PC zombie AI/pathing is a joke.

[Maje]

Community - We'd like there to be some risk to hiding underground, we think players should not be 100% safe underground or be able to avoid hordes.

Devs - Cool, we've destroyed underground hiding. To be safe, we've destroyed 95% of underground base iterations including active defenses. If you want to do anything underground, better make sure you get the pathing 100% perfect or you're screwed. it's fun game design.

Also, to be super safe, we've overturned zombie damage to structures so it's basically impossible to stand on the same level as them and attempt to melee them.

We basically want you to play one way. Stand on a tall structure with spikes around you and shoot down. This is fun game design. Be careful how you get up to your perch though. The zombies are physic. Make sure to nerd pole up, or use half blocks or hatches in a ridiculous fashion. Meticulous attention to detail regarding zombie pathing is fun game design.

We know players are smart and will come up with new and cool base designs. We're very interested in the mazes players are creating to take advantage of zombie pathing. We hope to give regular updates to our rat and cheese maze simulator in the future

 

[Royal Deluxe]

...Also, to be super safe, we've overturned zombie damage to structures so it's basically impossible to stand on the same level as them and attempt to melee them....

hmmmm lets see

Next game i started by focus on getting a Minibike, to get it soon i started with 200% loot the first day.But the reason for this post here is my nice new melee defense

 

[Maje]

hmmmm lets see

So you've made a base which takes advantage of a very specific way zombies path, which would literally fail to work with the addition of one block? How is this not a maze/cheese simulator? How is what you have posted not proving my point?

- - - Updated - - -

I should add, I'm not saying what you've designed is not clever, it certainly is, but it's still a rat/maze/cheese simulator.

 

[Ttocs]

I used to agree but the more time i spent playing i actually started to enjoy it! I was never an underground dweller though so cant comment really on that but there is alot you can do with them. check out Jawoodle on youtube for some ideas i got some but yeah it does use exploiting but the ai in 17.1 which is coming soon will change some of that. I agree theyre abit strong on block damage my first 17 play i built a16 style defense huge walls 50 blocks and was sad to see them all use the same way in but since changing it up its ok.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

And i dont say that you are wrong, i love underground bases too.

Maybe use my modlet (the undestroyable Block part) to make a Huge yard you can build below in safety

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?103985-Vanilla-modlet-collection

 

[LuckyStar]

Yeah there's clearly some work to be done on the AI still.

Give it some time.

TFP will come up with something.

I suspect we'll always have a way of cheesing the AI though.

 

[SnakeWildlife]

I would rather have dumb zombies and a fun game.

Diablo II was a very unbalanced game, but it was also my most fun game.

Warframe is a very VERY unbalanced game, but its also one of the funnest games iv played.

Notice the pattern?

SuperUltra Balance = A lot less fun for many people.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

its more the problem of 2 opposite gameelements

Tower defense against Building game

You cant have both on a decent niveau.

Well except you teleport zombies, but who could want that

 

[Kattla]

The fingers of doom.

View attachment 27102

Of course, totally unrelated. Simple, early game concept.

Zombies will run up the fingers, and break the spikes on their way.

Once they break the innermost spike, they'll see a 2 block high jump, which

they can't do, and move onto the start of the next finger.

Barbed wire fences between the fingers make sure they take their time

doing so.

Not horde proof, at least not without active defense. And zombies will

sometime jump atop of each other, and get to the middle platform.

Player entrance is by using the diagonal ramps. Zombies ain't

very good at diagonal pathing.

edit: And of course, when the zombies have moved onto a new finger,

it is easy enough to put down new spikes on a cleared finger.

 

[leaderdog]

You can't blame people for exploiting the ai. The current AI isn't good gameplay considering building a large base with amazing defenses result in a bee line through one area where they all charge through. So to build anything other than a tower drop off, or some variation of it, limits your ability to survive or even have fun.

Even making a simple step jump base with wood was more than enough to manage the first horde night. Was it fun, not really, it was effective though.

A16 and before was better in terms of them coming from multiple locations to come at you. Makes it feel more of a horde.

This straight line attack isn't exactly fun.

I do miss the spikes.

One of the devs mentioned how fun is it to just relax on your horde base while everything died on the spikes. The answer to that is, it was amazing. It shows your design and hard work paid off and it worked the way you had hoped. Now, there's not much to the ai, you can fool it, trick it or just make it line up for the kill.

But I'm sure they'll come up with something. Multiple different ai's for each zombie would make for far more unpredictable horde nights.

 

[BobTheBard]

One of the devs mentioned how fun is it to just relax on your horde base while everything died on the spikes. The answer to that is, it was amazing. It shows your design and hard work paid off and it worked the way you had hoped. Now, there's not much to the ai, you can fool it, trick it or just make it line up for the kill.

As a builder type I can confirm that yes, this is what at least some of us enjoy. Not the act of killing the zombies but the knowledge that you defeated horde night using cunning rather than force. For me, the biggest sense of pride comes when I can literally get up and grab a sandwich during horde night while listening to a parade of dying zombies in my wireless headset.

Some supervillains enjoy fighting the hero hand to hand, trusting in their strength and agility.

Some supervillains enjoy fighting at a distance, trusting in their speed and accuracy.

Some supervillains enjoy not fighting at all, letting the hero walk into an elaborate deathtrap and trusting in their intelligence and planning.

 

[sadpickle]

I am sure the zombie pathing method of increasing difficulty is a direct result of being unable to put hundreds or even dozens of zombies into the world at once. That's the critical flaw. Almost all zombie lore is in agreement that zombies are not dangerous because they are especially tough or clever. They are dangerous because of their numbers. The game engine cannot populate the world with huge numbers of zombies, so the devs have no choice but to give them exceptional powers of navigating hallways and turning them into hulkish bullet sponges. It's turning the entire concept on it's head, to the point where zombies in 7DTD are hardly zombies anymore.

I've logged 1500 hours in this game and I hardly think of them as zombies. They seem more like, I don't know, mutated crazy people to me, based on their spawn rate and behavior.

We basically want you to play one way. Stand on a tall structure with spikes around you and shoot down. This is fun game design.

I agree, it is too bad that it has come to this. Material used in base design hardly matters, as everything has the consistency of wet tissue paper. Good base design now is entirely focused around exploiting the easily-exploited AI, or standing on a platform they can't reach.

One of the devs mentioned how fun is it to just relax on your horde base while everything died on the spikes. The answer to that is, it was amazing. It shows your design and hard work paid off and it worked the way you had hoped. Now, there's not much to the ai, you can fool it, trick it or just make it line up for the kill.

I really don't understand why using a passive defense screen of log spikes was such a bad thing. Or why it would have been impossible to prevent their rotation, if that was the real reason to remove them. I would have been fine with them staying in but being locked to an upright position. Who really builds a bunch of active defenses? Who has the time to feed turrets bullets all day long?

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I agree, it is too bad that it has come to this. Material used in base design hardly matters, as everything has the consistency of wet tissue paper. Good base design now is entirely focused around exploiting the easily-exploited AI, or standing on a platform they can't reach.

The irony, of course, being that the AI and block damage changes that we're talking about were put in to stop people dealing with horde night by standing on platforms where the zombies can't reach them...