PC This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.

[Maharin]

Spoiler

 

[Matt115]

An AK is an AK, how much different would you expect it to be??  :lol:

AKm 74/2 | S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Wiki | Fandom

Idk if this will be looks good -  This stalker AKm 74/2 typical ak.  I undestand why Fallout 4  Ak have shovel parts - this happens 100 - 200 yo  after nuclear war, alternative universe, ghuls, mutants, most people don't remember how worlds was looking before war. But - 7dtd looks it would happens 10 years after - so this mean most guns will be still in very  good condition - so modifications like this would be useless - it would be much easier to find another gun. TLOU 1 have looking more... logical "modifications"

 

[Jost Amman]

AKm 74/2 | S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Wiki | Fandom

Idk if this will be looks good -  This stalker AKm 74/2 typical ak.  I undestand why Fallout 4  Ak have shovel parts - this happens 100 - 200 yo  after nuclear war, alternative universe, ghuls, mutants, most people don't remember how worlds was looking before war. But - 7dtd looks it would happens 10 years after - so this mean most guns will be still in very  good condition - so modifications like this would be useless - it would be much easier to find another gun. TLOU 1 have looking more... logical "modifications"

Ok. But you're making up your own lore here... the devs have never confirmed any specific lore on purpose, they wanted each player to make up their own story in their minds. On the other hand, since there's no "official lore" of what really happened or how many years ago, you can't assume anything. You could be right or you could be wrong.

 

[Roland]

I was talked about game industry - usually if a lot of things is cutted or changed a lot that's mean something bad is happpening with produced game. 

Based on what evidence?  How much is “a lot”? I said making cuts is a normal part of the editing process and you said it is a sign of disaster. I asked for some evidence and you listed several games that you could not possibly have compared the pre-edited versions to the final product. Now you say again that making a lot of cuts is an industry known sign that the game has problems. Evidence?  
 

As for horror, you are saying that the style of the guns is what makes or breaks this as a true horror experience for you?  Because the guns look more stylistically like mad max it makes it impossible for you to think of the game as horror?  I don’t think like that. My definitions of what qualifies as horror seem to be very different than yours. In my opinion, if any random person watched gameplay of 7 Days to Die they would think it pretty gruesome and horror themed. I’m betting there are parents that play this game out of sight of their younger children because the violence and horror elements are deemed to be too much. 
 

Horror is probably in the eye of the Beholder….heheh

 

[Rotor]

As a FnG, I like the game, I like it the way it is for its most parts. 

I.e., I think Romero Mod is more like it, with some tweaks, 'cause even that aint my definition of "perfect"

There is one solution.  Everyone develop their own 7D2D...........oh WAIT!  Is there a MOD for that? .

 

[KhaineGB]

The netcode is under construction. There are necessary changes happening that show that TFP are engaged with ALL of their customers. The current network status is not the intended final product. If it is unbearable to play under current conditions then by all means take a break and keep checking back. 

Tell them to have a look at Mirror on the unity store.

I'm not saying "use this, it's good", but my experimentation with it has found it to be a very solid networking solution. I believe it is open source along with free.

Maybe something that can be used to get ideas from/as a base/whatever else?

 

[Sal]

People throw around the term development hell a lot with TFP, but I think they are overusing the phase and it doesn't really apply to TFP. 

You say this and then go on a long rant of excuses as to why the game is still the way it is after nearly 10 years and use the "development" changes as a reason behind it.

It seems like you only want the term "development" to be used whenever it fits your point of view.

If this game was only released ~2 years ago then you would have a point. But it's been out for nearly 10 years with several constant major changes to the core game itself from each version and eventually people get to the point of "I'll believe it when I see it but I don't have much faith". Because that's whats been offered and that's on TFP themselves.  This last release has some good aspects in the game no doubt. But it also has alot of bad points as well. Some of the issues are still there from A17 bug reports that haven't been addressed. Hell, look at the new folder structure BS (which is a big issue). All of this points to the game declining. So why should I think A21 is going to be any different than it was from A17 to A18, or A18-19, or A19 to 20 when they haven't given me any reason to believe it will? Because its "new" and going "gold"?

He is entitled to his thoughts, but that doesn't make them right.

Neither does yours.

 

[Jost Amman]

You say this and then go on a long rant of excuses as to why the game is still the way it is after nearly 10 years and use the "development" changes as a reason behind it.

Is still "the way it is"?? What does that even mean? You're so bent on hating the game, you don't even realize some of us are happy of "the way it is".

We know there's stuff to fix and stuff to balance, but that's it.

Hell, look at the new folder structure BS (which is a big issue).

If you don't know why the folder structure changes are necessary, don't embarrass yourself.

Everything is done for a reason. The folder location change is necessary to support cross-platform play (for a future console re-release) and Win11 and Microsoft standards.

It's not even the big issue you describe, in fact, several modders have already adapted to the new standard.

All of this points to the game declining. So why should I think A21 is going to be any different than it was from A17 to A18, or A18-19, or A19 to 20 when they haven't given me any reason to believe it will?

You would never think anything positive because the issue here it's not the development, it's your own twisted vision of it. You have your ideas and opinions, fine. But the devs don't get development directions from players or even from other devs.

Let them do their job and let them decide what they need to do first, second, and last.

And if they don't like how something has come out, they'll change it, it's their prerogative.

 

[Urban Blackbear]

I always take reviews with a huge grain of salt. Said grain of salt being the maker trying to monetize it.

 

[meganoth]

He is not wrong. I've been playing since 10 and I would be counted among those that feel like there is no real direction. Too many removals, too many changes to what the game was originally supposed to be. 

Can we agree that the feature list of kickstarter is the game it was originally supposed to be? Can you point to any kickstarter-features that were once in the game and not there anymore?

And I don't think "sandbox" for example would count here as the game was once 100% sandbox just because all the other elements were missing. Now with everything included "sandbox" is just a much smaller part of the whole game.

How any times have we been told that the overhauling of progression, perks and weapons were done. A18 then A20. Now its happening again. Changes made to the game for casuals, the direction to focus on under 40 hour players and now they remove jars etc to draw out early game survival. 

Where is there an overhaul of progression, perks and weapons? The crafting system is getting overhauled.

No weapons are changed, progression is the same like A20. And apart from a few changes of bonuses in specific perks to accomodate the new crafting system the perk system is as it was.

If changing the bonuses of some perks is an overhaul then I can promise you many many more overhauls happening even in beta.

In other words, do you really think they promised not to "overhaul" single perks anymore?

It sounds like its gone of course several times to me just by being here and seeing the talk around every Alpha. 

He doesnt necessary have to be concerned about his economic situation to complain about the direction.

But lets say he is. If these changes were SO great then he should prosper. He should flourish. He should be soaked in riches because these updates are so amazing to the game. But your very explanation of his concerns all but confirms that if his economic situation changes then it is due to the fact these changes are NOT overwhelmingly popular among the community and will have a ripple effect on his role as a 7 days streamer.

If you watched the video he tells you. He has been playing since Alpha 7.

 

[Matt115]

Ok. But you're making up your own lore here... the devs have never confirmed any specific lore on purpose, they wanted each player to make up their own story in their minds. On the other hand, since there's no "official lore" of what really happened or how many years ago, you can't assume anything. You could be right or you could be wrong.

Well but we get "old" models of guns - if you checked similiar games from this period guns will be similiar - shotgun looks like RE4 first shotgun, MP5 could be even in resident evil, sniper rifle was even similiar to RE5 sniper rifle. So you can cleary see that was typical "modern horror game" weapon set.  Most building in 7DTD still have electricity , so...  military/civilians guns should be still in good condition. it's not Mad Max when everything is rusted or Horizon where people don't know many thing ( no spoilers that's why i don't talk more about that).  looking on buidling we can say this +- this same period like TLOU

Based on what evidence?  How much is “a lot”? I said making cuts is a normal part of the editing process and you said it is a sign of disaster. I asked for some evidence and you listed several games that you could not possibly have compared the pre-edited versions to the final product. Now you say again that making a lot of cuts is an industry known sign that the game has problems. Evidence?  
 

As for horror, you are saying that the style of the guns is what makes or breaks this as a true horror experience for you?  Because the guns look more stylistically like mad max it makes it impossible for you to think of the game as horror?  I don’t think like that. My definitions of what qualifies as horror seem to be very different than yours. In my opinion, if any random person watched gameplay of 7 Days to Die they would think it pretty gruesome and horror themed. I’m betting there are parents that play this game out of sight of their younger children because the violence and horror elements are deemed to be too much. 
 

Horror is probably in the eye of the Beholder….heheh

How much is a lot? well that's hard to say. Everything depends on each year - now it's much games in production that in 2013 right? Cut some things or small - yes. But big or a lot of them is bad sigh. 

Ok i will put you evidence but you have to use google translate 

Dl2 

Dying Light 2: chaos produkcyjny i fatalne kierownictwo. Tak wyglada praca w Techland? | Antyweb

Notes: most reviews i read says that DL1 was better - so this can be reason why DL2 is weaker game that dl1

Aliens colonial marine :

8:30 well only halve of this video is in polish. 

 

[Matt115]

As for horror, you are saying that the style of the guns is what makes or breaks this as a true horror experience for you?  Because the guns look more stylistically like mad max it makes it impossible for you to think of the game as horror?  I don’t think like that. My definitions of what qualifies as horror seem to be very different than yours. In my opinion, if any random person watched gameplay of 7 Days to Die they would think it pretty gruesome and horror themed. I’m betting there are parents that play this game out of sight of their younger children because the violence and horror elements are deemed to be too much. 
 

Horror is probably in the eye of the Beholder….heheh

Yes this break experience. Guns are parts of game world right? that's why in RE you have so big describitions , details etc.  For example : In RE4 you can buy RED9 - this looks like real life gun C96 - well this guns looks very unsual but it's very logical why it's added  in short: - game take place in Spain. C96 was a symbol during hispanic Civil war.  Well this is interesting detail in my opinon. 

But then we have cod - yes this is not horror game but... japanish soldiers using stg44 looks like cheap B - movie. 

So yes guns are elements of world building too - if you asked me to advice about guns  because you are making WW2 horror i would you ask - which year and where will take place. 

In the suffering there is a lot TNT because there were mines under prison, in bioshock  you have Great depresion style guns - thompson,  shotgun etc.

In cryostasis You have ww2 soviet guns because this is prison ship from 68 so guns were used from war because there is no need to use AK47 because prison guard are rear troops. 

Dead fall adventure take place before WW2 so you have  pre ww2/early stage ww2 guns - thompson, mp 38 , suomi etc. and this is just AA game in Indiana Jones style. 

Random person - you mean totaly random person or random player? because random player will say just say - typical sandbox game with zombie like dayz.

Why? pretty grusome and horror themed  game is The Forest and a lot of people know this game - nude cannibals, eating human flesh, using body parts as warning, deformed mutants babies, children experiments even mutated kid as final boss. This is pretty edgy - 7dtd is much much "casual" that this game.

If someone would saw - dayz , 7dtd, the forest,  no more room in hell2 , days gone , nazi zombie army , f.e.a.r , dead space , dead island and l4d2 , cod zombies , contagin  and put in in 3 gore category this would looks probably like:

High gore : the forest, NZA , fear, DS, DI, l4d2

medium gore : days gone , cod zombies

low gore ayz , 7dtd, contagion 

Well -  you know -this depends on parents - some of them will do as you say some of them will be facepalming because something looks bad. I remember my friend grandpa who saw that my friend was watching horror movie and he was so frustrated because german soldiers were using AK47. Btw in my country there is company similiar to lego making WW2 sets for kids and this set are very realistic - you can read technical inforamtion about guns , vehicles, when it was produced, very detailed unifroms of soldiers etc. So in theory bricks for 8 yo kid are more  historical accuracy that  70$ COD.

Btw. one of polish school reading : Janko muzyka (jack the musician) - there is boy. He almost die during birth. He is often beaten in school. When he have 10 years old he take violins for someone he is is send to court and after that he get so hard spanking that he died. And this  was obligatory book in primary school.  So maybe i just have "lower sensity" of gore because books like this was just "normal book",  just like impaled someone or boiled alive.

Details mean a lot in games not only guns - for example - TLOUS you can find "warhammer like" minifigures. In dreadout 2 you can find stalls with bootlegs books popular in indoneshia, in fatal frame you have tons of small details connected with japanish culture. And this is soo good.  So why i stick so much about guns models? Because :

1. smaller things are hard to spot, 

2. you see guns often

3.  well weapons are important things in such games - i think nobody check flashlight or wrench. 

 

[BFT2020]

You say this and then go on a long rant of excuses as to why the game is still the way it is after nearly 10 years and use the "development" changes as a reason behind it.

It seems like you only want the term "development" to be used whenever it fits your point of view.

If this game was only released ~2 years ago then you would have a point. But it's been out for nearly 10 years with several constant major changes to the core game itself from each version and eventually people get to the point of "I'll believe it when I see it but I don't have much faith". Because that's whats been offered and that's on TFP themselves.  This last release has some good aspects in the game no doubt. But it also has alot of bad points as well. Some of the issues are still there from A17 bug reports that haven't been addressed. Hell, look at the new folder structure BS (which is a big issue). All of this points to the game declining. So why should I think A21 is going to be any different than it was from A17 to A18, or A18-19, or A19 to 20 when they haven't given me any reason to believe it will? Because its "new" and going "gold"? GTFO.

First off, let me address something right away.  GTFO sums up your attitude right away.  If someone doesn't agree with you, there opinion is worthless, they are treated to insults by you.  Noticed I just gave my opinion, and I never insulted the creator of the youtube video.  I just voiced my opinion that was different than his.

Second, what is video game development?  I think this definition is great

Video game development is the process of developing a video game

No where in the description of the video game development is a specific timeframe or that the development has to be a straight line from point A to point B.  Nowhere in the description of game development does it talk about everything working perfectly out of the box or that anything added in the first Alpha has to remain in the last Alpha.  Even in AAA games we know that content was removed during the development of the game (in some cases, modders brought back the cut content).  I have not redefined what game development is, just using the basic understanding of what game development is.  Some developers develop a game quickly, some take longer than others.  Some developers have an easy game to develop or can based it on past work so the work load is much easier for them, some are starting from scratch doing something that hasn't been done before.  Some developers have 100s/ 1000s of qualified staff to work on it from the very beginning, some are just starting from scratch and adding talent as they go along.  Some developers wouldn't pre-release a game until it was around A20/21 (using 7D2D as an example) while others will never release the game until it goes to Beta or production.

Third, nothing I posted in my opinion was a long rant of excuses.  It was a well thought out post on why things change and what are the various reasons behind those changes.  Just because you don't agree with what I said doesn't make what I wrote a rant or a post filled with excuses.  Sometimes it pays to look at the other side, and understand that we don't know all of the internal discussions or plans.

 

[Matt115]

First off, let me address something right away.  GTFO sums up your attitude right away.  If someone doesn't agree with you, there opinion is worthless, they are treated to insults by you.  Noticed I just gave my opinion, and I never insulted the creator of the youtube video.  I just voiced my opinion that was different than his.

Second, what is video game development?  I think this definition is great

Video game development is the process of developing a video game

No where in the description of the video game development is a specific timeframe or that the development has to be a straight line from point A to point B.  Nowhere in the description of game development does it talk about everything working perfectly out of the box or that anything added in the first Alpha has to remain in the last Alpha.  Even in AAA games we know that content was removed during the development of the game (in some cases, modders brought back the cut content).  I have not redefined what game development is, just using the basic understanding of what game development is.  Some developers develop a game quickly, some take longer than others.  Some developers have an easy game to develop or can based it on past work so the work load is much easier for them, some are starting from scratch doing something that hasn't been done before.  Some developers have 100s/ 1000s of qualified staff to work on it from the very beginning, some are just starting from scratch and adding talent as they go along.  Some developers wouldn't pre-release a game until it was around A20/21 (using 7D2D as an example) while others will never release the game until it goes to Beta or production.

Third, nothing I posted in my opinion was a long rant of excuses.  It was a well thought out post on why things change and what are the various reasons behind those changes.  Just because you don't agree with what I said doesn't make what I wrote a rant or a post filled with excuses.  Sometimes it pays to look at the other side, and understand that we don't know all of the internal discussions or plans.

I agree about that.  Except that can be based it can be easier. Not always this is true - let's say we have game X , you do too much similiar to X ? people will complain about lack of new things ( tomb rider, Assasin creed, SH) too much new things - people will complain that this is game is too diffrent ( heroes of might and magic 4, Ac origins, few castlevania games)

 

[KhaineGB]

Can we agree that the feature list of kickstarter is the game it was originally supposed to be? Can you point to any kickstarter-features that were once in the game and not there anymore?

The interchangeable clothes system if they ditch what they currently have (which has been mentioned) in favour of the "sets" and only 4 slots. Because then we wouldn't have clothing slots.

Yes, i'm a smart arse

 

[youcantgetridofme]

He served the truth straight up. Some people really don't like the truth being told bluntly. He painted the picture pretty lightly too as there's a lot more that could have been said to point out the shortcomings of 7DTD, but it's enough information to get a clear picture of how things have been going with the game's development. Truths were told. Agreed.

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

For almost 10 years there have always been short-sighted people predicting the crash and burn collapse of this game and the end of TFP. 
 

They have been wrong, they are wrong, and they will be wrong. The server issues are simply due to the necessary cross-platform infrastructure changes for the future of this game. Playing a game that is still in development is going to mean there will be periods of time where some things don’t work. 
 

If players of large MP servers love the game as much as they claim then they will be back when everything is done and running well again. That is what I see time and time again— people who for one reason or another had to shelve the game for a year or more due to development issues come back and absolutely love playing again when those issues end. Every alpha release has been bigger than the previous ones precisely because this game draws people back in addition to attracting new. 
 

Sure, some become disenfranchised because they don’t like design decisions or just finally grow bored (like with ANY video game) but the actual measurable evidence overall is that of growth. 
 

TFP is in a very good place. They are finishing up this game and have started preliminary work on two new games as well as on bringing the full version of this game to consoles with cross platform compatibility to PC servers. And, most importantly, they are doing all of this without over extending themselves as a company. 
 

The same people who rage that TFP is taking so long because they are lost would rage that TFP is rushing the game because they’re surely about bankrupt if TFP finished up the game more quickly.  These people always see the worst possible scenario and present it as the facts.

The only thing i wanna is when are we gonna get the dang bandits that have been promised for what feels like 4 alphas now XD

 

[Roland]

The only thing i wanna is when are we gonna get the dang bandits that have been promised for what feels like 4 alphas now XD

We have tips now on the game loading screen, but back in Alpha 8 we had a loading screen that said, "Bandits coming soon" 

4 alphas...? lmao...

When they finally get here, it will have been a long time coming.

 

[Jost Amman]

He served the truth straight up.

Maybe HIS truth. No offense, but again, that is the perspective of someone who's not inside TFP dev studio and like everyone else they don't see the meetings, discussions, and the huge amount of work that has been (and is) done on this game.

Some people are simply not cut for Early Access (should have been called In Development, IMO), because they're impatient and easily scared and always think the worst. The problem is that some "bad apples" who abused the EA format by really scamming their customer base, have ruined the entire basket, and that's why many players are ready to bash the devs whenever there's even the faint hint of something they don't understand.

 

[youcantgetridofme]

Maybe HIS truth. No offense, but again, that is the perspective of someone who's not inside TFP dev studio and like everyone else they don't see the meetings, discussions, and the huge amount of work that has been (and is) done on this game.

Some people are simply not cut for Early Access (should have been called In Development, IMO), because they're impatient and easily scared and always think the worst. The problem is that some "bad apples" who abused the EA format by really scamming their customer base, have ruined the entire basket, and that's why many players are ready to bash the devs whenever there's even the faint hint of something they don't understand.

Blah blah blah. You spout the same defence of the game and company all the time while dismissing truth as bad apples. You do the same thing over on Steam. it is you who is the bad apple, defending things that are rubbish and nonsensical excuses made by The Fun Pimps. They do no wrong in your eyes. Why? You're a fanatic. This is why we can't have nice things in a respectable time frame anymore. People like you support bad business.