honestly, enough said.

A word is only insulting if you choose to be insulted by it.    It is true that words can hurt, but they don't really have to.  We all have the choice to take things personally or to simply ignore slurs against us.  When we start taking every little thing personally, we end up living a life of hate and anger and that only hurts us more than the original slur might have.  The world today has become far too "politically correct" where you can't say anything that might in any way offend someone.  You can see how people react to one another today because of it.  Far more hate today.  Go back to times when people didn't take everything personally and relations between different groups of people were generally better.  I'm not saying it's okay to use slurs and derogatory terms against people, but anyone on the receiving end does have the option to let those bother them or to not let them bother them.  A person trying to hurt you with a derogatory or inflammatory word or phrase isn't going to succeed if you aren't bothered by it.  But if you allow it to bother you, it just gives them all the more reason to keep doing it.  If it doesn't affect you, they get nothing out of using it on you.  As a kid, I was taught "in one ear, out the other."  In other words, don't let words hurt you.  Words don't matter unless you choose to let them matter.

In terms of "boomer", I don't know any elderly who would be at all offended by being called that by young people.  I'm sure some might, but most aren't likely to care.

I think that if we can all stop taking everything personally and just let people have their own opinions without worrying about whether or not their opinions of us are good or bad or even valid, we'd all be a lot happier and the world would be in a lot better shape.  We should all accept that the world is full of hurt and pain and darkness and unlike what the U.S. teaches kids these days, we are not all winners and there are losers.  Expecting a fantasy world where everything is perfect and people are always nice to you is a road to disaster.  BUT even so, we don't have to let that darkness invade our lives.  We can choose to move past it and live a good life regardless of what the world throws at us and be happier for it.

 

[Neminsis]

How about walking away from the forum? You've just admitted you have no desire to play the game any longer, and plan to shift away from 7 Days as soon as you can

You could ask the same question of me since I haven't played the game for a year besides a couple instances of helping someone create content for their channel, but perhaps my answer might offer another perspective on what @IzPrebuilt was saying and why.

I've got about 10,000 hours combined play time in this game since console. With the last couple thousand focused on helping produce content for a small YouTube channel. That last couple thousand was the closest I've ever come to actually hating this game. Every single day was a struggle to come up something new to make the game seem interesting to watch. There's the different play through scenarios, mods, tips and tricks, tutorials, different game mechanics, and base building videos, and the best performing videos were always the news about the upcoming alpha and the first playthrough of that alpha. You see, that peak players is also peak viewers, and for guys like @IzPrebuilt that literally built their channel on an upcoming alpha it's harder to justify the hours spent without that peak pending, YouTube certainly doesn't pay enough when you're a niche creator. 

I've also encouraged my partner to shift away from 7days and not just to broaden the appeal of the channel but because the game runs out of viable content too quickly. The tutorials, tips and tricks, all of the above are only one shot per alpha and if you're doing even 2 videos a week you're going to be running on fumes 6 months into the year and milking it until the next alpha comes out and you get to do them all over again. This is both why we hang around the forum waiting for any news and why dropping a short video of a guy making sounds for the minibike can seem insulting and drive the crankier among us a little closer to the edge. We can't even do anything with that. 

Now me, I'm bored to death of 7days as it is, I've earned that boredom over long hours of dedication to it, but except for the vile suggestion that I take up modding, there isn't anything left in the game for me until the next alpha comes out and it just can't come out soon enough.

Now let's all get back to arguing about jars and learn by looting because that's never boring

 

[mstdv inc]

You could ask the same question of me since I haven't played the game for a year besides a couple instances of helping someone create content for their channel, but perhaps my answer might offer another perspective on what @ was saying and why.

I've got about 10,000 hours combined play time in this game since console. With the last couple thousand focused on helping produce content for a small YouTube channel. That last couple thousand was the closest I've ever come to actually hating this game. Every single day was a struggle to come up something to new to make the game seem interesting to watch. There's the different play through scenarios, mods, tips and tricks, tutorials, different game mechanics, and base building videos, and the best performing videos were always the news about the upcoming alpha and the first playthrough of that alpha. You see, that peak players is also peak viewers, and for guys like @IzPrebuilt that literally built their channel on an upcoming alpha it's harder to justify the hours spent without that peak pending, YouTube certainly doesn't pay enough when you're a niche creator.

I've also encouraged my partner to shift away from 7days and not just to broaden the appeal of the channel but because the game runs out of viable content too quickly. The tutorials, tips and tricks, all of the above are only one shot per alpha and if you're doing even 2 videos a week you're going to be running on fumes 6 months into the year and milking it until the next alpha comes out and you get to do them all over again. This is both why we hang around the forum waiting for any news and why dropping a short video of a guy making sounds for the minibike can seem insulting and drive the crankier among us a little closer to the edge. We can't even do anything with that.

Now me, I'm bored to death of 7days as it is, I've earned that boredom over long hours of dedication to it, but except for the vile suggestion that I take up modding, there isn't anything left in the game for me until the next alpha comes out and it just can't come out soon enough.

Now let's all get back to arguing about jars and learn by looting because that's never boring

I don't know how many years you play. But let's count. If you play 10 years. Have 10,000 hours. That's 1,000 hours a year. Divide by 365 and you get 2.7 hours a day. I think everyone agrees that if you play any game 2.7 hours a day for 10 years you will get tired of this game. And most likely you will start to hate it. Any game, no matter how good and loved it is.
What I see is that people who have played 10,000 hours are trying to get together with the same people and let everyone know that the game has become #%;"
If there is a problem, then this problem is with you. In unwillingness to play other games. In too much free time. Probably.
Those who have played 200-500 hours or even 1000 hours do not understand you and will not understand you.
10,000 hours. Even 5,000 hours is a lot for any game. Do something else. The problem isn't with the game or the developers. The problem is that you've played too much. It's time to move on.

 

[Jost Amman]

Not everyone is like you, we want to see new things in the game. The guy has a valid point. The lack of interest of devs (or management) was clear from the beggining of this alpha and the "sound" post is just another clear indication.

That is only "clear" for you, maybe.

What I see, is a team that's working behind closed doors, and some entitled customers who feel butthurt because they have no access to the "behind the scenes".

Only decent change coming this alpha is the water logic. The building team has done awesome job with level design, but with constantly changing perk systems, constantly changing spawn chances for items, balancing etc, we will get nowhere... These are the kinds of things you do after releasing the CORE GAMEPLAY features.

Game development is not about showcasing some half assed Substance Painter cars, which do not even have interiors to begin with..... They could've just taken some assets from unity asset store and retexture them. It would turn out better if not for the best with interiors present.

Noted. I'm sure your own startup dev studio will be much more successful than TFP... good luck.

You are DEAD WRONG. Since shader model 3, you can do GPU instancing, which basically allows you to draw milions if not billions of same looking objects with many color variations. It is a HARDWARE specification of all current modern GPU's, therefore it runs FAST. The game could have streets polluted with hundreds of cars (with interiors) with no performance cost whatsoever! I keep @%$#ing about this, because I know I have a valid point. And the guy has too. Otherwise we would not talk of it at ALL!

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, they have a good reason not to use that?

I mean, if you're such a genius I'd gladly see you as part of the 7D2D team, they need all the help they can get after all.

 

[Jost Amman]

You could ask the same question of me since I haven't played the game for a year besides a couple instances of helping someone create content for their channel, but perhaps my answer might offer another perspective on what @IzPrebuilt was saying and why.

I've got about 10,000 hours combined play time in this game since console. With the last couple thousand focused on helping produce content for a small YouTube channel. That last couple thousand was the closest I've ever come to actually hating this game. Every single day was a struggle to come up something new to make the game seem interesting to watch. There's the different play through scenarios, mods, tips and tricks, tutorials, different game mechanics, and base building videos, and the best performing videos were always the news about the upcoming alpha and the first playthrough of that alpha. You see, that peak players is also peak viewers, and for guys like @IzPrebuilt that literally built their channel on an upcoming alpha it's harder to justify the hours spent without that peak pending, YouTube certainly doesn't pay enough when you're a niche creator. 

I've also encouraged my partner to shift away from 7days and not just to broaden the appeal of the channel but because the game runs out of viable content too quickly. The tutorials, tips and tricks, all of the above are only one shot per alpha and if you're doing even 2 videos a week you're going to be running on fumes 6 months into the year and milking it until the next alpha comes out and you get to do them all over again. This is both why we hang around the forum waiting for any news and why dropping a short video of a guy making sounds for the minibike can seem insulting and drive the crankier among us a little closer to the edge. We can't even do anything with that. 

Now me, I'm bored to death of 7days as it is, I've earned that boredom over long hours of dedication to it, but except for the vile suggestion that I take up modding, there isn't anything left in the game for me until the next alpha comes out and it just can't come out soon enough.

Now let's all get back to arguing about jars and learn by looting because that's never boring

I think the issue is clear... have you really bet all your "ScrewTube livelihood" on ONE game that's still in development?  :suspicious:

I mean, it's great for the 7D2D community that there's people like you, but you need to also think about the wider picture here, if you don't mind me saying.

Also, you may want to consider that these last few years of development for 7D2D, will all be kind of like the last months: the devs are evidently clenching their butts for the final sprint and have less time for sharing and PR. That maybe a mistake on their part, but it is what it is. IMO, they're doing the right thing here: would you rather have a worse meal because the cook has been praising all the time the things he's doing while cooking, or would you rather wait impatiently for dinner but later have a great meal because the cook was completely focused on cooking?

 

[Aldranon]

As most people didn't have a gun held to their head and forced to buy 7D2D AND keep it on its current release (except for me of course).

I find it a human thing to resort to... what do we call it?  "Cage shaking"?  To vent out some of what we had hoped for not come to pass and have people know we are not happy.

I'm ok with that, free psychotherapy is a double bonus you might say.