PC Zombies is About Hordes and Numbers

No hordes, you say? How many hordes can fit on the head of a pin?

Alternatively,

A horde is a horde of course of course

And nobody knows the size of a horde

That is of course unless the horde

Is not full of many undead!

/I'm old

asmosnuts said:
So would the same reasons account for  nerfed map sizes and limited range of poi on a map, the 3 same poi on the same street.?

 The big maps, large numbers seem so long ago ( shut up! I'm not crying!!!! )
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Everything except "3 POI on the same street" is down to resource constraints, yes. Optimization of the game will help, having a stronger PC will help.

The 3x POI on the same street is the RWG engine. With the large # of POIs the odds are you wouldn't see 3 of the same on the same street, but it can happen. I've got two identical Pass'N'Gas POIs next to each other in one town on my map, tho I'm not sure if they're vanilla POIs or if they came from Compopack. The new RWG coming with A20 might reduce these occurrences even more, or eliminate them (within reason).

 
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asmosnuts said:
 So would the same reasons account for  nerfed map sizes and limited range of poi on a map, the 3 same poi on the same street.?

 The big maps, large numbers seem so long ago ( shut up! I'm not crying!!!! )
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Before I answer, I want to state that I loved the infinite maps and was personally very forgiving of hiccups and odd moments where new chunks needed to load in order to have infinite maps and in no way was in favor of giving those up.

Now let me explain:

The developers moved to a system of pregeneration where the map is generated one time before you play on it for the first time. After that it behaves just as Navesgane does for the purposes of loading in and out of memory. A full map is stored on your hard drive so that as you travel the world, the loading and unloading of chunks is much faster than straight procedural generation. This helped performance quite a bit.

You cannot pregenerate infinity. So the new system no longer supported infinite worlds. The new system does support distant terrain and the new A20 feature of dynamically updated distant terrain that will represent player made changes. None of that was possible with infinite maps. The new system improves performance over the old.

Whether those advantages are worth the loss of infinite maps is going to be up to each person. The developers thought it was worth it. Maybe they were wrong and it was a big mistake. At the same time I also understand that at this point there is zero chance of them dumping the current system (mistake or not). 

Dupes of POIs is one of the things they worked hard on for A20. Hopefully you won't see much of it if at all. With over 145 new POI's in addition to the new POI's A19 added there should be a good variety in A20. If you do see 3 clone POI's all lined up on the same block then definitely do post a picture of it along with your map's seed and the location and post it in the A20 bug pool once that opens.

 
Roland said:
Before I answer, I want to state that I loved the infinite maps and was personally very forgiving of hiccups and odd moments where new chunks needed to load in order to have infinite maps and in no way was in favor of giving those up.

Now let me explain: <long defense of stupid tiny maps deleted>
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Y U like small maps tho?  :classic_biggrin:

 
pApA^LeGBa said:
It´s on the offical homepage, right on top. Also i believe it´s in the offical trailers and videos, not sure about that tough. @warmer

Edit: You even posted the link. It says "The Survival Horde Crafting Game" in big red letters. And it is in the offical trailer right at the end.
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Well that's interesting, it's not actually in print anywhere. It's a picture, hence not searchable. I wonder why they don't use that word anywhere in the description...

 
pApA^LeGBa said:
Well ok. Explaining would be to tell why it is that way. But saying it can´t be changed due to minimum specs when those are outdated and that part of players isn´t even 5%, is defending it.
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I never said it can't be changed. I never even said that I hope they never change it. In fact, I went back and read my posts in this thread and I actually said that I hope that they do change it but it isn't up to me. My original statement was a simple one of fact to answer the question of "Why do we have empty worlds when modders can easily add tons of zombies?". 

Now you seem to be asking "Will the devs ever re-evaluate the minimum requirements of this game and perhaps make design decisions based upon a higher standard?" to which I can only give my opinion that I do hope that they will and my own assumption that as they get nearer to gold release they will surely look at it and make a decision. I will also add that the currently listed specs are not the same as originally posted back in 2013. They have changed at least twice so it seems likely that they will probably change again.

But I have no idea when and I do always defend their right to set their own priorities. You got me there.

warmer said:
Well that's interesting, it's not actually in print anywhere. It's a picture, hence not searchable. I wonder why they don't use that word anywhere in the description...
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too controversial... ;)

 
Now that´s funny. Not. In fact i got called that lot on the steam forums, same with fanboy. But why do you bring up that term now? It wasn´t mentioned anywhere here. 

 
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If you want to accuse someone of defending, you can accuse me as I am defending Roland not defending horde sizes.  

okay had to check that made sense to me. 😁

If you look at Roland’s posts, it is clear he was explaining why the developers made the decisions they did on a game in early development.  He was not defending it, just providing context.  Context is key as it shows the logic and why decisions were made.

A good example of defending is actually debates.  Each person picks a side and defends or promotes that side, even if they don’t agree with it.  They minimize or gloss over the weaknesses and amplify the strengths.  If you read Roland’s posts, you can clearly see he was not glossing over the weaknesses of limiting the number of zombies.

If you look at the nuances in his posts, you can see the teacher in him giving us, the player base, some knowledge that we may or may not know.  I also wonder if people already drank from the poison well, and everything they see associated with TFP as being poison.

 
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A White Knight is a pejorative term for a forum user that defends the developers at all costs. I brought it up because I thought it would be funny coming from me and also to rib Mega for being such an outspoken fanboy. ;)  

BFT2020 said:
 I also wonder if people already drank from the poison well, and everything they see associated with TFP as being poison.
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Not if they drank from this big bowl of koolaid I've got over here first!!!! lol (but really)

 
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@BFT2020 My whole converstion before Roland popped in, was with Meganoth.

Point still stands, balancing the game for propably not even 5% of the playerbase isn´t a good idea imo. But we will see. I´d rather balance it for the majority and give players with weaker hardware the option to tune it down.

What i really don´t understand tough is why colours for building pieces are hard coded and not beeing able to be modded. I think someone said it´s also due to performance issues, not really sure there tough. But following that logic, overhauls shouldn´t be possible either. There is overhauls that hurt the performance pretty hard.

 
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I agree with @pApA^LeGBa 100%
let them with weak computers tune it down! Look guys it’s year 2021 close to 2022, new Gen pcs been out for so long! majority of ppl playing with pcs have pretty decent rigs . With pci 4.0 and soon 5.0 and ddr5 rams and ddr6 vc everyone can run the game smoothly if they don’t go crazy with ultra details…my gf has a pc from work with i7 4th Gen and 16gb of ram plus a 200$ vc and we play together without any lag and it runs smoothly. Should change the settings permanently to much higher numbers of mobs and bring to live the world we playing in and let others drop the numbers if they running a 486 lol I have a i9 11th Gen , z590 godlike and 64gb ddr4 , m.2 2 tb Samsung and 1080ti …. I run the game max performance and max mobs 64 on bloodmoon and modified the numbers to 64 on all mobs in biomes… still running smoothly the game

 
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We can actually craft Survival Hordes. You know, vast armies of little mobs who go out and chop down trees and make tools and food and weapons and complain about how small and empty the world is.

 
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