PC Okay soo stone tools are everywhere...whats your opinion on this?

[pApA^LeGBa]

The day 7 horde is over at 23:30. You can do it with arrows tbh. On any structure where they can´t get up to you that is not wood. 

 

[Solomon]

Nope, they are not pure RNG anymore. RNG won't give you some, if you haven't reached a certain gamestage. In A19 (experimental), or are you still playing A18?

People are commenting left and right how its still possible to randomly loot shotguns on your first day.

Also no... well almost no. Since both bloodmoon and weapon drop rates scale with your gamestage, you won't encounter a very hard bloodmoon if you are not able to find weapons by your gamestage. Of course your gamestage may already allow you to find better weapons but you still haven't found some, then keep searching. In this case nothing changed, i'ts still is just RNG from this point.

I don't know what problems people have to need a gun for the first bloodmoon?! In earlier alphas (15, 16) it was just normal that you didn't have any ranged weapons for the first bloodmoon besids a bow and if you are lucky already advanced to iron arrows.

Usually the first bloodmoon is quite easy and can be done almost completely with spikes and not fireing one shot. Especially in A19 since progression was massively made slower. Isn't like the game throws radiateds on the player without him being able to find at least a pistol.

My first bloodmoon horde in A18 on default spawn and difficulty resulted in 3 waves of 16 zombies each wave what demolished us (multiple new player mistakes). Im not sure about how the situation is currently but it seems kinda confirmed that if you dont raise your gamestage fast enough you can only hope for absolute luck to get weapons before the first horde strikes.

The alpha 15, 16 zombies were soo damm stupid you didnt actually needed any kind of guns, the new ones however can actually path to you well enough that if you dont try to come up with actual TD cheese strategies you might just die there.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Solomon A19 is totally different again, wich he is talking about there. Like said above. Your first bloodmoon is over very soon. Easily doable with arrows.

 

[Solomon]

A19 is totally different again, wich he is talking about there. Like said above. Your first bloodmoon is over very soon. Easily doable with arrows.

But hes not talking about how easy the bloodmoon is or not, that one was only brought up by me to illustrate my actual concerns on how the weapon drops tied to gamestage feel unnatural in the gameplay especially when you have forward memories about what to expect.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s fine in A19, you don´t need to skill lucky looter to the max to survive the first two bloodmoons, you don´t even need a gun for day 7. Even the third one doesn´t go on the whole night. Not even in MP.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Im not sure about how the situation is currently but it seems kinda confirmed that if you dont raise your gamestage fast enough you can only hope for absolute luck to get weapons before the first horde strikes.

You obviously don't get it: Raising your gamestage will make the bloodmoon MORE DIFFICULT. If you do not raise your gamestage fast you probably are not able to find firearms early, but the bloodmoon will also be EASIER!

So the problem probably more likely is: People are minmax-raceing their gamestage like no tomorrow, got it high enough shortly before bloodmoon but no time left to also FIND a firearm. Then the bloodmoon will be tougher and you are not yet prepared equally.

People race for firearms because they think bloodmoon is difficult. But the bloodmoon is not difficult, it becomes difficult BECAUSE people are racing for firearms and therefore actively push their gamestage instead of looking for the really important things in the early days.

 

[Solomon]

You obviously don't get it: Raising your gamestage will make the bloodmoon MORE DIFFICULT. If you do not raise your gamestage fast you probably are not able to find firearms early, but the bloodmoon will also be EASIER!

So the problem probably more likely is: People are minmax-raceing their gamestage like no tomorrow, got it high enough shortly before bloodmoon but no time left to also FIND a firearm. Then the bloodmoon will be tougher and you are not yet prepared equally.

People race for firearms because they think bloodmoon is difficult. But the bloodmoon is not difficult, it becomes difficult BECAUSE people are racing for firearms and therefore actively push their gamestage instead of looking for the really important things in the early days.

But arent people raising their gamestage for the sole reason that the stone age deal is hella boring?

Im mean even OP here complained about how he finds the current game boring which leads to people rushing the gamestage just so they can play an actual challanging game but because the gamestage tying is still in place you need to be simultenously lucky enough to get guns fast and manage to get them before bloodmoon comes.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Im mean even OP here complained about how he finds the current game boring which leads to people rushing the gamestage just so they can play an actual challanging game but because the gamestage tying is still in place you need to be simultenously lucky enough to get guns fast and manage to get them before bloodmoon comes.

Hmm, from what i understand people are just lazy. They complain about not wanting to play with stone tools, but thats not really regarded to difficulty. Stone age is basically almost melee, what imho is more challenging then rushing through a POI with firearms. People don't want a challenging game, they want firearms to make it easier. Or they complain about "realism". Not long ago people complained about the game being to fast, it was boring if you find an AK on day 3...

There are many different oppinions. For example i like the early game. I usually quit my games shortly after i got the good weapons. In my last game on day ~40 i had a lvl5 AK, a Lvl3 assault rifle, a lvl6 pistol, a lvl4 marksmans rifle... Yeah i know, there would be even better weapons to come, but that was the point the game started to become boring for me. BTW: I found everything, i haven't crafted a single tool or weapon.

 

[RipClaw]

But arent people raising their gamestage for the sole reason that the stone age deal is hella boring?

It's only boring if the fun for you is just looting POIs and killing zombies.

Im mean even OP here complained about how he finds the current game boring which leads to people rushing the gamestage just so they can play an actual challanging game but because the gamestage tying is still in place you need to be simultenously lucky enough to get guns fast and manage to get them before bloodmoon comes.

Challenging is a subjective term. For example, a gun makes it less challenging for me. I prefer melee combat.

 

[Solomon]

Hmm, from what i understand people are just lazy. They complain about not wanting to play with stone tools, but thats not really regarded to difficulty. Stone age is basically almost melee, what imho is more challenging then rushing through a POI with firearms. People don't want a challenging game, they want firearms to make it easier. Or they complain about "realism". Not long ago people complained about the game being to fast, it was boring if you find an AK on day 3...

There are many different oppinions. For example i like the early game. I usually quit my games shortly after i got the good weapons. In my last game on day ~40 i had a lvl5 AK, a Lvl3 assault rifle, a lvl6 pistol, a lvl4 marksmans rifle... Yeah i know, there would be even better weapons to come, but that was the point the game started to become boring for me. BTW: I found everything, i haven't crafted a single tool or weapon.

Honestly my favorite go to weapon the stun baton and the junk turret (i love this silly thing) they are all i use monstly. The hunting rifle is my ranged screamer removal, the ak is my fallback weapon when im swarmed. I dont really like shotguns or the blunderbuss and as far as melee goes our game is practically limited to various impact weapon what are boring as hell.

Neither of these drop on stone age and there are no interesting weapons for that stage, so for me the only thing to do is to raise the gamestage fast to the point where i actually can find the weapon i like. 

I also like crafting but the current system kinda makes it hard to appreciate it when every and all more advanced weapons need weapon parts. If i could craft each weapon part like the trigger, chamber and all that it would be more natural.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Neither of these drop on stone age and there are no interesting weapons for that stage, so for me the only thing to do is to raise the gamestage fast to the point where i actually can find the weapon i like. 

Like i said, there is no real argument, your only "argument" is "but i don't want to play melee, but i want to play exactly like this".

I also like crafting but the current system kinda makes it hard to appreciate it when every and all more advanced weapons need weapon parts. If i could craft each weapon part like the trigger, chamber and all that it would be more natural.

I don't know what version you are playing, but the different weapon parts you mention have been removed after A16 (or 17?) ages ago. Now there is only one generic "parts" item for each weapon class. The only thing you need for ALL automatic rifles is the single item "automatic rifle parts". It doesn't matter if you want to craft an AK, a aussault rifle or a M60, all of them just require this item to craft them.

I don't know if you now can find just parts for such weapon independently of gamestage, but since you don't find complete weapons early there is also nothing you can scrap to get those parts. But that's the idea of the change: You should not get your preferred equipment too early, because that would just be massively overpowered, you have to play your way to them. And yes, the game forces you to do so. Like the skill system is basically a crippled class system, like e.g. if you want to go for mining, you "have" to use shotguns OR "waste" skillpoints for a dual build. And also investing points for the stone age weapons is a waste, as you probably won't use them anymore once you found other weapons, like e.g i prefer clubs (strength) early game, but later i prefer using the marksmans rifle (perception).

 

[Boidster]

People are commenting left and right how its still possible to randomly loot shotguns on your first day.

You can loot a shotgun by GS12. If you make GS12 on day one, then totally possible. TFP gave all of us the probabilities; we just have to read it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QdvwJZQG8RxbQi-G0fQPx5Kr3pEddBcJK2kYy86OpPk/edit#gid=603484266

 

[Liesel Weppen]

You can loot a shotgun by GS12. If you make GS12 on day one, then totally possible. TFP gave all of us the probabilities; we just have to read it.

Getting to gamestage on day 1 would require to reach level 9 or 10 on day 1... right? (playerlevel + days alive) * 1.2?

Nearly impossible... perhaps for hardcoregrinder and 120 minute days or increased XP gain settings.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QdvwJZQG8RxbQi-G0fQPx5Kr3pEddBcJK2kYy86OpPk/edit#gid=603484266

Nice spreadsheet. It almost exactly reperesents the progress of my last playthrough. I was a little slower, iirc i was gamestage 92 on day 40.

 

[Boidster]

Hey I didn't say it was easy, just providing the actual facts controlling loot. The spreadsheet is the one linked from loot.xml. TFP's own worksheet used to auto-generate the XML loot tables.

 

[Biscoitoso]

Play missions, get some dukes and buy it from the trader. Or just play missions until you gain acess to missions Tier 2-3, missions from these tier have weapons as a reward.

And until you find a fire weapon, use barricades, hatches and 1/2 blocks to fight with zombies.

 

[Bashtiks]

It it is what it is ..

Current loot progression aint fun for me but if I want a gun in first days I do some qusts and buy one from trader ..

Everyone is beating on same one "half alive horse" in multiple forum threads .. its feels like different rwg all over the place but things in them are always the same ..

 

[Laz Man]

Stone age weapons are viable early game.  I would guess people are just use to junking their stone age stuff and getting other weapons sooner.

There is absolutely no gameplay reason why anyone needs to rush past stoneage quickly. (PvE)

It is a immersion/preference concern at best.

 

[Solomon]

Like i said, there is no real argument, your only "argument" is "but i don't want to play melee, but i want to play exactly like this".

Just what part of the stun baton says its not a melee weapon?

I don't know what version you are playing, but the different weapon parts you mention have been removed after A16 (or 17?) ages ago. Now there is only one generic "parts" item for each weapon class. The only thing you need for ALL automatic rifles is the single item "automatic rifle parts". It doesn't matter if you want to craft an AK, a aussault rifle or a M60, all of them just require this item to craft them.

It was a suggestion, i didnt even know there was a system like this back in the days.

I don't know if you now can find just parts for such weapon independently of gamestage, but since you don't find complete weapons early there is also nothing you can scrap to get those parts. But that's the idea of the change: You should not get your preferred equipment too early, because that would just be massively overpowered, you have to play your way to them. And yes, the game forces you to do so. Like the skill system is basically a crippled class system, like e.g. if you want to go for mining, you "have" to use shotguns OR "waste" skillpoints for a dual build. And also investing points for the stone age weapons is a waste, as you probably won't use them anymore once you found other weapons, like e.g i prefer clubs (strength) early game, but later i prefer using the marksmans rifle (perception).

Yeah but the play to get them is the exact problem here.

The stone age chapter is both slow and boring for many, so they do what me and most people who have the same view do and we either console command our gamestage up or play with increased amount of exp gain so you level up fast as hell till you get what you need.

The whole point of the complaints is that the stage sytem is best when its entirely removed but that now comes with a horrible disadvantage because unlike in A18 where the loot is kind of random here in A19 i know exactly what items and on what tier will i get because the stages come with them. 

 

[Solomon]

The new looting what forcefully locks you into specific stages with specific drops really rubs me the wrong way.

The whole idea breaks immersion on multiple points from trying to tell us that the survivors of the apocalypse were cavemen, that they thought stone spears are valuable enough to close them into gun safes and finally that by just waiting enough the contents of these containers magically transform into better equipment (damm alchemists!). The slow startup also doesnt add in any gameplay value its just stretches out the gameplay with grind (F2P game strategy) and adds no content to justify the idea.

I generally think that we have too few items for the stone age or in general for all ages to justify the need of staged loot we have a knife, axe, shovel, hammer, spear, club, the blunderbuss and a bow, thats 8 items in total what even if we only get 1 per container and they never repeat means we have all of them in 8 cantainers.

Sure theres not much of the others too but i think that should change too.

Repeating the title, what is your opinion of this?

 

[Roland]

Your poll is funny and sarcastic which, being me, I can appreciate but it really makes it a terrible poll. Polls should be as neutral as possible and then in your comments in the thread go wild with the snark. Some people won’t participate because of how you slanted all the answer choices...lol

At any rate, we know that greater variety of primitive weapons is coming and they are currently working on loot tables. @Galifrey1965 made a good suggestion in another thread for TFP doing another pass over the loot tables to make the loot containers have more junk appropriate to their setting rather than just all having stone tools. I agree and hope that as TFP continues to work on the loot progression they will make such adjustments.