PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow
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Viktoriusiii
New member
my interpretation of this
I didnt see that those skills were crafting only. that was my b. I thought it was now ALL skills.
But doesnt totally invalidate my point, only lessens it.
But since you don't unlock ANY recipes without looting... means stoneaxe FTW
I mean yes you can level into mining and find corresponding books faster... so you dont need to loot a lot...
but you still have to.
If you are a miner in a group of friends YOU need to loot to get a better chance of pickaxe or auger recipes.
Your friends only have a very low chance of getting anything for you.
my interpretation of this
I didnt see that those skills were crafting only. that was my b. I thought it was now ALL skills.
But doesnt totally invalidate my point, only lessens it.
But since you don't unlock ANY recipes without looting... means stoneaxe FTW
I mean yes you can level into mining and find corresponding books faster... so you dont need to loot a lot...
but you still have to.
If you are a miner in a group of friends YOU need to loot to get a better chance of pickaxe or auger recipes.
Your friends only have a very low chance of getting anything for you.
The loot buff seems to be relatively low, i.e. the friends will find miner-related magazines, they can't avoid it.
Trader has magazines as well, quests give magazines (1 specific or a stack of random).
Specific pois/ loot chests have themed magazines, so hardware store is the one-stop shop for miners I would guess
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Viktoriusiii
New member
well at least one way moles can progress through the game without looting
Although I don't suppose they will have a constant stock, because then it would undermine the whole point...: to force players looting and shooting Well I will see... but most moles probably already left or are still playing A16.4 modded
only mad moles would still be around...
eace: I'll be here all day! (actually going to bed though )
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
Wahhhh, did Vik actually take back something he said?
"There can be miracles.......when you believe...."
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Viktoriusiii
New member
@Laz Man I know this will surprise you... but I am constantly changing my opinion, because I hate being wrong.
Once being shown the truth, it might sometimes take a while, but I always work on myself.
Sadly Gamedevelopment is not an exact science, but rather an art and no matter how much evidence you bring up, it can all be uprooted by saying "but I like it".
This is why you will never convince anyone that boybands just pray on young horny teenage girls that listen with their eyes.
And I know that I might be wrong on some issues. But the simple fact, that the whole forum was once trying to convince me that my MATH (simple percentile math) was wrong, when it wasn't just showed me that I don't need to be overly critical of myself on here, because most people just repeat popular opinions, some are straight up tROL(AND)ling and some hate the game and just want to vent.
I just love the game too much to stay away for good. And I am of the firm belief that my input is valuable to them.
It might just be that they never read any of it, but still descided to do it... but a not small percentage of my bigger critiques and suggestions are actually implemented in one way or another
So I continue doing this... even if A17 was like a stake through my heart
Once being shown the truth, it might sometimes take a while, but I always work on myself.
Sadly Gamedevelopment is not an exact science, but rather an art and no matter how much evidence you bring up, it can all be uprooted by saying "but I like it".
This is why you will never convince anyone that boybands just pray on young horny teenage girls that listen with their eyes.
And I know that I might be wrong on some issues. But the simple fact, that the whole forum was once trying to convince me that my MATH (simple percentile math) was wrong, when it wasn't just showed me that I don't need to be overly critical of myself on here, because most people just repeat popular opinions, some are straight up tROL(AND)ling and some hate the game and just want to vent.
I just love the game too much to stay away for good. And I am of the firm belief that my input is valuable to them.
It might just be that they never read any of it, but still descided to do it... but a not small percentage of my bigger critiques and suggestions are actually implemented in one way or another
So I continue doing this... even if A17 was like a stake through my heart
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
@Laz Man I know this will surprise you... but I am constantly changing my opinion, because I hate being wrong.
Once being shown the truth, it might sometimes take a while, but I always work on myself.
Sadly Gamedevelopment is not an exact science, but rather an art and no matter how much evidence you bring up, it can all be uprooted by saying "but I like it".
This is why you will never convince anyone that boybands just pray on young horny teenage girls that listen with their eyes.
And I know that I might be wrong on some issues. But the simple fact, that the whole forum was once trying to convince me that my MATH (simple percentile math) was wrong, when it wasn't just showed me that I don't need to be overly critical of myself on here, because most people just repeat popular opinions, some are straight up tROL(AND)ling and some hate the game and just want to vent.
I just love the game too much to stay away for good. And I am of the firm belief that my input is valuable to them.
It might just be that they never read any of it, but still descided to do it... but a not small percentage of my bigger critiques and suggestions are actually implemented in one way or another
So I continue doing this... even if A17 was like a stake through my heart
Gamida
Hood Ornament
Games'n'Grumble
Active member
Can you prove it isn't a minority opinion?
Lasher
New member
Beelzebubs Ghost
New member
This has already been answered several times... basically, looting and exploring is an integral (core) part of the game.
If someone wants to play by staying in one location all the time while at the same time they want to earn everything the game has to offer, well, this is not the "right game".
I don't mean to be rude or attack your question, mind you, but it's just like someone playing a First-Person Shooter asking: "And what happens to the people who don't want to use weapons?" ... Well, they die!hwell:
Congratulations - that's a fallacy.
I understand @Viktoriusiii's question 100%. They said builders, miners, and farmers.
None of these things produce jeeps, AK47's, or chemistry benches. Or any of the other things that are outside the activities where looting is not required.
I wish people would be addressed honestly on this forum instead of being willfully or ignorantly misrepresented.
This game should really be 'Do as you please,' at least until a proper questline and endgame comes about. The idea that you are free to do as you please but..
*cough* can't avoid bloodmoons for one night by hiding (intrinsically balanced by the player giving up fun, exp, and potential loot)..
*cough* can't advance fully without looting (if things go the way they look.)
The forced direction (along with this; book collection, which I see as a means of a cheap way of extendng play time - and no, I'm not interested in rehashing...) has; in my eyes, ruined the old charm of the game.
On topic, single player vs multiplayer - what's the deal with the books? When you have multiplayer people can specialise, but for those of us who (sometimes) choose to play alone (or have no choice) - then what's the gig? Having to collect an absurd number of books will become (I imagine) unbearably tedious when you don't have the multiplayer split work and specific roles (miner, farmer, builder, defender, doctor etc.)
Any word on this?
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What now? Is Jost willingly or ignorantly misrepresenting? Can't have it both ways. I hope I understand Vics AND Jost posts and both have a point.
Jost is simply saying that looting is central to the game while building, mining and farming are second-class. In single player just staying in one place and mining is almost impossible (with the help of the trader probably still doable though).
Building, farming and mining are still secondary goals to win the game by the way. To solve your food problems eventually farming is the solution (hunting another), to solve horde night defense building is the answer and for ammo supply mining is the final answer.
And Vic is right in asking what about people who want to specialize into mining/building/farming? There were players who liked to do that. And the answer is that yes, they need to depend on their co-players for things like magazines. But that isn't new, in MP the miner or farmer would always get armor and weapons from his friends, couldn't that be part of the specialization as well ?
The alternative, especially for single players, is to advance at a snails pace (trader has everything, just not in abundant quantities)
7D2D is far from a 100% sandbox by now and it was (according to kickstarter) never planned to be.
The forced direction (along with this; book collection, which I see as a means of a cheap way of extendng play time - and no, I'm not interested in rehashing...) has; in my eyes, ruined the old charm of the game.
On topic, single player vs multiplayer - what's the deal with the books? When you have multiplayer people can specialise, but for those of us who (sometimes) choose to play alone (or have no choice) - then what's the gig? Having to collect an absurd number of books will become (I imagine) unbearably tedious when you don't have the multiplayer split work and specific roles (miner, farmer, builder, defender, doctor etc.)
Any word on this?
Single player had always slower progression than MP, MP always had the advantage of specialization. I don't think this change will make SP players progress slower, it will be the same as before (if TFP finds the right balance). Just don't expect a pure doctor to be a very useful specialization, that never was a thing. Again, this is not a pure sandbox, and this is also not a massively-multiplayer game where someone actually could put up shop as a doctor.
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
I wish people on this forum would be addressed properly and not called dishonest because the other part does not share the same opinion.
If you're implying that Builders, Miners and Farmers don't need to learn to craft in MP, well, that's up to them.
They can completely ignore the crafting aspect of the game and do what they do. Somebody else in the group will take the "crafter role", I suppose.
RipClaw
Well-known member
It depends on how many of the magazines drop on average per day if you don't push it.
A single player can't do everything at once. He has to manage his time. The question is how much time we have to invest in looting to have equipment that is suitable for the gamestage.
Beelzebubs Ghost
New member
It's not my place to say which because I try not to speak to the intent of the individual, but those are the only two options per statement, without delving into finitude and pedantic analysis of nuance.
I have no idea what you mean by I '...can't have it both ways.'
No-one said neither or either do or don't have points.
The former asked a question which (something I find annoying) pushes people not so big into looting excessively (for entire collections of books or mods etc).
The latter addressed it in a manner which looked very much like we will be looting in such a way whether we like it or not.
I interjected and gave my analysis and opinion, and hoped to separate the two points. One thing I can say about your response however, I appreciate the honesty with 'If' the devs get the balance right.
And the difference between SP and MP? This is precisely my point. Giving people options and sliders, switches and knobs, dials and levers - stuff to customise the game each wants to play will play to nothing but the strength and success of the game. The alternative isn't very pretty.
Anyway I appreciate the response.
Again, I appreciate the response - and I don't know whether you didn't read my post properly or whether you have a problem formulating a response which is honestly connected to the point I made.
The options are not just 'Tediously boring' or 'Have everything at once.'
I mean no disrespect - seriously, but this really is an issue that has to be addressed. Gating in this manner is in my opinion ridiculous for reasons I will not get into (but can support if necessary) and it can backfire if not properly addressed.
There has been a lot of discussion on here on the balance between SP and Multiplayer, but I think the way TFP have gone about addressing genuine problems (and created more along the way) has been poor in many respects.
Thank you for your reply, anyway. It's nice to see a non-toxic response
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
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