PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

Fanatical_Meat said:
Yeah it is about support for windows & overall driver support.

I really like intel, I believe they are capable of great things, I really want them to be successful with video cards. Our current Duopoly is boring and sucks. 
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Again I would generally agree, except that in the case of Intel it is a mixed blessing as it is still the top dog in CPUs by a wide margin. And having so much power in CPUs always breeds possibilities for unfair practices against competitors in related markets.

Luckily that could change in the future. ARM/Apple as well as AMD seem to be in a good position to make it a fight on equal terms.

Not so good is that with TMSC a new near-monopoly underneath the CPU/GPU companies is emerging.

 
The current issue you're all forgetting about is that in the foreseeable future, ALL chip manufacturers are going to have raw material shortages because of... <put geopolitics reason here> so we're basically all screwed until more important issues get sorted globally.

Sorry for being so pessimistic, but from what I can gather, that's where we're at.  :noidea:

 
RipClaw said:
For everyone, fun is something different. I find it much more fun to build something myself than to run through a POI that someone else built and kill zombies.
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This is why the player base should not, and CANNOT, be the designers of a game.  The game studio has designers that map out how the game should play, and make changes to the map based on how well it's matching the company's ultimate goals for the game.  The player base all want different things and would pull the coders in contradicting directions with nothing ever getting accomplished.

 
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Ricowan said:
This is why the player base should not, and CANNOT, be the designers of a game.  The game studio has designers that map out how the game should play, and make changes to the map based on how well it's matching the company's ultimate goals for the game.  The player base all want different things and would pull the coders in contradicting directions with nothing ever getting accomplished.
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Which is why mods are important for those that have a different vision from TFP.  Don't get me wrong, I have played a lot of vanilla 7D2D.  But after 3k hours, sometimes you want a little variety.  Which is why I got myself into learning xml coding so I can tweak the game to my preferences.  

 
meganoth said:
git is a versioning system that had its main thread called "master" as default. But they recently changed that because the old term was implicated as a reminder of slavery. Now the poster seems to see some uses of the term "master" somewhere in or around TFPs xml, or maybe in the versioning inside the steam data base(?).
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I know how this turns into a troll farm, but not to be misinterpreted. I am conforming my coding standards so if anyone looks at my Mod and they see the Xml they can compare it with the ConfigDumps from the game to see what I am doing. I am using your code as a standard. I could change all my stuff and make it difficult for people to read or I could just propose a simple change. I am fine with you all doing nothing. Its just a suggestion not a call to arms.

Anyone thinking im making some political stand is just lying to themselves so they feel better. I have no cares in the world, i would just prefer to use neutral terms so when people see my work they dont think I am just like you. 

 
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Code_Ovrld said:
I know how this turns into a troll farm, but not to be misinterpreted. I am conforming my coding standards so if anyone looks at my Mod and they see the Xml they can compare it with the ConfigDumps from the game to see what I am doing. I am using your code as a standard. I could change all my stuff and make it difficult for people to read or I could just propose a simple change. I am fine with you all doing nothing. Its just a suggestion not a call to arms.

Anyone thinking im making some political stand is just lying to themselves so they feel better. I have no cares in the world, i would just prefer to use neutral terms so when people see my work they dont think I am just like you. 
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I'm not weighing in on the usage of the word in question (I am a dev and my team has made a decision on this). I did want to point out that you requesting a "simple change" because you don't want to use a word or follow the devs convention would require the devs and the entire modding community to rewrite their code. There are no simple changes.

 
Code_Ovrld said:
I know how this turns into a troll farm, but not to be misinterpreted. I am conforming my coding standards so if anyone looks at my Mod and they see the Xml they can compare it with the ConfigDumps from the game to see what I am doing. I am using your code as a standard. I could change all my stuff and make it difficult for people to read or I could just propose a simple change. I am fine with you all doing nothing. Its just a suggestion not a call to arms.

Anyone thinking im making some political stand is just lying to themselves so they feel better. I have no cares in the world, i would just prefer to use neutral terms so when people see my work they dont think I am just like you. 
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Sorry, I seem to have made a mistake while searching for the term the first time and got no result. I searched again now and yes, TFP uses "Master" almost everywhere to denote templates that get inherited and get extended into actual items/blocks/...

So you want terms like "pouredRConcreteMaster" to be renamed to "pouredRConcreteMain" or "pouredRConcreteTemplate". Got it.

PS: @jorbascrumps it is a rather straightforward simple change, it could be done in less than an hour to the xml with mass edit commands and some care to look for exceptions. Or even in 10 minutes as there seem to be few exceptions. The problem is that ALL modders would have to do the same. Leaving lots of abandoned mods in the dust, so it would be better done early and when changing to a new major alpha as that leaves many abandoned mods behind anyway

 
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meganoth said:
PS: @jorbascrumps it is a rather straightforward simple change, it could be done in less than an hour to the xml with mass edit commands and some care to look for exceptions. Or even in 10 minutes as there seem to be few exceptions. The problem is that ALL modders would have to do the same. Leaving lots of abandoned mods in the dust, so it would be better done early and when changing to a new major alpha as that leaves many abandoned mods behind anyway
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I know the act of replacing the word is simple. The complexity I was referring to was the breakage of all of those mods.

Regardless, I took issue with the reason the request was made. The entitlement that the devs and community should make a change so that one person can have their code a certain way.

 
jorbascrumps said:
Regardless, I took issue with the reason the request was made. The entitlement that the devs and community should make a change so that one person can have their code a certain way.
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It's not really entitlement, it is just an understanding that some of the language we use today has a racist background to it.  Changing that past language is understanding that the words we use today based off of that history is hurtful to others.

And Code_Ovrld didn't demand any change, just brought it up and the reason the change was being asked to be made.

Quoting Code's original post

Wondering if you guys could make an update that changes all of your base xml definitions to something neutral. not saying anything wrong with Master, just saying there are other words that imply inheritance 
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A polite request and why it was made.  Everyone is allowed to ask for a change, it is up to the developers to decide if they want to make that change.

 
BFT2020 said:
It's not really entitlement, it is just an understanding that some of the language we use today has a racist background to it.  Changing that past language is understanding that the words we use today based off of that history is hurtful to others.

And Code_Ovrld didn't demand any change, just brought it up and the reason the change was being asked to be made.

Quoting Code's original post

A polite request and why it was made.  Everyone is allowed to ask for a change, it is up to the developers to decide if they want to make that change.
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The request had nothing to do with the word having racist connotations, it was purely for their code standards.

Code_Ovrld said:
I know how this turns into a troll farm, but not to be misinterpreted. I am conforming my coding standards so if anyone looks at my Mod and they see the Xml they can compare it with the ConfigDumps from the game to see what I am doing. I am using your code as a standard. I could change all my stuff and make it difficult for people to read or I could just propose a simple change. I am fine with you all doing nothing. Its just a suggestion not a call to arms.

Anyone thinking im making some political stand is just lying to themselves so they feel better. I have no cares in the world, i would just prefer to use neutral terms so when people see my work they dont think I am just like you. 
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jorbascrumps said:
I know the act of replacing the word is simple. The complexity I was referring to was the breakage of all of those mods.

Regardless, I took issue with the reason the request was made. The entitlement that the devs and community should make a change so that one person can have their code a certain way.
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I won't say anything about whether the people who want those words to vanish from common use are right or wrong (and discussing that would be a sure way to receive a warning in this forum by the way). But they obviously are not just a few.

The reason of the OP might be just to avoid controversy or he might not want to use the words himself in works he publishes. But the underlying reason of his request is clear in my opinion and originates from that rather large group of activists that also succeeded in removing the word "Master" in git.

 
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meganoth said:
Sorry, I seem to have made a mistake while searching for the term the first time and got no result. I searched again now and yes, TFP uses "Master" almost everywhere to denote templates that get inherited and get extended into actual items/blocks/...

So you want terms like "pouredRConcreteMaster" to be renamed to "pouredRConcreteMain" or "pouredRConcreteTemplate". Got it.

PS: @jorbascrumps it is a rather straightforward simple change, it could be done in less than an hour to the xml with mass edit commands and some care to look for exceptions. Or even in 10 minutes as there seem to be few exceptions. The problem is that ALL modders would have to do the same. Leaving lots of abandoned mods in the dust, so it would be better done early and when changing to a new major alpha as that leaves many abandoned mods behind anyway
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Seriously 100% fine with this response. Again just a suggestion but thank you for understanding what I was saying. 

Red Eagle LXIX said:
I took no issue with the request but I do find offense in the virtue signalling that came with the request.  Such as the "I don't want to be seen like you" (paraphrased).
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The correct quote is "when people see my work they dont think I am just like you"

 
I've also had a request to change terms like "master node" and "worker nodes" to primary and secondary nodes. But I feel such blanket requests for language change loses the simple straight forward description.

If I said master/worker nodes, most IT people would understand it is some kind of load distribution set up. If I said primary/secondary, am I talking an active/standby set up? A load distribution set up?

Technical documentation's primary purpose is to convey facts accurately. Inputed meaning and avoiding unintended offence is very much a secondary concern... unless you're trying to control thought with words. In which case, my comment is double plus ungood comrade!

 
Mister Forgash said:
.. All this talk makes me feel very insensitive for all those years I spent wanting to be a pokemon master. >.>
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Having never really gotten into Pokemon, I'm suddenly curious what y'all wanted to do with them...

Joking aside, talking about a master's degree could become weird too, I suppose. Google is showing me 12 different definitions for the word and 1 of them relates to slavery. I recognize that both language and society are fluid and could make a word unfavorable, kind of like the name "Adolf." While I think the game's (and git's) use isn't an issue, I can understand changes made to show support or solidarity with a cause.

 
Water overhaul seems to be abit of a mess in 21.

I get the need to re-balance water but some of whats being done makes little sense.

The lack of containers makes absolutely no sense as they would be laying around everywhere .

The half life of plastic is around 500 years  lol

What would make more sense is have drinking water only coming from dew collectors and murky water still easily collectible.

Have the murky water being unable to be cleaned (call it a non removable zombie virus or contamination )

This would allow for the water to be re-balanced but still allow for murky water being used in the making of duct tape and the like.

This would make a lot more sense and keep both sides happy.

Since breaking part of the game to fix another part of the game doesn't make a lot of sense.

 
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