PC The AI need to evolve in order for this game to survive.

[alanea]

Zombies Technically should not even bother destroying buildings and especially the weak class zombies should not even put a dent into stone or stronger material almost all shows and movies show that.

as i told in previous quote .. with many sources ..  its totally wrong  idea of zombies based on movie /series or two .. overall  half zombies is stupid  slow  harmless ...  and half faster smarter or stronger than human

also gameplay wise if  zombies cannot hurt concrete ... you have immortal blocks  by day  1-3 depending on luck and won game already

The reason why players wanted the option to disable the horde was because the zombies always destroyed their bases. And these are players who prefer to loot rather than gather resources to repair their base each week. That's also the reason why more cheese bases are used since Alpha 17.

In Alpha 15 and Alpha 16, players who didn't want to fight the horde could spend the night in their underground bunker. This is also no longer possible since Alpha 17.

We owe this supersonic vulture to a few players who cried quite hard on the forums a few months ago that if you can ignore the horde, it will destroy their immersion.

I play single player but I know players who play multiplayer. Therefore it is important for me that the game works for both groups of players. I can disable the horde or fast forward the time. Multiplayer players don't have these options unless they are admin.

exactly  zombies destroyed everything  in they way withou pathing around  even if you wasnt inside making  ground floor  basically unusable because you spend a while in mine and return to  10  holes and destroyed chests / workbenches whatever fromr andomly walking horde this was solved by advanced ai .... if  zombies dont detect you they simply walk around  ... if they detect you and you have entrance they can use =  they will walk through it and die ond defenses you set up or bash  door only  then chase you  the only zombie that actually attack something valuable  intentionally is  screamer going after campfire / forge( the thing that pissed her off and spawned her)

so bases outside are possible and safe ....  just because the a17 ai change

for multiplayer ... look game should be fair  those who dislike  hordes can play on server with very weak or disabled hordes ...  those  who  dont  like challenges ,,, should have equal rules why should someone  spend lot of work  into building perfectly defendable base ... and then watch how useless all his work is  when next to him some  noob who seen it on youtube build base flying in air  from wood frames within  5 minutes  thats  100%  impenetrable  thats why such bugs need to be eliminated /limited as far as possible in name of fair play (apart of the fact flying  bases/hordes running in circles make game look like poorly coded/unfinished/bugged trash

 those  problems with ai are definitely worth  looking on .. +  you think it doesnt happen unless you build base for that ? nope it happens even in poi ... where zombies often try to reach you by ways they cant because they dont recognize walkable blocks corectly ... then run confused in circles  .. then dig when you shot them from above .....  nah  ai is flawed everywhere ... those bases just abuse it   .. and its understandable .... keep in mind current ai was created in a 17  ..so like " 1.9 mod ago) they will definitely need to solve lot of ai issues in next few alphas

 

[Zerfall2142]

Play the game the way you want to. It's a game, we play games to have fun or to get some excitement.

Stop complaining about people cheesing mechanics or not playing the way YOU want them to.

(To the OP of the thread: Kim Jong-un just called, he wants advice on how to be a more controlling dictator)

Honestly I'm sick of all the whiners complaining and then TFP running around to appease the snowflakes.

(Side note: I've been playing since A7.8. Anyone remember the days when a solid cobblestone castle became completely obsolete when spider zombies got introduced?)

Once the game got a few years in and people started finding exploits and others whined it became a game of cat and mouse. With creative thinking players being the mouse and snowflakes& TFP being the cat

Fall traps? Nah too OP, TFP plz nerf. So now zombies are supernatural beings that can survive terminal velocity. Leading to cheese wedge moats. (Arguably nerfing realism and leading to less realistic bases)

Zombies took to long destroying a well built base? No problem, give them a hive mind that they all attack the weakest point. (Leading to players finding a way to cheese the patting ai)

Having too much fun building a base? OP, nerf. TFP added in wandering hordes that just happen to have a straight path over your incomplete base

Triple thick wall reinforced concrete? Too OP. TFP: oh now zombie appendages do more damage the more zombies there are. (Honestly why/how can 5 regular zombies break through 3 meters of solid concrete in a few minutes?)

The point I'm getting to is there is a constant race between people finding exploits and snowflakes complaining about them (and then TFP changing core game mechanics to nerf/make people play a certain way.)

Honestly I was happy before sleepers would respawn inside a poi I had just cleared, before a 5 zombie bear train hits my horde base 3 minutes before a blood moon horde starts. I was happy before zombies dug tunnels through straight solid rock into my backup bunker right after my horde base fell. I was happy with my old cobblestone castle that I'd have to defend against multiple breaches.

Now? You almost have to build a exploit base just to survive past your 4th or 5th blood moon horde. Meaning I can't play the game the way that it's fun for me anymore (or in anyway realistic for that matter)

 

[RipClaw]

exactly  zombies destroyed everything  in they way withou pathing around  even if you wasnt inside making  ground floor  basically unusable because you spend a while in mine and return to  10  holes and destroyed chests / workbenches whatever fromr andomly walking horde this was solved by advanced ai .... if  zombies dont detect you they simply walk around  ... if they detect you and you have entrance they can use =  they will walk through it and die ond defenses you set up or bash  door only  then chase you  the only zombie that actually attack something valuable  intentionally is  screamer going after campfire / forge( the thing that pissed her off and spawned her)

so bases outside are possible and safe ....  just because the a17 ai change

With the AI change came also a higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode which is activated if they don't find a way to the player.

The new AI is good but the higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode has caused problems for players who like classic bases where you shoot the zombies from above. And they didn't want to repair their base every week.

I don't mind the new AI. I use the zombies' intelligence for my own purposes by building funnel bases. Therefore my bases usually take only little damage because I don't rely on walls but use traps.
 

for multiplayer ... look game should be fair  those who dislike  hordes can play on server with very weak or disabled hordes ...  those  who  dont  like challenges ,,, should have equal rules why should someone  spend lot of work  into building perfectly defendable base ... and then watch how useless all his work is  when next to him some  noob who seen it on youtube build base flying in air  from wood frames within  5 minutes  thats  100%  impenetrable  thats why such bugs need to be eliminated /limited as far as possible in name of fair play (apart of the fact flying  bases/hordes running in circles make game look like poorly coded/unfinished/bugged trash

This only bothers you if you don't like building bases or if you have a strong competitive spirit in general.

Neither of these things apply to me. I love building bases and I don't care what others do. I also don't see it as a challenge to shoot zombies. I find it rather boring.

My personal challenge is to build bases with a specific goals in mind. Be it to build a base where I can take a nap during the horde or a base with minimal resource consumption or one that is as large / small as possible.

The change in the vultures and the fact that they attack players trying to avoid the horde has nothing to do with pathing, by the way. It's just a punishment for the players who try to avoid the horde. I fight the horde but I don't mind if others don't. Everyone should play as he sees fit. That's why I don't like it when players think they can tell others how to play.
 

 

[sadpickle]

I think it would be interesting if zombies were permanent (did not despawn) and were generally more dangerous in combat, but dumber. They shouldn't be able to pathfind well. If you break LOS and stay quiet they should have trouble finding you, lose interest and wander around but still be in the area, so if you make noise or emerge they are on you again. This provides motive to make a secure base (one that breaks LOS), to fortify entrances, and to have fallbacks and other methods out. Because building a base is so resource intensive and zombies are wrecking balls, and because the Bloodmoon makes it impossible to hide, the meta encourages cheesing by either making it impossible for them to wreck your base, or simply relocating for the Bloodmoon to somewhere with no value (a POI with a 2nd floor for instance). This is especially true in single player when time management (looting, gathering, and building) in the first 7 days is critical.

tl;dr: zombies are too smart, they wreck fortifications quickly and on bloodmoon you simply cannot avoid them without cheesing. I'm considering just making them really dangerous to melee, dropping their block damage and disabling the bloodmoon entirely, but it's an imperfect solution.

 

[Sawth77]

While i think i'm being really obvious, if the problem of zombies battering down your walls is a problem....why not just turn down the block damage?  I completely agree a zombie crushing concrete in a couple of hits is silly, so i reduce their block damage down to 50 (or sometimes 25) percent.   This, of course, doesn't stop them from getting in if you don't deal with the situation, but toning down the crazy levels of damage they can do is a relatively easy thing to do.
 

 

[sadpickle]

While i think i'm being really obvious, if the problem of zombies battering down your walls is a problem....why not just turn down the block damage?  I completely agree a zombie crushing concrete in a couple of hits is silly, so i reduce their block damage down to 50 (or sometimes 25) percent.   This, of course, doesn't stop them from getting in if you don't deal with the situation, but toning down the crazy levels of damage they can do is a relatively easy thing to do.

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

 

[NyLocke]

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

This is an awesome idea. They should definitely implement this in some future patch. I don't know if there is any particular lore behind the setting of 7DtD, but the mechanics of the current patch make it seem as though the zombies are somehow related to the zombies from the COD universe. As in, they have some kind of supernatural aspect to them. Their strength and ferocity doesn't seem to be grounded in reality based physics. I would like it if eventually it was. Since, you know, the goal in 7DtD is reality based survival, not banishing Apothicons and magical shadow monsters and such.

 

[Ginger_beard24]

They only struggled if they sucked, I'm sorry to say it but its true, when I started, I never had any real issues even as a new player. I've never starved to death, or dehydrated to death, if you did manage to do that my hats off to you, as with all the food sources I don't even know how the hell you managed that. I started in a9 or 10, and went in blind, it also was my first survival game.

Sadly with the way 7dtd is setup exploiting the AI is pretty much the game in terms of horde night. They chew thru blocks way to fast for punching with their bare hands, I 've personally always found it really REALLY stupid how a zombie can punch thru stone, it should destroy their hands and blow their arms off.

On the AI, what the hell do you want man? they are zombies, zombies are not smart. They are only deadly in large numbers the problem is the numbers are never high enough in the game. IMO cities/towns should be packed with TONS of zombies on the street, enough that its a real fight to manage to clear enough to get into a poi, with there being far less of them outside of towns/cities.

Honestly I miss when we had a choice to bother with horde night, I used to like my underground bases, if I wanted to fight the bloodmoon horde I could, or I could ignore it entirely if I so wanted. Me? I often ignored it, not because I can't kill them, but because its a waste of resources and it just jumps my gamestage, making everything else more annoying. To this day I still rarely bother with the bloodmoon mechanic as its just not worth the waste of resources just for exp I can get anywhere else for cheaper due to sneak attacks and such.

I agree. There should be hordes of zombies roaming the cities. And I would personally like to see bigger cities and towns. There is far too much wasted space on the map. Areas one never needs to go to outside.of the occasional treasure map or supply drop.

 

[Sawth77]

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

I think this is a great idea.  Although I'm not a fan of the demolisher (on principle, having explosive zombies just seems off to me), something akin to the behemoth style monster would be a good counter for stronger material types.

Though, i would think that you'd have to make crafting anything past wood more difficult in order to balance it out.  As it is, crafting flag/cobble blocks are already super easy, and if you find a working mixer early on (or can buy it at the trader)  concrete blocks are possible on day 1.   In order to keep people from making nigh impenetrable bases up front, it'd require some balancing, but the concept is a good one. 

Also, like ginger was saying, larger towns and cities would be great.  Even a new prefab map that's just one huge metropolis would be a great addition.  

Now, if we could just get rid of that ridiculous "I hit a zombie and he starts running at me, regardless of settings" problem, we'd be golden.  I absolutely hate that addition.  <_<

 

[Jugginator]

All it boils down to is what the game is advertised as: A game where you gather your resources, build your base and defend it against the zombie hordes. Does zombies destroying concrete make sense? No, nor does zombies in general (why people even bring realism arguments into a game like this is rather crazy). Nor does carrying 400 metric tons of concrete in your backpack. But it wouldn't make tower defense (in the game's description) very fun. I'm sorry the handful of you dont get your realistic concrete or cobblestone, but having it impenetrable (and being able to hide under ground) would ruin the entire selling point of the game. Thankfully you can mod the game to suit your liking.

I've been saying this, but the ai doesn't need to evolve. Have any paths that are  non pathable cause the zombies to go into area destruct mode if there are no actual paths. That solves most cheese bases and ensures everyone has to deal with the horde in one way or another. And also prevents folks from accidentally cheesing the ai when they really just wanted to defend a base.

 

[BlopsDoctor]

well unlike animals ... zombies exist in  7 days to provide challenge  immersion  is secondary to balance ...  now we have  quite easy defense game (for average player who learned basics) with no major loses  on 7th days  would 

you prefer game where you build  2x2x2  concrete cube and laught  how "rotten meat" punch it whole night  for no damage while you shoot/smash  them from top ?

i think you  clealry bought  wrong game ... this is horror survival rpg   not "the sims"

zombies are  the only challenge/danger/enemy in this game  blood moon exists to force you to confront them (wandering  hordes are easy to dodge +  even at high gamestages usually mean just group of slow walker)

if they cant reach you due to bugs / flawed ai ... especially during blood moon ir makes them irrelevant and boring and degrade game to  3year + creative  building game

Obviously you are being disingenuous by not mentioning exploders, spitting vultures, and spitting/exploding cops intentionally.  Considering they are the biggest threats to any structure. You are also missing the point of what I said. If YOU are using exploits its not the games fault....ITS YOURS! You can't intentionally use an exploit and then complain that it shouldn't exist. YOU CHOSE TO USE IT. 

Plus you are admitting you dodge wandering hordes. "because they are slow walkers"? You can set all zombies to run faster than sprinting ferals. You are again choosing to not make the game harder and then complaining about it. Won't you play with max zombie spawns with all zombies set to sprint or higher, like I do, and then come talk to me about this game being easy!

 

[alanea]

With the AI change came also a higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode which is activated if they don't find a way to the player.

The new AI is good but the higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode has caused problems for players who like classic bases where you shoot the zombies from above. And they didn't want to repair their base every week.

I don't mind the new AI. I use the zombies' intelligence for my own purposes by building funnel bases. Therefore my bases usually take only little damage because I don't rely on walls but use traps.

well never seen your so called  "area destruction mode" in 200 day playthrough in a18 zombies never ever attacked anything unless they detected me or wildlife  wandering hordes simply stay at target  hanging around like  randomly spawned zombies

while horde  grouped bonus is rather stupid ... damage isnt that bad unless you trigger demolishers ....  those guys are extreme if you fail to handle them

also ... if they make base that basically tank  zombies and you are too lazy to repair it after horde  then you deserve to die  by doing two hordes in row withou repair  they basically double  zombie block damage  .... and then complain about it being too high     but even " facetanking"  bases  should have  valid entrance with doorsso zombies  group  up  on one side  where you can focus  your  defenses /attention .... instead bashing it from all sides  making you repair 4x more blocks

Fall traps? Nah too OP, TFP plz nerf. So now zombies are supernatural beings that can survive terminal velocity. Leading to cheese wedge moats. (Arguably nerfing realism and leading to less realistic bases)

The point I'm getting to is there is a constant race between people finding exploits and snowflakes complaining about them (and then TFP changing core game mechanics to nerf/make people play a certain way.)

Honestly I was happy before sleepers would respawn inside a poi I had just cleared, before a 5 zombie bear train hits my horde base 3 minutes before a blood moon horde starts. I was happy before zombies dug tunnels through straight solid rock into my backup bunker right after my horde base fell. I was happy with my old cobblestone castle that I'd have to defend against multiple breaches.

Now? You almost have to build a exploit base just to survive past your 4th or 5th blood moon horde. Meaning I can't play the game the way that it's fun for me anymore (or in anyway realistic for that matter)

fall traps ?  yeah  lets return to time of minecraft xp farms ...lets change bloodmoons back to state when you build pit taking down  99% zombie  hp and then they instantly die to blade trap/ fence  for free xp   all  you need is  4x4  hole to bedrock

yeah why  those  damned  zombies dig ....   lets rename game   " 7 days to dig  5 block deep hole and be immortal"

I think it would be interesting if zombies were permanent (did not despawn) and were generally more dangerous in combat, but dumber. They shouldn't be able to pathfind well.

tl;dr: zombies are too smart, they wreck fortifications quickly and on bloodmoon you simply cannot avoid them without cheesing. I'm considering just making them really dangerous to melee, dropping their block damage and disabling the bloodmoon entirely, but it's an imperfect solution.

sadly thats not possible   game optimalization is quite awfull  you cant  keep loaded multiple chunks withou  100gb ram requirement so chunk would have to register zombies and respawn them on return

but game actually  struggle to handle  lets say  50+ or 70+  zombies  even on strong machines(you can have spare hardware resources but game stops asking for more and fail to handle it)  AI gets buggy as hell many zombies do nothing  or start doing crazy stuff like running in circles  and fps  drops appear+errors in console +  possible crashes  .. its like when you explode huge building  and game turn into slideshow .. struggling to recalculate all that physics .. constantly    so nope .. we  cant have they are billions due to engine limitations even if they polished it a little

btw be carefull what you wish for . when   zombies didnt path so well they just attacked random block close to them ... damaging  both poi and bases  on multiple places even if they could reach you(but were too dumb for that)   zombies being too smart isnt that  big problem ...  problem is they all choose same  way to you

if you made wall around base and they split into lets say  3 groups  on several places ... it would be far better

than   current smart zombies = lets all focus on single block    old dumb zombies = lets make hole every  other block

well bloodmoon is created that unavoidable challenging event thats giving you reason to build base and prepare for it ... many survivat games have  such event

https://conanexiles.gamepedia.com/The_Purge

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

 again making  concrete block  once you have cement mixer is as simple as making wood block ( and have 16x more hp)

making "almost impossible to destroy" block with  3 hits of pickaxe and little time would be re*arded

if concrete have to be  rmore resistant .. ti must be alooooot harder to get as well

This is an awesome idea. They should definitely implement this in some future patch. I don't know if there is any particular lore behind the setting of 7DtD, but the mechanics of the current patch make it seem as though the zombies are somehow related to the zombies from the COD universe. As in, they have some kind of supernatural aspect to them. Their strength and ferocity doesn't seem to be grounded in reality based physics. I would like it if eventually it was. Since, you know, the goal in 7DtD is reality based survival, not banishing Apothicons and magical shadow monsters and such.

well to  have  survival game where zombies mean  any noticeable danger   you need

a) have milions of them and be rounded

b) they must be fast and strong

zombies can be both .. many variation of zombie use one or even both types with no magic involved

sadly its  game not movie ...  so no walking dead ... slow harmless zombies .. you pretend to fear but even granny can walk away from them

also theres gameplay problem if  making  concrete block takes 5sec  of your time hiting common stone and while of forge /cement mixer time  you cant really want it  to be damage immune from every zombie except demolisher (day 50+)  can you ? especially when your first trader  have  50% chance to have intact cement mixer ( as well as many POIs)   its quite realistic to makel concrete blocks during day  1  so yeah gameplay wise even simplest zombies must be able to get trhough it in some realistic time

I agree. There should be hordes of zombies roaming the cities. And I would personally like to see bigger cities and towns. There is far too much wasted space on the map. Areas one never needs to go to outside.of the occasional treasure map or supply drop.

iam sure thats long term goal  but they have clumsy unfinished system to load poi ( if you destroy house its visible from far but falls  appart when you run closer lol btw)  and not enought  poi(they add some every alpha)  but it definitelyt akes lot of work to build new one .. especially big like factory or  waterworks lol also they do awesome job with hiding small loot everywhere .. or  huge  laboratories mines complexes etc in simple house where you wouldnt expect it

even cities now have lets same   5-10x same house also you dont want every city to have every single poi to give people reason to actually visit other cities as well

 

[Kalen]

yeah why  those  damned  zombies dig ....   lets rename game   " 7 days to dig  5 block deep hole and be immortal"

And now its a couple of ramps and wedge tips and you're immortal.   At least hiding underground made some kind of logical sense.... seeing zombies endlessly loop is just ridiculous.

 

[alanea]

Obviously you are being disingenuous by not mentioning exploders, spitting vultures, and spitting/exploding cops intentionally.  Considering they are the biggest threats to any structure. You are also missing the point of what I said. If YOU are using exploits its not the games fault....ITS YOURS! You can't intentionally use an exploit and then complain that it shouldn't exist. YOU CHOSE TO USE IT. 

Plus you are admitting you dodge wandering hordes. "because they are slow walkers"? You can set all zombies to run faster than sprinting ferals. You are again choosing to not make the game harder and then complaining about it. Won't you play with max zombie spawns with all zombies set to sprint or higher, like I do, and then come talk to me about this game being easy!

for single player yes .. if you cheat you cheat self

if its easy to cheat in multiplayer its problem.. also ai issues arent about you abusing them ... they happen all time even when you clear poi  zombies fall zombies get stuck ... zombies run back up and fall again ... you cant really prevent flawed ai from doing mess

spitting vultures- definitely not issue for wall/base destruction  blood moon vultures are overall 100% solved by having junk turret /shotgun turret/9mm turret aimed in area above you

demolishers - they have some block damage but attack quite slowly  ... during blood moons  one expldoed in my  200 day walkthrough  if they explode they are destructive .. on other side exploding demolisher is game punishing you for mistake (  i would say damage is adequate but area should be smaller)  .. well or reduce damage to half but keep area

spitting cops ...  yes they can damage  1/2 - 3/4 concrete block over horde night in late stages with spit  but its not really major issue also they spit only   if they see you .. they dont spit on random block they really piss people just because  people use dirt cheap wood bars instead iron bars and cop see you  = spit on you  but cant spit throug bar and  hit block with extremely small durability ( hopefully not the one you standing on lol)

i see this one as bug tho  iron  / wood bars are so  open they should  definitelly allow cop  spit through instead hitting block

exploding cops -  hmmm not huge issue while definitely not pleasant thing ... they are quite harmless by both range/damage compared to demolisher  they are doom of blade traps  but even several explosions ones wont destroy concrete block also they decide to run to you and try to explode at very low hp  if you have  even  simple firearm its to biggie to kill them before they explode  ( and electric fence keeps them stunned significant % of time delaying this behavior even more ofter making them dead  even before they manage to think about it)

wandering hordes are slow in other way .... they spawn ... running toward your  location  you used to be when they spawned  90%  time youre not standing on same place  unless you are inside fortified base combine this with small range to spot you  and boom  1 ) hordes miss you if you moving   2) hordes run around  withou noticing you if you lets say moved to harvest next tree or rock the only thing that really lure them from more than few blocks is shooting

and no  making everything run  kinda sucks ... i like that variability .. just mess with  xml  and make ferals/irradiated prevail while still keeping some normal walkers for effect i fint it quite boring if are all zombies at max speed as theres no variability (it still dont make anything hard simply because  marksman/ak or even smg in hands is unstopable in corridor ragdoll/stagger keep them back 

the other problem is mid - late game even light armor makes you ignore 70%+ dmg so you can easily tank even  irradiated ferals when things go wrong or take cop explosion into face

on survivalist ... insane is fine too  but i wouldnt recommend it to anyone as everything feels bit too bullet spongy +33%  damage(no biggie) +100% hp over survivalist =  bullet sponges   with huge chance for exploding head

And now its a couple of ramps and wedge tips and you're immortal.   At least hiding underground made some kind of logical sense.... seeing zombies endlessly loop is just ridiculous.

yeah ,,, thats why i see zombie pathing over block they cant walk over but fall as severe game breaking bug

thats a) abused by players  b) happens  all time in POIs to everyone

 sure i agree high end  blocks should be alot harder to destroy  BUT 

1) if concrete should be tought it must be difficult to get to balance it   now its  just rock  and people have tens of thousands rocks and no other use for them its basically trash material from minning we throw away

2) no block should be trully immortal

3) no block should be able to hold of  7 day hordes with single layer

4) no block  with extreme hp should be simple to  place  = multiple upgrade phases .... drying  ...etc

instead ... hey  look boss room lets slam this 15k block in front of doors  so they can bash it for week while i shot them risk free

 

[RipClaw]

well never seen your so called  "area destruction mode" in 200 day playthrough in a18 zombies never ever attacked anything unless they detected me or wildlife  wandering hordes simply stay at target  hanging around like  randomly spawned zombies

You have probably already seen it but have not perceived it as such. It's easy to provoke.

In creative mode, build a 3x3x7 concrete or steel tower with two rows of iron bars around it. Then build some 3-block high pillars around the tower using a weaker material like flagstone. Stand on the iron bars on the outer edge and spawn some zombies and get their attention. You will notice that some or even most of the zombies will attack the pillars and not the tower you are standing on.  This is the Area Destruction Mode.

In A16 they would have ignored the pillars and also not attacked the tower but would have gathered directly under you. If you moved on the iron bars then the zombies moved with you.

The zombies would only have attacked the tower directly if you weren't standing on the iron bars but in the middle of the tower.

 

[Boidster]

With the AI change came also a higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode which is activated if they don't find a way to the player.

well never seen your so called  "area destruction mode" in 200 day playthrough in a18 zombies never ever attacked anything unless they detected me

Unless they detected you? No kidding...

It is "so-called" because that is what the developers called it and it has been in game since A17.

 

[alanea]

You have probably already seen it but have not perceived it as such. It's easy to provoke.

Unless they detected you? No kidding...

yeah sorry guys my bad ... i somehow read if they don't find to the player .. was thinking he means some behaviour where zombies attack his stuff even if they dont see him/hes away like they did with any ground floor bases in  a16

well it kind of make sense ... that zombie cant reach him and get pissed = enrage and attack close target ... sure attacking pillar makes more sense

doubt i ever seen it at base as i usually keep valid acess so i never nhave to repair repair outer walls but yeah  zombies often attack random stuff in pois  it just dont take my attention ... before a17 they banged random stuff even if they had valid  path so veterans are used to  not pay too much attention to that

 

[Zerfall2142]

fall traps ?  yeah  lets return to time of minecraft xp farms ...lets change bloodmoons back to state when you build pit taking down  99% zombie  hp and then they instantly die to blade trap/ fence  for free xp   all  you need is  4x4  hole to bedrock

yeah why  those  damned  zombies dig ....   lets rename game   " 7 days to dig  5 block deep hole and be immortal"

Never said building a pit wasn't cheese. I was using it as an example of the constant cycle of exploits and nerfs. What is the endgame? Anytime an exploit to game mechanics or AI patting is found, TFP changes something. Taking us further away from what the game was when it originally entered alpha.  If the devs keep pigeonholing base designs into finding the next exploit where will we end up? It's a sandbox right? So why are we constantly being forced into a certain style of play?

What is the endgame here, bases in outer space and spaceX astronaut zombies?

 

[Roland]

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

It opens only one tactical possibility: Everyone skips to concrete even more than they do now....

 

[Boidster]

It opens only one tactical possibility: Everyone skips to concrete even more than they do now....

<dons flameproof onesie> I wonder if concrete blocks should be gated behind a skill. Maybe Advanced Engineering 2 so it's not too hard to get. I do kinda remember cobblestone being more important back in the A15/A16 days. Nowadays finding a working cement mixer is pretty easy and having concrete foundations in a bespoke base by Day 14, if not Day 7, is standard.