Crater Creator
Community Moderator
That'd be hilarious.
TFP: Here are your bandits!
TFP: *replaces zombie grunts with Trader Rekt voice lines*
TFP: *makes no other changes*
PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow
- Thread starter meilodasreh
- Start date
That'd be hilarious.
TFP: Here are your bandits!
TFP: *replaces zombie grunts with Trader Rekt voice lines*
TFP: *makes no other changes*
Even the most intelligent bandit can NOT spam sticks of TNT if he only has one stick of TNT.
Just because 20 years ago a game messed up their enemy AI and made them able to headshot players from any distance that urban legend is brought up as if it was inevitable. "intelligent" bandit does not mean they will automatically be invincible. Einstein with an AK probably would still have been a push-over.
Bandits can be balanced whatever their AI abilities are. Even if they get the ability to loot player storage chests there are hundreds of possibilities to balance that and hundreds of possibilities for the player to make his storage chests safe.
Roland
Moderator
Our future debates will almost certainly revolve around which of those hundreds of possibilities are cheesy and which are legit...
Our future debates will almost certainly revolve around which of those hundreds of possibilities are cheesy and which are legit...
and whether the developers should devote time to fixing them or not. Spawning further comments by people that the game is x years in development and should be finished ASAP. Cue in others protesting that they want the game to stay in alpha for all eternity.
And somewhere in there Matt115 will be telling us about some game that did it differently.
Zombie AI is already not bad in comparison to the AI in DayZ. DayZ Zombies are dangerous, because they are very fast. And the melee combat system of DayZ is a disaster. And DayZ Zombies can chase you forever. If they can track you. I saw Zombies running dozens of times around a fence, then jumping over the fence - while about one virtual metre away there was an wide open gate. You can kill DayZ Zombies easily while they lurk near an open window. They just don't react when you hit them. I never saw such AI flaws in 7DtD (at least not in A20, I didn't play the earlier Alpha versions).Even the most intelligent bandit can NOT spam sticks of TNT if he only has one stick of TNT.
Just because 20 years ago a game messed up their enemy AI and made them able to headshot players from any distance that urban legend is brought up as if it was inevitable. "intelligent" bandit does not mean they will automatically be invincible. Einstein with an AK probably would still have been a push-over.
Bandits can be balanced whatever their AI abilities are. Even if they get the ability to loot player storage chests there are hundreds of possibilities to balance that and hundreds of possibilities for the player to make his storage chests safe.
There seem to be even complaints that the Alpha 20 AI is too good.
But hopefully you don't dumb the Zombie AI down. So far it is ok.
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Well ... you normally don't cuss quietly. Noise attracts Zombies. So things could go wrong for the bandits, not for the player.
meilodasreh
New member
I would even like to see every single bandit completely lootable, with an inventory just like the player's...or at least their clothing/armor + weapons.
Never really liked the idea of this "POOF-KA-CHING: glary lootbag appearing from another dimension" thingy.
Always seemed like a placeholder for me (which is okay, cause it's an alpha version)
If you ask me, with introduction of bandits, Zeds shouldn't drop anything anymore,
and instead I want to be able to take all stuff that bandits carry/wear.
...you know...they just wouldn't need it anymore then
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bdubyah
Well-known member
I could see them dropping their weapon if the only ammo you get from it is what's in the mag. The problem is right now you find too much ammo everywhere. Clean out a dozen piles of garbage and you have enough ammo for the day. It's crazy. It would be too OP for them to drop guns with how much ammo is around currently. Ammo needs to be one of those things you can only find decent quantities of from high end POIs and enemies. The rest would need to be crafted. If you are smart and use melee in your day to day tasks and save guns for only when needed, ammo is way too easy.
I do agree they need some unique loot though, even if they don't drop their weapons. Finding 5 door knobs on them would be the worst. (looking at you, zpack...)
I do agree they need some unique loot though, even if they don't drop their weapons. Finding 5 door knobs on them would be the worst. (looking at you, zpack...)
meilodasreh
New member
Getting too many weapons too early from looting bandits wouldn't be such a problem, or could be avoided by
-making weapons degrading/break faster
-reverting to "weapon parts needed to repair a weapon of that type" (which was the case once iirc)
So you would have to scrap a lot of guns to keep your best one in good shape...feels logic to me.
-and of course early on they may/should be a challenge to deal with, so you wouldn't be able to just go out there and kill them...I mean...they have a gun, and you have...a stick. So you would have to consider if you take the chance or better avoid him.
Ammo balance is always a tricky one, so I would go with the idea that at least the early "low level" bandits only have half broken guns with just the ammo inside the mag.
Later/higher tier bandits could have better guns in better shape and more ammo with them...again sounds logic, doesn't it?
-making weapons degrading/break faster
-reverting to "weapon parts needed to repair a weapon of that type" (which was the case once iirc)
So you would have to scrap a lot of guns to keep your best one in good shape...feels logic to me.
-and of course early on they may/should be a challenge to deal with, so you wouldn't be able to just go out there and kill them...I mean...they have a gun, and you have...a stick. So you would have to consider if you take the chance or better avoid him.
Ammo balance is always a tricky one, so I would go with the idea that at least the early "low level" bandits only have half broken guns with just the ammo inside the mag.
Later/higher tier bandits could have better guns in better shape and more ammo with them...again sounds logic, doesn't it?
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Guppycur
Well-known member
Well if bullets actually were a challenge to get, AND if they were actually effective as they should be, then they'd always (rightfully) be the pinnacle of loot and something you always strived for.
... unfortunately I can perk up in knuckles and punch my way through the challenges.
... unfortunately I can perk up in knuckles and punch my way through the challenges.
Matt115
New member
1. i mean people have stupid idea.
2. Well he could have short circuit in this time and blame game about that.
Matt115
New member
It is not urban legend - THEY HUNGRY cop zombie ( pistol zombie), sniper elite (at least 1 2 3 4 ) even smg soldiers, so this situation sometime happens. Well if this would give them ability too loot only probablity would be making traps + turrets. So nah thanks - cod pentagon thief, nioh goblins are annoing enough. So that's why the simple solutions are the best xdEven the most intelligent bandit can NOT spam sticks of TNT if he only has one stick of TNT.
Just because 20 years ago a game messed up their enemy AI and made them able to headshot players from any distance that urban legend is brought up as if it was inevitable. "intelligent" bandit does not mean they will automatically be invincible. Einstein with an AK probably would still have been a push-over.
Bandits can be balanced whatever their AI abilities are. Even if they get the ability to loot player storage chests there are hundreds of possibilities to balance that and hundreds of possibilities for the player to make his storage chests safe.
Matt115
New member
Okay maybe i'm too negative about that. Just i see how techland "fixed" DL1 problems in "DL2" i'm more disapointed that i expected. So if something is not broken don't fixed. Now 7dtd is good game. Bandits were promised in kickstarter so - ok i understand so i don't complain that Devs will add them. I just don't want 7dtd became another " it was fun game but one change make this game more frustrating that funny".and whether the developers should devote time to fixing them or not. Spawning further comments by people that the game is x years in development and should be finished ASAP. Cue in others protesting that they want the game to stay in alpha for all eternity.
And somewhere in there Matt115 will be telling us about some game that did it differently.
At least i'm doing something diffrent that just complaining. At least better to do against something if you think that is bad idea that do nothing and writing " this game sucks!!!!" like some people doing
Is "THEY HUNGRY cop zombie" refering to the cop in 7D2D? Since his damage is small he can hit 100% and it doesn't matter
Sniper Elite is a "stealthing sniping" game (or whatever else you want to call that genre), in that genre you are supposed to be as good as dead if you are detected. So I assume this isn't a balance/AI problem but fully intentional.
The urban legend is about a game where they made the AI **unintentionally** too good at shooting
I don't think that is a problem at all. Just give bandits the same weapons you are supposed to find in loot anyway. Since we have pipe weapons now they could even turn up in the first few days.
I don't think bandits will appear in a similar frequency than zombies. This is a zombie survival game, bandits will be the exception.
Jost Amman
Well-known member
What interests me most about bandits is how Stealth will be implemented.
- How successful will we be at hiding from bandits and (eventually) ambushing them?
- Will bandits also use stealth? That would be also interesting since it would add an entirely new layer of danger to them.
- If n.2 will be implemented, will bandits be able to hide from zombies avoiding conflict?
Regarding bandit stealth I see two solutions: Thief-like stealth. I doubt this can be realized by the AI since human player movements are rather unpredictable. The other option would be Predator-like stealth: bandits become invisible for a short period of time. Interesting....
Or they just spawn behind the player. Then we have enemy spawning like in Doom 3? Please no!
Stealth for players? Apart from just critical hits? I don't see the environment for this. At least not in the outside areas. I reckon that this could work for indoor patrols. But is it possible to create patrol routes on random maps?
Before things get way too complicated (and buggy), please let bandits just be 'Zombies with guns'.
Or they just spawn behind the player. Then we have enemy spawning like in Doom 3? Please no!
Stealth for players? Apart from just critical hits? I don't see the environment for this. At least not in the outside areas. I reckon that this could work for indoor patrols. But is it possible to create patrol routes on random maps?
Before things get way too complicated (and buggy), please let bandits just be 'Zombies with guns'.
Telly G
New member
I for one hope that the Pimps don't get bogged down in spending hundreds if not thousands of dev hours trying to clamp down on niche base designs only youtubers really utilize. Again.
It's a pointless arms race that the players will always quickly figure out a way around and they keep doing it since like version 14 onwards. The very nature of the game being a highly configurable building game allows for some ridiculous base designs.
Personally I think that the answer would be more types of boss and miniboss zombies (vomit cops and spiders count as minibosses in this metric). Get wild with it to actually keep us on our toes rather than endlessly tweaking pathing. I have more than a few ideas...
It's a pointless arms race that the players will always quickly figure out a way around and they keep doing it since like version 14 onwards. The very nature of the game being a highly configurable building game allows for some ridiculous base designs.
Personally I think that the answer would be more types of boss and miniboss zombies (vomit cops and spiders count as minibosses in this metric). Get wild with it to actually keep us on our toes rather than endlessly tweaking pathing. I have more than a few ideas...
- Make the giant vultures that show up during horde be able to grab you and if you don't take it out, lift you up to carry you up. If you don't kill them they'll cause more problems like summon more vultures or drop zombies on top of your base, including boss types. In fact, I'd prefer them to favor the boss zombies to make them a real persistent threat during the blood moon than little more than an annoyance.
- (boss) A slow-moving high-health 'infiltrator' type that will walk normally until it gets close enough to activate it's ability and go through your defenses, entering your base.
- (boss) An EMP zombie that turns off electrical devices in an AOE for X amount of time. Deactivates switches, turns off generators, so on. Can shock you if you're too close when it uses it's ability.
- (miniboss) A zombie covered/impaled in metal spikes that is more hard to defeat with melee but has a very weak exposed head. Chance to get bleeding when striking it, higher bleed chance when it strikes you.
- (miniboss) Extremely heavily armored zombie that is more hard to defeat with ranged but has very weak exposed head. think bomb suit with missing/damaged helmet
- (miniboss) Highly Infectious zombie that is all but guaranteed to do lots of infection damage to you if you let it attack you. Give you real reason to stockpile all of that medicine.
- (miniboss) Zombie bandits. They are clutching onto the weapon they had in life, or it's at least tied to their hand, which they use to club you with. Slightly longer melee reach than other zombies.
I'm sure I can think of more that can work for 7dtd but I dont want to make this too long.
stallionsden
Tester
Not how you are thinking lol
I know many non youtubers, streamers whom use them so it aren't just streamers that use these.