PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[bloodmoth13]

well if they did that they should update the primitive bow! so it can compete with them!

plus for assault rifle class!

it could ether be a Makeshift Machine gun that uses the blunderbuss rounds (or it could be called black powder ammo!)

or it can be a harmonica rifle! like this

it would have more ammo then the flintlock and musket but would have lower damage and a Much slower reload!

pic here

Spoiler

I dont think that the primitive bow needs a buff (maybe it does, it feels awful) but i agree with turning blunderbuss ammo into blackpowder ammo to share across antique weapons though, i was going to suggest it myself but didnt want joel to reply with TLDR.

For an antique machine gun i think giving it a high reload time and recoil and about 5 shots would be pretty good, fire rate would be the only thing going for it so id keep it pretty fast, just really clunky.

I have always wanted the blunderbuss to be relevant so im looking forward to A19.

 

[wolfbain5]

not to happy with the stone age part. watched as he opened a crate from working stiff to get a stone shovel. Can see the conversation now

"Hey guys, I found a sealed crate from a pre apoc manufacturer! it's gotta have something good... a Flinstone's shovel? WTF? this is what they sold in stores?"
 

doesnt make sense. I agree that finding stone age in bags and such, but sealed manufacturers crates? no. I hope that was a fluke.

 

[Gazz]

A 17th century machine gun?

All the REALLYs. =P

 

[Jost Amman]

not to happy with the stone age part. watched as he opened a crate from working stiff to get a stone shovel. Can see the conversation now

"Hey guys, I found a sealed crate from a pre apoc manufacturer! it's gotta have something good... a Flinstone's shovel? WTF? this is what they sold in stores?"
 

doesnt make sense. I agree that finding stone age in bags and such, but sealed manufacturers crates? no. I hope that was a fluke.

Probably it's just that they don't have this level of fine control on loot tables for every single crate type.

 

[Gazz]

doesnt make sense. I agree that finding stone age in bags and such, but sealed manufacturers crates? no. I hope that was a fluke.

You can mod the game so that store crates only drop steel tools.

I absolutely agree that iron/stone tools in such a loot container are highly unrealistic. (like it currently is in A18)

By using that mod you just have to accept that realistically there will only be one tier of items in the game. /shrug

 

[wolfbain5]

You can mod the game so that store crates only drop steel tools.

I absolutely agree that iron/stone tools in such a loot container are highly unrealistic. (like it currently is in A18)

By using that mod you just have to accept that realistically there will only be one tier of items in the game. /shrug

nah, I have never found stone tools in those boxes in a18, only iron and steel. which is 2 tiers

 

[Khalagar]

I dont think that the primitive bow needs a buff (maybe it does, it feels awful)

It's so bad it's a meme, even on the dev stream you could tell by Lathan and Rick's reactions they knew it was pretty much a waste of time to even try it. Even the full bow is only okayish. The bow is in a pretty weird spot. It competes against the Pistol for use in it's own tree, and loses badly. The only advantage the bow has is explosive ammo, but actual explosives from the perception tree are better. In fact, the hunting rifle from the perception tree is better than the crossbow too . . .

I do think bows need a bit of a TLC update, I think most players would rather have a level 3 pistol than a level 5 compound bow or compound crossbow, and that's a problem. I tried doing a crossbow build in A18 and even with perk investment and a level 5 compound crossbow, I literally couldn't find a use for it that my level 2 unperked hunting rifle didn't do 10 times better.

Compound bow is kinda where where the Wooden bow needs to be damage wise imo, and primitive bow is just bad, I can't think of a single situation where a primitive bow is worth building over just crafting 4-5 spears and throwing those instead

 

[Gazz]

nah, I have never found stone tools in those boxes in a18, only iron and steel. which is 2 tiers

Exactly. You suggested your change on grounds of realism and in A18 there are iron tools in store boxes which is not a thing in reality.

You would have to find an antiques store to find any iron tools.

So doing that would limit most loot to the highest tier.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Exactly. You suggested your change on grounds of realism and in A18 there are iron tools in store boxes which is not a thing in reality.

You would have to find an antiques store to find any iron tools.

So doing that would limit most loot to the highest tier.

So are you saying that iron/steel tools have been removed from the loot table of those store boxes, or do you mean that the player has to be around x loot gamestage for them to begin to appear in them? I'm confused...

Also, have motor tool parts been touched in the toolboxes? In A18 it's usually relatively easy to craft an auger somewhat early on (at least in my experience) since motor tool parts are occasionally found in bunches of 3-4 at any loot gamestage in those toolboxes; provided you find the auger schematic as well.

 

[wolfbain5]

Exactly. You suggested your change on grounds of realism and in A18 there are iron tools in store boxes which is not a thing in reality.

You would have to find an antiques store to find any iron tools.

So doing that would limit most loot to the highest tier.

actually. I see the iron as the cheap quality while the steel are the high quality. but most stores dont carry poor quality

 

[crazywildfire]

Not trying to be a smart @%$*#! really asking so I understand it right. What do you expect to find if you decide to go to a store day one and bust open one of those boxes? From the way it sounds you don't think stone should spawn in them so you want iron or steel tools on day one? 

 

[wolfbain5]

Not trying to be a smart @%$*#! really asking so I understand it right. What do you expect to find if you decide to go to a store day one and bust open one of those boxes? From the way it sounds you don't think stone should spawn in them so you want iron or steel tools on day one? 

low quality grey @%$*#!. I mean that's what we find in a18 on back. parts, mats. stone weapons or tools shouldnt be in stores. cars, cabinets, sports bags, why not survivors who cant craft stuff but found a better one and dumped theirs is feasible. But not in unopened store crates.

 

[crazywildfire]

Then what would the point in stone age be in the game? I mean I would be happy with the lowest iron tool over a stone one anytime. But if it is possible to rush to a store and have iron tools in 10 min of the game then what is the point in stone tools then? At that rate make nothing lootable at all until day 20 *shrugs*.... sometimes game play out weighs realism. Some of us like a progression system and not have everything day 1. 

Just like some of us never had issues with finding bury treasure or quest items in poi's. I wish it was a turn on and off button so I wouldn't have to go into the XML to find/change it. But all these icons on map and yellow markers clutter the screen and is gringy imo. So will have to mod it out for my likings. So sometimes we don't always get what we want. 

 

[wolfbain5]

Then what would the point in stone age be in the game? I mean I would be happy with the lowest iron tool over a stone one anytime. But if it is possible to rush to a store and have iron tools in 10 min of the game then what is the point in stone tools then? At that rate make nothing lootable at all until day 20 *shrugs*.... sometimes game play out weighs realism. Some of us like a progression system and not have everything day 1. 

you can already do that. day one, hit a hardware store, get iron tools. most people start with a stone tool to break into the crates and doors to get to those iron tools. that is straight gameplay

so the highlighted portion of your post is meaningless in this case.

 

[Damocles]

you can already do that. day one, hit a hardware store, get iron tools. most people start with a stone tool to break into the crates and doors to get to those iron tools. that is straight gameplay

so the highlighted portion of your post is meaningless in this case.

The game could literally spawn anything it wants, when you open the box.

So not offering higher tier tools in the beginning is just a question of the code choosing it.

 

[wolfbain5]

thought that was determined by gamestage

 

[Aldranon]

How will this mechanic work with the Junk Sledge? It seems like it's main (intended) use is to stagger / CC zombies, so any kind of stun or CC resistance changes would hit it even harder than life is already hitting it.

I was trying to think of hallway set ups where you could have the two junk sledges hitting at the same time, but any kind of CC immunity will shut that down . That might even explain why the Junk Sledge basically never did anything in Lathan's stream at all, it might have been nullfiied by the zombies being immune to it's stagger

Why just two junk sledges?  Yes, you can only have two active at a time, (and I haven't thought out all the details) but think 20+ junk sledges, in a long corridor with a series of doors/hatches!

Each set of two turrets are separate enough from other turrets to ensure their activation.

The two turrets are on each side of the door, one hitting low and the other on a block hitting the head. (could they both hit the head if they were on blocks?) 

As I am a fan of saving my ammo for POI's this could be a thing for me!

 

[wolfbain5]

Why just two junk sledges?  Yes, you can only have two active at a time, (and I haven't thought out all the details) but think 20+ junk sledges, in a long corridor with a series of doors/hatches!

Each set of two turrets are separate enough from other turrets to ensure their activation.

The two turrets are on each side of the door, one hitting low and the other on a block hitting the head. (could they both hit the head if they were on blocks?) 

As I am a fan of saving my ammo for POI's this could be a thing for me!

LOL, this reminds me of my tunnel defense on day 14 horde had hatches set vertically with a turret 4 steps back, set in a series of 8 in a blocky circle. fall backk, let the turret help out, fall back when empty. go to the next one, when I got back around, just reloaded them as I fell back. just remember to open the hatches when the turret runs out of ammo. repair the next hatch and keep going

 

[Aldranon]

LOL, this reminds me of my tunnel defense on day 14 horde had hatches set vertically with a turret 4 steps back, set in a series of 8 in a blocky circle. fall backk, let the turret help out, fall back when empty. go to the next one, when I got back around, just reloaded them as I fell back. just remember to open the hatches when the turret runs out of ammo. repair the next hatch and keep going

Yeah, the open hatches allows the player to get involved with his own melee/whatever attacks.

The reason I might like doors (wooden doors to be exact as the material is cheap) better is I could focus on just repair of the door!

So a one wide hallway, with recessed places for the turrets.  Holding the door as long as I can then fall back to the next door.

I'm really liking this, the more I think about it! 

 

[wolfbain5]

yeah but if the turret doesnt see the zeds head clearly, it wont attack. been having that problem of LOS on my most recent playthrough. the turrets just arent attacking. think I will make a vid and compare to a19