PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary
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Kandrathe
New member
A lifetime ago... I built educational software simulations in ML(animation subs) and C++. I mostly built biomes filled with wildlife with primal AI (thirsty, hungry, sleepy, defending). Managing the threading priorities (what is noticeable) in the event manager is key, along with giving the entities faster options (e.g. less accurate approximations, or delaying an action) when the number of active entities gets too high, or FPS for example drops.
So, in this game, I would imagine a scenario, like 100 zombies getting hit by a concussion grenade and falling down. If they all try to follow the exact same AI script to get up all at the same time, not only would it break realism, it would over tax event handling. My desire would be to have them recover at variable rates and "decide" to act when it is in the best interest of making the simulation realistic, within the constraint of the capability of event management ( some number of entities would choose to delay acting for the benefit of the others). But, they also need to be smart enough to not be random, in that they delayed an action rather than skip it.
This game compounds what I dealt with in my simulation problems in a number of ways. I never had to deal with the structural integrity and physics of every object in the world. I didn't have to load/unload regions of the map (in effect freezing time while unloaded and possibly reacting to changes when unfrozen), and I never had the issues of multiple players driving at high speed in vehicles through the world changing the decisions of hundreds of AI entities and physical objects.
So I would just say in sum, good job to the developers who are working on this software and I'm looking forward to seeing how you resolve the issues. Probably most people would not understand the challenges that need to be resolved or the vast number of compromises that need to be made for performance.
So, in this game, I would imagine a scenario, like 100 zombies getting hit by a concussion grenade and falling down. If they all try to follow the exact same AI script to get up all at the same time, not only would it break realism, it would over tax event handling. My desire would be to have them recover at variable rates and "decide" to act when it is in the best interest of making the simulation realistic, within the constraint of the capability of event management ( some number of entities would choose to delay acting for the benefit of the others). But, they also need to be smart enough to not be random, in that they delayed an action rather than skip it.
This game compounds what I dealt with in my simulation problems in a number of ways. I never had to deal with the structural integrity and physics of every object in the world. I didn't have to load/unload regions of the map (in effect freezing time while unloaded and possibly reacting to changes when unfrozen), and I never had the issues of multiple players driving at high speed in vehicles through the world changing the decisions of hundreds of AI entities and physical objects.
So I would just say in sum, good job to the developers who are working on this software and I'm looking forward to seeing how you resolve the issues. Probably most people would not understand the challenges that need to be resolved or the vast number of compromises that need to be made for performance.
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
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beerfly
Colony Rounder
Fixed for you
Btw, @faatal, or you Gazz, are you going to improve the point of view transition, of when we change vehicle steering mode between mouse to keyboard and vice versa, with the left mouse button.
Sometimes it changes a bit of the angle and is comfortable to continue, but sometimes it is like I am looking from a selfie stick point of view instantly, and a world class of slalom happens. Not a big deal, just wonder about it.
Great job so far boys, keep kicking butts.
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
I thought zombies were supposed to dig in A19, but I built a "trap base" near bedrock with a long ramp going down to me, and they didn't show up on BM.
I guess there's a limit on how far pathing can reach out?
out:
@faatal : could you check this for A20 and see if it's possible to have them path to you from 60-100 blocks away? (at least during the Blood Moon!) :yo:
I guess there's a limit on how far pathing can reach out?
out: @faatal : could you check this for A20 and see if it's possible to have them path to you from 60-100 blocks away? (at least during the Blood Moon!) :yo:
Is this exclusive to the drone or can the sledge and turret also have this attached? I've been hoping for the ability to hook a light up to the turret basically since I originally got it. They don't support the weapon flashlight mod.
faatal
Fun Pimps Staff
None of that has been done yet, so it remains to be seen how it will work.Wow! Alpha-20 looks good so far. I'm looking forward to seeing all the coming details.
First day back to the forum.
I was reading where crawlers can now crawl thought one meter holes. I hope that means that players once again have the ability to go through one meter openings.
faatal
Fun Pimps Staff
The pathing distance limit is horizontal. They can only path about 40m out. Farther and they just go in a straight line to the edge of the path grid.I thought zombies were supposed to dig in A19, but I built a "trap base" near bedrock with a long ramp going down to me, and they didn't show up on BM.
I guess there's a limit on how far pathing can reach out?
@faatal : could you check this for A20 and see if it's possible to have them path to you from 60-100 blocks away? (at least during the Blood Moon!) :yo:
I dug to bedrock in Navezgane and BM day 7 spawns came above me and started digging down. They do a lot of moving and stumbling in addition to digging, so it can take them a while if you don't have a ton of zombies.
That is code, so would be me, but doubt it will change anytime soon. I tend to forget that is even a feature.Fixed for you
Btw, @faatal, or you Gazz, are you going to improve the point of view transition, of when we change vehicle steering mode between mouse to keyboard and vice versa, with the left mouse button.
Sometimes it changes a bit of the angle and is comfortable to continue, but sometimes it is like I am looking from a selfie stick point of view instantly, and a world class of slalom happens. Not a big deal, just wonder about it.
Great job so far boys, keep kicking butts.
Jost Amman
Well-known member
Thanks for the reply @faatal but, honestly, this explains only part of why the zombies didn't find me during horde night.The pathing distance limit is horizontal. They can only path about 40m out. Farther and they just go in a straight line to the edge of the path grid.I thought zombies were supposed to dig in A19, but I built a "trap base" near bedrock with a long ramp going down to me, and they didn't show up on BM.
I guess there's a limit on how far pathing can reach out?
@faatal : could you check this for A20 and see if it's possible to have them path to you from 60-100 blocks away? (at least during the Blood Moon!) :yo:
I dug to bedrock in Navezgane and BM day 7 spawns came above me and started digging down. They do a lot of moving and stumbling in addition to digging, so it can take them a while if you don't have a ton of zombies.
This is what I did: before my first BM I created a slanted tunnel going down at 45° for (admittedly) longer than I had expected, surely more than 40 blocks horizontally. It's a wide entrance since it's 3x2 all the way down. I dug it like that so that the zombies would easily fit in, but as you confirmed, they didn't come. Next day I found some of them tunneling down in a nearby POI but apparently quite far from my horizontal position that night (no idea why).
So after that utter failure on my part I decided to use the old "pit trap" design. So I dug a completely vertical 3x3 tunnel down to the end of the 45° ramp. So, my latest design has 2 points of entry: the first through the ramp and the second (vertically) from the "skylight" with a ladder all the way up.
Well, next BM night, even after this last change, I stood right at the center of the vertical pit with no obstacle above me, but the zombies still didn't come. Not even one fell down or tried to use the ladder to reach me (there's a gap of a few blocks at the end). Next day I went up and checked the ground near my pit and found no evidence of any digging! Is this what you'd expect? Just trying to help. I'm sniffing some erratic behavior or hard "limit" on the AI part... Thank you!
Outlaw_187
Active member
Looking forward to the stream later. I'll probably catch it on YouTube as I'm stuck working over on Thanksgiving. F you corona virus!
Anyway, is it intended that we can't buy gas from the traders?
I know it's easy enough to make/harvest, but so are many other things that you can buy.
Just noticed this & thought it was weird.
Maybe in A20 where traders specialize in certain goods?
I'm excited for the seeds as I don't recall ever seeing them for sale either.
Anyway, is it intended that we can't buy gas from the traders?
I know it's easy enough to make/harvest, but so are many other things that you can buy.
Just noticed this & thought it was weird.
Maybe in A20 where traders specialize in certain goods?
I'm excited for the seeds as I don't recall ever seeing them for sale either.
Blake_
Captain Obvious
For those who don't want to check the 2 hour stream, these were the highlights:
-The current internal version of A20 is b51.
-Random Gen is going to be better than ever, with better district distribution in cities, better performance and more and more deterministic procedural landscapes. It will be similar to Nitrogen in many ways, with some new options too.
- New map sizes for RWG will be : Same as Navezgane (6k X 6k), 8K and 10K. 4k will be out of the game due to it being too small. They are aiming at 1minute of generation time per square km, so a 10k map shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to create. Bigger sizes than 10k result in issues, so they are not in yet. Kinyajuu didn't discard bigger than 10k sizes for the future, he just said that they need polishing, so maybe in the future we will see bigger sizes. That's what she said.
-Deterministic procedural landscapes will result in more landscape features and maybe some mountains having secret pathways, ponds, loot sites and also :
-Rivers WILL make it to RWG eventually. There is a high chance of them being in a20.
-More POIs (they show a couple of new ones in the video).
-Burnt forest is going to be combined with the Wasteland biome into a big "art set" in a similar theme than the previous pine forest/normal forest merge, adding beefier gameplay with seamless merged burnt/radiated areas. TheFunPimp argues that the impact of this change will hopefully result in MORE variety due to the granular design approach of the RWG and also better gameplay overall (less repetition, more good stuff, better weather handling and straightforward progression). This is still a WIP.
-A little talk about radiation zones and radiation suits. Basically the same mechanic as in Fallout 3,4 and NV, with poisoning, dedicated medicine and danger zones.
-Pipe weapons will be revealed when they are gameplay worthy. They are WIP at the moment.
-Biomes, Pois, items, gamestage, effects and the survival aspect of the game will get many improvements, like biome progression improvementes (for example higher gamestage in POIs for Snow biome, highest for Wasteland POIs).
-A little talk about quests. Quests are as per the OP (quest listing so you can pick any of the 5 tiers when you unlock them and also the new Generator quest). They are still ironing out some stuff like "quest bonuses for doing it at night". Nothing is set in stone for that last one.
-VEHICLE MODS. Paint is in. There are currently 10 mods for vehicles in a20. No talks about what they do yet. They are also WIP at the moment.
-Characters and Armor Sets are also currently a WIP.
That's mostly it. A big hug to everyone.
-The current internal version of A20 is b51.
-Random Gen is going to be better than ever, with better district distribution in cities, better performance and more and more deterministic procedural landscapes. It will be similar to Nitrogen in many ways, with some new options too.
- New map sizes for RWG will be : Same as Navezgane (6k X 6k), 8K and 10K. 4k will be out of the game due to it being too small. They are aiming at 1minute of generation time per square km, so a 10k map shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to create. Bigger sizes than 10k result in issues, so they are not in yet. Kinyajuu didn't discard bigger than 10k sizes for the future, he just said that they need polishing, so maybe in the future we will see bigger sizes. That's what she said.
-Deterministic procedural landscapes will result in more landscape features and maybe some mountains having secret pathways, ponds, loot sites and also :
-Rivers WILL make it to RWG eventually. There is a high chance of them being in a20.
-More POIs (they show a couple of new ones in the video).
-Burnt forest is going to be combined with the Wasteland biome into a big "art set" in a similar theme than the previous pine forest/normal forest merge, adding beefier gameplay with seamless merged burnt/radiated areas. TheFunPimp argues that the impact of this change will hopefully result in MORE variety due to the granular design approach of the RWG and also better gameplay overall (less repetition, more good stuff, better weather handling and straightforward progression). This is still a WIP.
-A little talk about radiation zones and radiation suits. Basically the same mechanic as in Fallout 3,4 and NV, with poisoning, dedicated medicine and danger zones.
-Pipe weapons will be revealed when they are gameplay worthy. They are WIP at the moment.
-Biomes, Pois, items, gamestage, effects and the survival aspect of the game will get many improvements, like biome progression improvementes (for example higher gamestage in POIs for Snow biome, highest for Wasteland POIs).
-A little talk about quests. Quests are as per the OP (quest listing so you can pick any of the 5 tiers when you unlock them and also the new Generator quest). They are still ironing out some stuff like "quest bonuses for doing it at night". Nothing is set in stone for that last one.
-VEHICLE MODS. Paint is in. There are currently 10 mods for vehicles in a20. No talks about what they do yet. They are also WIP at the moment.
-Characters and Armor Sets are also currently a WIP.
That's mostly it. A big hug to everyone.
Games'n'Grumble
Active member
I have to ask - everyone saw this moment on stream, right? What's it? Subscribers often contact me with this problem, and all I can recommend is to enter "pois" command in the console. Can the dev-team (possibly @faatal) explain why imposters do not disappear from the location, disturbing players? In Alpha 19, this is a very common problem. It seems to me that this is a RAM problem, and the swap file helps some people, but not everyone.
Tell us if this problem can be fixed in A19, what is it related to, and whether it will be fixed in A20? Thank you very much.
Tell us if this problem can be fixed in A19, what is it related to, and whether it will be fixed in A20? Thank you very much.
SarkMCPFan
New member
now when you say more Pois.. does it bring higher chances for massive cities and more skyscraper chances? would be awesome! i love exploring and i never see skyscrapers in any world i gen.. (might be unlucky tbh)
FranticDan
Well-known member
I quite love the new model for the AK, makes me curious what other weapons etc got new models ^_^
I think the idea of infestation or defending the trader quests are awesome. Redoing a bunch of quest and adding more are a great idea...
Also I watched the recent video... will yall be adding more animals? I know they talked about redoing them and that is great but I would so love a horse inside of old west towns. I think that would be legit.
And I know yall are taking some zombies out and overhauling the others but can we get a fireman zombie. We have police zombies but we also have fire stations. And with the way the world is in 7dtodie it think the fireman would be pretty awesome.
More vehicles would be great but I understand pushing towards the end and already having a selection that covers most things is ok. But the random vehicles in the game... please something other than the crown victorias everywhere. At first I thought Ford had a dealership in every town lmao.
And thank yall for the game. Some people complain about this or that but I for one think it is going great. Bugs are bugs and I can guarantee you all they will be gone by the time it is gold. And by the way I am pretty sure most people would be willing to purchase DLC. Thank you all
Also I watched the recent video... will yall be adding more animals? I know they talked about redoing them and that is great but I would so love a horse inside of old west towns. I think that would be legit.
And I know yall are taking some zombies out and overhauling the others but can we get a fireman zombie. We have police zombies but we also have fire stations. And with the way the world is in 7dtodie it think the fireman would be pretty awesome.
More vehicles would be great but I understand pushing towards the end and already having a selection that covers most things is ok. But the random vehicles in the game... please something other than the crown victorias everywhere. At first I thought Ford had a dealership in every town lmao.
And thank yall for the game. Some people complain about this or that but I for one think it is going great. Bugs are bugs and I can guarantee you all they will be gone by the time it is gold. And by the way I am pretty sure most people would be willing to purchase DLC. Thank you all
Frontjunky
New member
we have very soft couch or corner sofa, but i want to see me or my friends sitting or laying on it, please implement this! Oh and i wish me a rubber doll....hey i am a lone ranger i have only needs 
MechanicalLens
New member
My only constructive criticism for it is the reload animation. The first half of the reload sequence looks way too slow and methodical imo.FranticDan said:
Yes, and I would love some sofas in the game to break up the monotony of couches.cam2577 said:
In other words, absolutely not. When requesting features, what is one of the first questions that should come to your head? That would be, "is it a sharp stick?".
Skyscrapers are an incredibly rare spawn in RWG as of current. The same goes for standard military bases, if they're still in the RWG prefab spawn list in the first place.SarkMCPFan said:
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