Jost Amman
Well-known member
You misunderstand, the bad apples I was talking about are not the players, are some other devs that have actually exploited and scammed people using Early Access.
PC This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.
- Thread starter Kyonshi
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Small correction. Those type of people don't mind if it's on the other end of the spectrum and you post how great TFP and the game is. You will be welcomed with open arms.
But if you have anything negative to say then you had better get ready to feel the wrath of the those who are so far stuck up....you know....that it automatically gets written off and labeled as "dey only doing it for moneyz" by the fragile, dismissive and....you know....type people who act like you just disrespected their grandmother at a funeral. Butt, even if you are polite and bring up a real issue you will be told to "mod the game if you don't like it". This is a goto move by the ....you know...type people.
Any and all constructive criticism is only allowed under 4 conditions.
A) You MUST be a....you know. Whether its a mod on the forum or a wannabe mod (which is VERY rare because those types are usually too busy....you know.)
B) Being a well known modder in the community is a big plus. Your complaints will garner more attention and be received much better by the community than the average person.
C) You must say a minimum of 5 nice things about TFP and the game when also posting constructive criticism, otherwise you will be met with...well...you know.
D) Accept the fact that it's pointless to ever post any kind of construction criticism at all without be met with everything mentioned here because of these type of .....you know.
Welcome to the community by the way.
It is actually very true that forums tend to collect people with a positive opinion about the developers game. I for example wouldn't be here for such a long time and would not have taken the job as moderator if I wasn't largely pleased with the general direction of the game.
It follows that someone gets more dissenting posts when he posts critical stuff than if he were praising something.
You say somewhere "But even if you are polite...". "EVEN IF". You do realize that it should idealy be "ONLY IF". Some people are used to or think it is necessary to be rude to get heard (partly that is a cultural thing). Whether that is true or not they should not be surprised to get likewise replies back in an otherwise friendly forum. And this should not be the place to vent frustration either.
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youcantgetridofme
New member
Oh yeah. So, if we should not vent frustrations with the game here on the forum, then where do you suggest people do that? Is a forum not meant for open discussion on all subjects and matters (venting frustrations included) surrounding the game and TFP? People can vent and still have a civil discussion, but I appears that isn't welcome here on this forum.
Sal is right and it shows in your last comment. It's also why a lot of people don't bother commenting on the forum or Steam message board for that matter. TFP is really only getting opinions and views from one side of the fence. As you said yourself, this isn't the place to vent frustrations. Those people who want to comment on subjects know exactly what will happen if they voice their discontent and so do you. It's also why some content creators are going through YouTube instead, to voice their opinion.
Reach Gaming is right. Nobody seems to want to talk about it and it's sad. I've tried many times over on Steam, but it was met with a lot of arrogance, ignorance and well, straight up disrespect and it was allowed by the you know who's. The you know who's even at some points assisted others' trolling comments to get reactions and create a situation which eventually results in a you know what.
Sal and Reach Gaming are right. Some people may disagree and that's OK It's OK to agree to disagree. I have lots I'd like to say about the company and game, but alas I keep silent and don't say much because even if it is respectful and polite venting it'll go ignored or be dismissed.
In your own words, "... this should not be the place to vent frustration ..."
@Sal and Reach Gaming spoke the truth.
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They spoke their opinion.
By calling it "truth" you renege on your "Some people may disagree and that's OK It's OK to agree to disagree."
You are essentially calling those that disagree liars and invalidating their opinion without even hearing it.
Mr Reach doesn't bring forward anything new to the discussion. It's the same positions and opinions that are put forward daily here. Regardless of what timelines, mechanics, and "game" the players want, its must be recognized that the game is still early access.
Players have the agency to opt in and opt out as they see fit.
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youcantgetridofme
New member
Anyone who understands how opinions work knows what I said is an opinion. I did not anywhere say it was a fact. You're picking through the haystack to find a needle that isn't there. I also said 'may' - not will, not does, but may. That means some people might disagree with me. I did not essentially call anyone a liar nor invalidated anyone's opinions either. I can't very well do that if nobody's commented their opinions now can I? What's happened is you didn't like my comment and you got triggered. Chill. They're just opinions.
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
Youtubers can be great supporters for games, however their opinions must always be taken with a grain of salt.
Especially those who have controversial opinions and/or thumbnails on their videos.
They benefit greatly from more views/subs so even more so...
If he truly wanted a discussion he could of posted here but chose to have a one sided narrative instead.
Especially those who have controversial opinions and/or thumbnails on their videos.
They benefit greatly from more views/subs so even more so...
If he truly wanted a discussion he could of posted here but chose to have a one sided narrative instead.
What is open or civil about venting frustration? Venting frustration means you turn off your brain and start a rant. You let your negative feelings form your words and you want to hurt with your words. I may be misunderstanding the words though, english is not my first language.
I can immediately point you to polite negative views posted here in the forum and nothing desastruous happens. Nothing I can notice.
Matt115 is mostly a critic of the overall direction of the game and wants a darker 7D2D. Do people aggressively shout him down? Are his posts deleted?
Sal posts overwhelmingly negative comments. Is he shouted down? Are his posts deleted?
Is he getting counter-arguments or dislikes? Yes, that can happen.
So what do you fear exactly? Getting counter-argument posts? Isn't that what an open discussion is about?
Or is it the dislikes? I'm no fan of the dislikes, but they are of no consequence and I can't prevent people using them. Use them yourself. Or make an argument that dislikes should be removed from the forum, I'll happily support you in that.
Can't comment on that, I'm not reading the steam forums. I'm only seeing what happens here. Have you been unfairly treated here or is someone calling you names? Then report it (even if the culprit were me, by the way). Simple and effective way to get too aggressive people off your back
How do you know it is dismissed? If I or anyone else argues with you it does say nothing about whether a developer has read your post and maybe noticed that many people said the same and it might be a problem.
Or he read your post, had a different opinion and dismissed it. Yes, both is possible. It is hard to convince people that they have been wrong about something
Keep on saying what you think in a polite way and you might not be the most popular guy on the forum but you won't be thrown out either. And the best thing is that developers usually don't have the time to read any replies to your post. If at all they probably will just read your (initial) post.
Case in point: Roland even removes most replies from the Dev Dairy so that devs only see the feedback and not the discussions afterwards.
We clearly have a different understanding of those words.
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youcantgetridofme
New member
Vent
verb. /vent/ vent your anger/frustration, etc. to do or say something to show your anger or another strong, bad feeling.
So as you can see, venting frustration can be done civilly while still being polite and respectful is possible. Exactly what Reach Gaming did.
Indeed it is.
To understand it all you would have had to have been on Steam watching what the PR guys were doing. A few on this forum hang out on the Steam discussion board. They were involved in baiting and indirect subtle trolling as a group. It was OK for the PR guys to go along with it and troll me, but it wasn't OK for me to return the favour in a respectful way. Instead they straight up knee jerked and because I wasn't praising the game and hailing to TFP, I was bias ejected from the community. Ejected because I did not highly praise the game and because I had negative constructive criticism. They lumped my comments as being 'trolling' and 'baiting' and they banned me for doing what they were doing long before I started playing with the same cards they were playing with. It was all a process that lapsed over the course of several months.
Being banned for having opinions about the company and / or game - that somebody will grudge me over my opinions and work with others (which happened on Steam) to sway an unjust ban simply because they didn't like what I had to say. The PR guys were going along with it too, allowing these other people to group report me repeatedly, to encourage a ban. They even said they had been discussing it for a while. I knew it was coming eventually because they simply don't like my feedback. One even admitted openly to having a bias for the game and TFP. Because of that bias and disagreement with my comments plus staged reports, I was unjustly banned.
See above. Their PR / moderators could pass notes along to the devs, but when some of them have a strong bias, there is an extremely high probability those comments will be dismissed and disregarded.
He could have posted here, but sometimes more can be said with words and voice inflection to get a point across better. Some people don't like to type and prefer talking through a video. Lots of things to consider. YouTube is a big platform and a great place to put out a message you want heard or seen, to see what others think on the subject. TFPs forum has a very tiny population contrasted to that of YouTube.
Granted, some people do this, but not all do. It's become more of a thing to stereotype content creators because they have the option to monetise videos to earn a living.
Well, that comment should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because someone chooses to use a different platform to express themselves doesn't make it any different than expressing our views here. Some people prefer to make videos and some people prefer to type. Either platform is a way to express ourselves and should be treated equally without bias.
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MichaelL.
New member
Ummm... Maybe everyone should consider taking a step back for a bit.
While I've had a great time playing the game - and even more fun as a prefabber... It's a game. That's it. While there are times when I get laser focused on building prefabs - and it's something that I thoroughly enjoy - at the end of the day it's still just a game. My life - and hopefully nobody's life (aside from the developers) - is not dependent on the outcome of this game. I do what I do with this game because I find it challenging and engaging. What I've ultimately gotten out of it as a player/prefabber/budding modder has been well worth whatever I'd paid for it. But it's not the center of my existence. I realize that many social media/youtubers have gone all-in and centered their livelihoods (quite successfully) specifically on this game. in reality that is a short-lived endeavor. Hopefully, they will realize that this is not a lifetime strategy and have made the necessary plans for continuing their successes for the future. I enjoy Reach Gaming, but in the end, he - nor is anybody else in the gaming community - is the final arbitrator on the direction of this game.
Listen. Games are not expected to keep a players undivided attention for their entire lifetime. That's just silly. Most games, you play them, you 'win' them, then you move on. Occasionly you'll go back to them when you're 'currently ' bored. In truth, if 7D2D had been released initially as a fully completed game, it would have been hot for a good while, then we'd either see 8D2D a few years later, or it would be a fond memory of game's past.
Games come and go. And even though there have been many years of development put into 7D2D, I think it's also safe to say we've all gotten many years of enjoyment out of it. But ultimately it's TFP's call as to how they decide to proceed. It's awesome that they've been extremely open to the public on the direction of the game. It's pretty much unprecedented. I haven't always agreed with the changes they've made, and there are quite a few things i would like to see added. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's THEIR game, it's their business, and it's their call on the end product.
Just my semi-drunken rant.....
While I've had a great time playing the game - and even more fun as a prefabber... It's a game. That's it. While there are times when I get laser focused on building prefabs - and it's something that I thoroughly enjoy - at the end of the day it's still just a game. My life - and hopefully nobody's life (aside from the developers) - is not dependent on the outcome of this game. I do what I do with this game because I find it challenging and engaging. What I've ultimately gotten out of it as a player/prefabber/budding modder has been well worth whatever I'd paid for it. But it's not the center of my existence. I realize that many social media/youtubers have gone all-in and centered their livelihoods (quite successfully) specifically on this game. in reality that is a short-lived endeavor. Hopefully, they will realize that this is not a lifetime strategy and have made the necessary plans for continuing their successes for the future. I enjoy Reach Gaming, but in the end, he - nor is anybody else in the gaming community - is the final arbitrator on the direction of this game.
Listen. Games are not expected to keep a players undivided attention for their entire lifetime. That's just silly. Most games, you play them, you 'win' them, then you move on. Occasionly you'll go back to them when you're 'currently ' bored. In truth, if 7D2D had been released initially as a fully completed game, it would have been hot for a good while, then we'd either see 8D2D a few years later, or it would be a fond memory of game's past.
Games come and go. And even though there have been many years of development put into 7D2D, I think it's also safe to say we've all gotten many years of enjoyment out of it. But ultimately it's TFP's call as to how they decide to proceed. It's awesome that they've been extremely open to the public on the direction of the game. It's pretty much unprecedented. I haven't always agreed with the changes they've made, and there are quite a few things i would like to see added. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's THEIR game, it's their business, and it's their call on the end product.
Just my semi-drunken rant.....
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I simply challenged the indication that Sal, and Mr Reach's opinions were "truth". "Truth" has pretty strong connotations as does the opposite. Perhaps is was an innocent remark and I misinterpreted your meaning however truth and opinion are not interchangeable.
The opinions and frustrations of a sub-set of players with respect to the development process is well known and documented here. Some readers ignore it entirely, some tire of the endless reframing and rehashing of the same old talking points, and some do not want the forum to be an echo chamber for one side or the other, so they engage occationally.
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Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
I want to apologize for my blanket statement about youtubers. I certainly have seen my fill of inflammatory youtube videos in the past about 7D2D and lumped in his video with the rest. After re-watching his video, I can feel his genuine worry and concern about the changes in the upcoming Alpha...
I can empathize with how he feels given how many Alphas he has experienced and all of the changes that have gone back and forth. It is my opinion that part of his frustration is due to the fact he has played and featured the game for so long, the current content has grown stale. For example, he mentions his disappointment that additional content such as vehicles, etc. may never be added.
All I can add to the topic is that the team is fully aware how long the game has been in development and is prioritizing finishing promised kickstarter features (e.g. bandits, story, etc.) before entertaining additional features such as more vehicles and such.
For reference, Allan, posted this response to Reach's video which is currently pinned at the top of it.
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
Great post! I completely agree with this take on all the "situation".Ummm... Maybe everyone should consider taking a step back for a bit.
While I've had a great time playing the game - and even more fun as a prefabber... It's a game. That's it. While there are times when I get laser focused on building prefabs - and it's something that I thoroughly enjoy - at the end of the day it's still just a game. My life - and hopefully nobody's life (aside from the developers) - is not dependent on the outcome of this game. I do what I do with this game because I find it challenging and engaging. What I've ultimately gotten out of it as a player/prefabber/budding modder has been well worth whatever I'd paid for it. But it's not the center of my existence. I realize that many social media/youtubers have gone all-in and centered their livelihoods (quite successfully) specifically on this game. in reality that is a short-lived endeavor. Hopefully, they will realize that this is not a lifetime strategy and have made the necessary plans for continuing their successes for the future. I enjoy Reach Gaming, but in the end, he - nor is anybody else in the gaming community - is the final arbitrator on the direction of this game.
Listen. Games are not expected to keep a players undivided attention for their entire lifetime. That's just silly. Most games, you play them, you 'win' them, then you move on. Occasionly you'll go back to them when you're 'currently ' bored. In truth, if 7D2D had been released initially as a fully completed game, it would have been hot for a good while, then we'd either see 8D2D a few years later, or it would be a fond memory of game's past.
Games come and go. And even though there have been many years of development put into 7D2D, I think it's also safe to say we've all gotten many years of enjoyment out of it. But ultimately it's TFP's call as to how they decide to proceed. It's awesome that they've been extremely open to the public on the direction of the game. It's pretty much unprecedented. I haven't always agreed with the changes they've made, and there are quite a few things i would like to see added. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's THEIR game, it's their business, and it's their call on the end product.
Just my semi-drunken rant.....
I'll use your post, sir, if you allow me, to segway into my own opinion...
I think there are a lot of people, in the on-line communities like Steam, 7D2D, YouTube and so on... that are subconsciously channeling their own life frustrations into this or that game, this or that fight. Many times I've been called a "fanboy" or "white knight", or even a "shill" on Steam, when I opposed the point of view of people who seem to fight changes to the game that they don't agree with, with the same conviction as if they were fighting for the survival of humankind or for the right to vote in their country.
Things have really gone bonkers in my opinion, and the explanation is that there are other problems, in the (real) life of most of those people, which they can't/won't address, so they come here (or on other games' forums) to bring on their "righteous" fight in a completely irrelevant context just to compensate for that.
What most people don't understand about me, is that when I agree with the devs, or praise the game, it's simply because I've been able to play almost all Alpha versions of this game without any major issues, I had a lot of fun in each of them, and I'm also not burning myself out on the game. I enjoy(ed) the game, I almost never exprience bugs and when I'm bored with vanilla, I can play one of the great mods, also that thanks to the commitment to modding that the devs themselves always have had.
In fact, I often play other games when I have time, and even change genre! Would you believe it?
When I read people calling me a shill, TFP PR, white knight or fanboy, I just chuckle and sometimes I even feel sorry at how "mentally focused" they are to reach a point where they feel the need to hate someone they don't even know, on something so irrelevant as a game or an opinion on a game.
On the other side, when the devs are accused of being lazy, shady, unprofessional and so forth... I often find myself defending them, not because I owe them something or because I need their approval, but because my real life job is, in some ways, similar to theirs (I'm a freelance in a completely different field...) so I can kind of understand their difficulties, challenges, hurdles and in general how they work.
When some people, like I said before, become very polarized, they can only see shenanigans, plots against them by the devs and/or other people, and in general they create their own conspiracy theories to explain why their polarized point of view is not readily accepted by all. Then when they're criticized or even refuted with facts, they lash out and start name-calling. I've seen this too many times, that's how "internet and people" works.
One other aspect is also probably AGE. Culture has changed a lot depending on what generation you're from, so there's also some kind of cultural barrier between some older gamers (like me) and the younger ones. We don't understand them, and they don't understand us, because we come from completely different places IMO. Of course, I think they're often entitled brats
and want everything served on a silver platter, but I also know this is my biased point of view! 
hwell: I really don't care about the insults when I defend the game or the devs, since my life does not revolve around 7D2D (or gaming in general). On the other hand, I feel kind of sorry for these people who think I'm part of some conspiracy, because I think that they must have their own load of issues in real life.
hwell: The game will go in the direction the devs deem best, and people have to accept that. You may not like the direction where the game is going, but you can't treat development choices by the devs, like if it was a coupe d'etat removing democracy in your country. Chill down.
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Ok. But even if you can politely vent frustration, that is a fine line and in my experience as a mod an angered discussion often turns into a flamewar. Getting emotional is a recipe for losing control over your own words. Banning happens after people cross the line into impolite and it doesn't matter much what happened before or who started it.
And being baited can not work as an excuse, because then everybody could violate forum rules and nobody ever could be banned for it.
Ok, but I'm hearing only one side here. If you have ever read both sides of a heated dispute you would know that usually both sides have an entirely different view who started it and how that dispute went along. And it is always the other side that started the dispute. But in reality it is a slow deterioration where all are at fault for continually increasing the heat.
The sensible thing is to simply stop when you see things get emotional. But that is very hard to do, everyone wants the last word and correct all the wrong things the other side said. I know that too well myself.
While moderators in reality can never be completely unbiased, there is usually more than one and everyone comments on the decisions of others. A moderator doing above would likely not be moderator for long, unless all work together to misuse the system
If you were banned read the message for which you were banned again. Posters don't get banned for whatever is in a month long series of exchanges, they are always banned for the last message or messages that went too far.
Again, I can't judge what is true from only hearing one side of the story. Read the post or posts for which you were banned. If you can honestly say to yourself there is no flaming, no direct attack at other persons in there or any other rules violation, then yes, you were unjustly framed. If not it doesn't matter if someone was coercing you or that some people group reported you.
We are community moderators here and on steam, not employees. I never ever pass notes to devs. I have no special line to them. As a moderator I moderate, full stop. And as a normal forum user I have exactly the same ways to talk to a dev, by posting in the dev diary or start a thread anywhere in the forum.
Roland is special. He actually can bring up information to them, but AFAIK he will do that only in exceptional circumstances.
To my knowledge there are no PR guys employed by TFP at all.
Youtube is almost always a one-way street, some influencer posting his opinion, mostly unchallenged. That is what I generally don't like about youtube as a source of information. In a forum a reader sees all sides of an argument and all facts.
This is not a comment on Reach though, just generally on Youtube.
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Matt115
New member
Frustation is not always being rude. frustration =/= rude. You can be frustrated and in this same time trying to be gentle.
Steam is not this same as 7DTD forum. 7DTD is more.... "effective" administrated. Steam is just wall where people write everything and city service don't have enough time to clean.
Reach gaming is right about making over and over.
Well : sometimes the best option is use the most "popular" option - i think some people don't read this forum but watch a lot of youtubers right?
Being controvesial is... even controversial. For most cod youtubers ASBM is bad and not controversial ( i mean most most proplayers and content creators agree about that) but controversial in devs eyes.
Some of them have specific way of talking etc. but well this is not because they have to do this in interesting way :
for example let's take topic of zombie children in 7dtd and two ways of making video about that :
1. construtive - night of living dead as first zombie game , using zombie kids as "ethical trap" in some movies etc. long true and... for most people boring so small number of views so chances that people like devs/moders etc. will saw this video is law
2. emotional - flamming, using rude words etc - short, a lot of views and comments so bigger chance that someone "important" will watch it.
This is just socialtechnics how to influence on people
Well i agree about that well so meganoth is right about that
Well I think he is frustrated about .... lack of post/ only dislikes. Because this is so frustating. Spend sometime even few hours to find sources and.... don't get any replay or only few dislikes is sometimes deppresing. why? if someone comment you post at least you know they don't agree with you
Well - l4d2 community is very alive, Heroes 3 this same thing etc. Total war? a lot of people create content from older games like medieval total war 2. But nothing new is added oficial to this gameUmmm... Maybe everyone should consider taking a step back for a bit.
While I've had a great time playing the game - and even more fun as a prefabber... It's a game. That's it. While there are times when I get laser focused on building prefabs - and it's something that I thoroughly enjoy - at the end of the day it's still just a game. My life - and hopefully nobody's life (aside from the developers) - is not dependent on the outcome of this game. I do what I do with this game because I find it challenging and engaging. What I've ultimately gotten out of it as a player/prefabber/budding modder has been well worth whatever I'd paid for it. But it's not the center of my existence. I realize that many social media/youtubers have gone all-in and centered their livelihoods (quite successfully) specifically on this game. in reality that is a short-lived endeavor. Hopefully, they will realize that this is not a lifetime strategy and have made the necessary plans for continuing their successes for the future. I enjoy Reach Gaming, but in the end, he - nor is anybody else in the gaming community - is the final arbitrator on the direction of this game.
Listen. Games are not expected to keep a players undivided attention for their entire lifetime. That's just silly. Most games, you play them, you 'win' them, then you move on. Occasionly you'll go back to them when you're 'currently ' bored. In truth, if 7D2D had been released initially as a fully completed game, it would have been hot for a good while, then we'd either see 8D2D a few years later, or it would be a fond memory of game's past.
Games come and go. And even though there have been many years of development put into 7D2D, I think it's also safe to say we've all gotten many years of enjoyment out of it. But ultimately it's TFP's call as to how they decide to proceed. It's awesome that they've been extremely open to the public on the direction of the game. It's pretty much unprecedented. I haven't always agreed with the changes they've made, and there are quite a few things i would like to see added. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's THEIR game, it's their business, and it's their call on the end product.
Just my semi-drunken rant.....
In this same time cod vanguard is still supported and is so... dead. A lot of createors complain that they don't have nothing to do about cod
Well honestly that's why i hope we will get DLC
maybe i complain a lot but i love this game. Changes are not.... how to say this right... hm... "additional" content. drinking water will be change but this like take from basket one apple and put another apple. This will be diffrent apple but number of apples will be this same. So if instead : there would be added radiactive rivers or food spoling this will be like increase number of apples in basket Well i think Jost this happens because people... are just something positive. Some alpha ( i mean X.X) had some issues. I mean not bad because content etc. but bugs, strange changes that broke things - i remember that in one of smaller updates something was changed and i lose a lot of FPS so this game unplayable for me. Idk what was happening there.Great post! I completely agree with this take on all the "situation".
I'll use your post, sir, if you allow me, to segway into my own opinion...
I think there are a lot of people, in the on-line communities like Steam, 7D2D, YouTube and so on... that are subconsciously channeling their own life frustrations into this or that game, this or that fight. Many times I've been called a "fanboy" or "white knight", or even a "shill" on Steam, when I opposed the point of view of people who seem to fight changes to the game that they don't agree with, with the same conviction as if they were fighting for the survival of humankind or for the right to vote in their country.
Things have really gone bonkers in my opinion, and the explanation is that there are other problems, in the (real) life of most of those people, which they can't/won't address, so they come here (or on other games' forums) to bring on their "righteous" fight in a completely irrelevant context just to compensate for that.
What most people don't understand about me, is that when I agree with the devs, or praise the game, it's simply because I've been able to play almost all Alpha versions of this game without any major issues, I had a lot of fun in each of them, and I'm also not burning myself out on the game. I enjoy(ed) the game, I almost never exprience bugs and when I'm bored with vanilla, I can play one of the great mods, also that thanks to the commitment to modding that the devs themselves always have had.
In fact, I often play other games when I have time, and even change genre! Would you believe it?
When I read people calling me a shill, TFP PR, white knight or fanboy, I just chuckle and sometimes I even feel sorry at how "mentally focused" they are to reach a point where they feel the need to hate someone they don't even know, on something so irrelevant as a game or an opinion on a game.
On the other side, when the devs are accused of being lazy, shady, unprofessional and so forth... I often find myself defending them, not because I owe them something or because I need their approval, but because my real life job is, in some ways, similar to theirs (I'm a freelance in a completely different field...) so I can kind of understand their difficulties, challenges, hurdles and in general how they work.
When some people, like I said before, become very polarized, they can only see shenanigans, plots against them by the devs and/or other people, and in general they create their own conspiracy theories to explain why their polarized point of view is not readily accepted by all. Then when they're criticized or even refuted with facts, they lash out and start name-calling.
One other aspect is also probably AGE. Culture has changed a lot depending on what generation you're from, so there's also some kind of cultural barrier between some older gamers (like me) and the younger ones. We don't understand them, and they don't understand us, because we come from completely different places IMO. Of course, I think they're often entitled brats
I really don't care about the insults when I defend the game or the devs, since my life does not revolve around 7D2D (or gaming in general). On the other hand, I feel kind of sorry for these people who think I'm part of some conspiracy, because I think that they must have their own load of issues in real life.
The game will go in the direction the devs deem best, and people have to accept that. You may not like the direction where the game is going, but you can't treat development choices by the devs, like if it was a coupe d'etat removing democracy in your country. Chill down.
"I've seen this too many times, that's how "internet and people" works." well is true because in IRL they just could start fighting etc. but they are safe while argue with people using internet right?
Well age and culture is big... thing too. Well for me zombie teenagers is nothing controversial - night of living dead have zombie girl, in one of the new zombie movie Soviet partisant is killed by zombie because he had ethical issues about kiling zombie boy etc. but for me it's just fine - i read books and watch more brutal school reading in my primary schools - still i remember a school trip and some paitings in museum were like very hardcore horror movie ( like old italian horrors)
Well that's halve true - someworld can be for someone "normal" but for someone can be rude
Jost Amman
Well-known member
People insulting me and calling me a "shill" because I don't agree with them... well, I wouldn't define them "positive"! :lol:
It's not rocket science... we're just, you know... talking! :heh:
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Roland
Moderator
I agree that Alphas 12 and 13 saw some simplification changes for the benefit of consoles which were mostly in the form of control schemes (everything got a radial menu) and the interface changes (List style crafting)
But you are going to have to give examples of changes in A17-A20 of your claim. In A17 - A19 TFP thought console would be no more other than the currently existing game which woulld never again get an update and wasn’t the same as PC anyway so they wouldn’t have made any such changes.
In A20 they started realizing they could do a console version for the new consoles which are not exactly underpowered. So, maybe there could have been some dumbing down as you claim. The server issues are definitely an example of console affecting PC play, but cross play isn’t exactly a “dumbing down” type of change
So what are these recent dumbing down changes that have been made specifically to somehow cram this game into the underpowered PS5 or XBox Series? Typically, when they have to make concessions in the game it is so that it works with Unity….
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