PC You have voxels, SO USE THEM!

I do think they should add the caves and tunnels back in.
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I agree one of the funnest things about terraria for me was digging underground not knowing what goodies or stuff I may find, then finding something and exploring it. I'd love for that to come back to 7dtd, Personally I blame the SI system for why the caves were removed. There is a reason most voxel based games do not use a SI system, and this is why. Why not make the SI system ONLY apply to player built things? and then again ONLY on the surface layer? Within Limits of course, if you completly dig out a hole under a poi it will collapse in as there is nothing supporting it, but if there is even one block supporting it, it should be held up. Realistic? hell no, better for gameplay as a whole? hell yes. Gameplay trumps realism imo.

If you want a realsitic zombie game play project zomboid where you even have to manage your chars mental health, even busting into a house is a major ordeal in it, its not as easy as just bashing the door in like in 7dtd. I refunded project zomboid due to the stupid about of micromanagement that is required, it just wasn't fun.

- - - Updated - - -

Its all still there, the only change is, the character has asthma now, and cant do much without tiring himself/herself quickly😂😂
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Asthma and copd from being a 2 pack a day smoker for 20+ years by how fast your stam drains. Why don't we have a skill for faster stamina regen yet? its needed, stick it in agility and I assure you people will take it.

 
"Thats boring yo!
Why you want to do that when you can be out killing zeds for that sweet xp and skill points. Digging is lame man. GRINDFEST SNOOZE!"

- Gazz, probably

We used to get super excited when we found one of these. We would set up little huts in them :(
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I'm so sad about the fact, that I can see this beeing said (a bit more sarcastic).

Exploration? Trying to build a hordesafe base? Micromanaging lots of stuff? Natural progression?

You are just insane if you want those!

 
Underground stuff would be nice. Hell, a little bit of ore would be nice. Literally spent hours digging to bedrock and clearing out a huge room and not 1 block of ore. Annoying.

 
I'm so sad about the fact, that I can see this beeing said (a bit more sarcastic).Exploration? Trying to build a hordesafe base? Micromanaging lots of stuff? Natural progression?

You are just insane if you want those!
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Right. Do you want to know why Im not playing anymore? Forget all the other complaints like diggers and perks and xp. Ive lost interest because I can not LIVE in my game anymore. Previously when you played either Sp or with others you could look forward to a night of living in your game. You want to go out and scavenge and risk everything looking for better weapons? Do it. You want to spend the night finishing up a part of your base, or rearranging some stuff in the base to make it bigger or better, cool. Maybe you want to go down to your mine and continue working on some ore. Relieve some stress, grab that pick and head down and have at it.

Want to farm a bit, plant some seeds, drop some fertilizer and maybe increase the size of it. Ok have to head out and find some seeds to bring home so we can replant. Cook some food so we have a nice storage full of what we need? Sweet I'll go grab some animals and cook up a bunch of stuff.

Now it's all level locked, it's all focused on killing zombies ONLY and a lot of the freedom to just BREATHE and live inside your charactor or your game is GONE. We used to build towns, and we didn't always go and find zeds we used to just chat with each other, or joke around. Or we would help out in the mine. This pictures up there? That is what it represents to me. Heart. Time. Now all we have is a damn RPG First Shooter with ALL of its heart and soul removed.

I SO miss the days that those pictures represent. A scary intense ride with moments of refreshing busy work to help you calm down from the previous days killing. Pacing. A well rounded experience. Not an arcade style Fallout rip off with NO HEART.

People dont have 3000 plus hours in this game from JUST killing zombies.

 
Right. Do you want to know why Im not playing anymore? Forget all the other complaints like diggers and perks and xp. Ive lost interest because I can not LIVE in my game anymore. Previously when you played either Sp or with others you could look forward to a night of living in your game. You want to go out and scavenge and risk everything looking for better weapons? Do it. You want to spend the night finishing up a part of your base, or rearranging some stuff in the base to make it bigger or better, cool. Maybe you want to go down to your mine and continue working on some ore. Relieve some stress, grab that pick and head down and have at it.
Want to farm a bit, plant some seeds, drop some fertilizer and maybe increase the size of it. Ok have to head out and find some seeds to bring home so we can replant. Cook some food so we have a nice storage full of what we need? Sweet I'll go grab some animals and cook up a bunch of stuff.

Now it's all level locked, it's all focused on killing zombies ONLY and a lot of the freedom to just BREATHE and live inside your charactor or your game is GONE. We used to build towns, and we didn't always go and find zeds we used to just chat with each other, or joke around. Or we would help out in the mine. This pictures up there? That is what it represents to me. Heart. Time. Now all we have is a damn RPG First Shooter with ALL of its heart and soul removed.

I SO miss the days that those pictures represent. A scary intense ride with moments of refreshing busy work to help you calm down from the previous days killing. Pacing. A well rounded experience. Not an arcade style Fallout rip off with NO HEART.

People dont have 3000 plus hours in this game from JUST killing zombies.
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I cannot agree more. 7D2D was a great sandbox that could be a more fun action oriented shooter when I was playing with some friends, or in the down time a survival simulator. Like a more tangible or visceral, due to the FPS, version of Project Zomboid. After restarting with each of the experimental versions of A17 I have lost interest in grinding to unlock other game modes and have wandered back off to Zomboid for this fix.

 
memories are so fine... but damn... it reminds me we are getting older. now i have to explore caves with a candy cane again. :)

 
Right. Do you want to know why Im not playing anymore? Forget all the other complaints like diggers and perks and xp. Ive lost interest because I can not LIVE in my game anymore. Previously when you played either Sp or with others you could look forward to a night of living in your game. You want to go out and scavenge and risk everything looking for better weapons? Do it. You want to spend the night finishing up a part of your base, or rearranging some stuff in the base to make it bigger or better, cool. Maybe you want to go down to your mine and continue working on some ore. Relieve some stress, grab that pick and head down and have at it.
Want to farm a bit, plant some seeds, drop some fertilizer and maybe increase the size of it. Ok have to head out and find some seeds to bring home so we can replant. Cook some food so we have a nice storage full of what we need? Sweet I'll go grab some animals and cook up a bunch of stuff.

Now it's all level locked, it's all focused on killing zombies ONLY and a lot of the freedom to just BREATHE and live inside your charactor or your game is GONE. We used to build towns, and we didn't always go and find zeds we used to just chat with each other, or joke around. Or we would help out in the mine. This pictures up there? That is what it represents to me. Heart. Time. Now all we have is a damn RPG First Shooter with ALL of its heart and soul removed.

I SO miss the days that those pictures represent. A scary intense ride with moments of refreshing busy work to help you calm down from the previous days killing. Pacing. A well rounded experience. Not an arcade style Fallout rip off with NO HEART.

People dont have 3000 plus hours in this game from JUST killing zombies.
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I cannot agree more. 7D2D was a great sandbox that could be a more fun action oriented shooter when I was playing with some friends, or in the down time a survival simulator. Like a more tangible or visceral, due to the FPS, version of Project Zomboid. After restarting with each of the experimental versions of A17 I have lost interest in grinding to unlock other game modes and have wandered back off to Zomboid for this fix.
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You know what? All my other complaints... about bad gamedesign with perkpoints and levelgates and tediousness and grinding and stamina loss...

they all are compacted in your statements.

The game isn't fun anymore. It is work. Calculated work. No real enjoyment.

Every dungeon poi has falling floors and hidden zombies. So exploring them becomes a slow crawl instead of a wonderful exploration of new places.

Its not a world I would like to live in with friends anymore. Maybe after I reach lvl 100 (never enjoyed it enough to play past day 25) I have unlocked enough fun to feel free and to enjoy the game again, but as I'm not allowed to have fun until I do the grind, it feels more like im 10y.o. again and my parents say "no you cant do that until you are older!" or "work for 2 hours and you can play for 30 minutes".

But I mean... fallout doesnt give you the option to build a base or to explore stuff or level up until you have reached diamond city and found your son...

OH WAIT even they allowed you to do stuff from the getgo.

Oh well... A16.4 is still here and a lot of great mods are there as well...

Maybe we should get together and make A16 servers :D

 
Right. Do you want to know why Im not playing anymore? Forget all the other complaints like diggers and perks and xp. Ive lost interest because I can not LIVE in my game anymore. Previously when you played either Sp or with others you could look forward to a night of living in your game. You want to go out and scavenge and risk everything looking for better weapons? Do it. You want to spend the night finishing up a part of your base, or rearranging some stuff in the base to make it bigger or better, cool. Maybe you want to go down to your mine and continue working on some ore. Relieve some stress, grab that pick and head down and have at it.
Want to farm a bit, plant some seeds, drop some fertilizer and maybe increase the size of it. Ok have to head out and find some seeds to bring home so we can replant. Cook some food so we have a nice storage full of what we need? Sweet I'll go grab some animals and cook up a bunch of stuff.

Now it's all level locked, it's all focused on killing zombies ONLY and a lot of the freedom to just BREATHE and live inside your charactor or your game is GONE. We used to build towns, and we didn't always go and find zeds we used to just chat with each other, or joke around. Or we would help out in the mine. This pictures up there? That is what it represents to me. Heart. Time. Now all we have is a damn RPG First Shooter with ALL of its heart and soul removed.

I SO miss the days that those pictures represent. A scary intense ride with moments of refreshing busy work to help you calm down from the previous days killing. Pacing. A well rounded experience. Not an arcade style Fallout rip off with NO HEART.

People dont have 3000 plus hours in this game from JUST killing zombies.
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I couldn't have said it better myself, There always was something I felt was missing from a17 but I could never put my finger on exactly what it was, and you nailed it. The game just feels sort of like a soulless husk of what it was for me. I mostly like a17 for the weapon mod system and the graphical overhaul, but I feel a lot of the rest of the game kinda took a step or 2 backwards.

 
Underground needs a lot of work IMO
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yes it does... i just hope the complaints about people going underground doesnt hamper that. after all, the pimp level designers have added cave pois and bunkers ....

i love my single player game... no cheaters and no one telling me how to play in a game that already has many ways to play. :)

 
yes it does... i just hope the complaints about people going underground doesnt hamper that. after all, the pimp level designers have added cave pois and bunkers ....
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I think if people wanna be mole people they should be allowed to imo, its a playstyle choice. I used to build my bases deep underground not to avoid the hordes, but mostly because I hate the SI system, that deep down it generally won't collpase unless you do something really stupid. I'd make a 9x11 block box 3 high, and then knock out the floor/cieling/walls 1 block in, and put upgraded wood frames there just to make it look prettier. Hay bales on the end of a drop tunnel, and a Hatchevator beside it to get out. Usually in the desert biome due to how much easier it was to dig thru sand, could make this base even with a stone shovel easly.

I mean sure I could see the issue on a pvp server, but again 7dtd was made for sp/co-op not for pvp gankfests in the first place.

 
I couldn't have said it better myself, There always was something I felt was missing from a17 but I could never put my finger on exactly what it was, and you nailed it. The game just feels sort of like a soulless husk of what it was for me. I mostly like a17 for the weapon mod system and the graphical overhaul, but I feel a lot of the rest of the game kinda took a step or 2 backwards.
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Its a numbers game now. The soul is gone because everything has to have a mathematical certainty. No RNG, no things left up to chance. Put a number on it and tell us when it happens. We can have certainties but we can also have random experiences.

Go ahead and restart the game in 17. Every time its the same choices. Even if you mix it up you're almost squeezed into certain choices. Now go play 16 and below. restart 4 times. Everytime it will be a unique start.

Diggers are here to stay Im sure so fine then. But couldnt we do underground threats in a different way? Gases? Air? Filtration systems? Imagine if you HAD to have an air system to the surface and zombies attacked THAT. Then youd be forced to come up and defend but you can still build a viable underground hideout. Im no fan of underground hiding but whats going on now was definitely not the answer.

 
Its a numbers game now. The soul is gone [...]yup

Go ahead and restart the game in 17. Every time its the same choices. Even if you mix it up you're almost squeezed into certain choices. Now go play 16 and below. restart 4 times. Everytime it will be a unique start.

sooo true!!!

Diggers are here to stay Im sure so fine then. But couldnt we do underground threats in a different way? Gases? Air? Filtration systems? Imagine if you HAD to have an air system to the surface and zombies attacked THAT. Then youd be forced to come up and defend but you can still build a viable underground hideout. Im no fan of underground hiding but whats going on now was definitely not the answer.
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100% agreed. I was one of those who advertised for underground threats. I would have liked air filtration, or other kinds of threats... but I'm fine with digging zombies.

Other threats include zombies in the earth, sun deprivation, lowering wellness while underground (oh wait... thats gone too)

those would give the game a bit of soul back (obstacle, overcoming it WITHOUT killing 300 more zombies)

 
Right. Do you want to know why Im not playing anymore? Forget all the other complaints like diggers and perks and xp. Ive lost interest because I can not LIVE in my game anymore. Previously when you played either Sp or with others you could look forward to a night of living in your game. You want to go out and scavenge and risk everything looking for better weapons? Do it. You want to spend the night finishing up a part of your base, or rearranging some stuff in the base to make it bigger or better, cool. Maybe you want to go down to your mine and continue working on some ore. Relieve some stress, grab that pick and head down and have at it.
Want to farm a bit, plant some seeds, drop some fertilizer and maybe increase the size of it. Ok have to head out and find some seeds to bring home so we can replant. Cook some food so we have a nice storage full of what we need? Sweet I'll go grab some animals and cook up a bunch of stuff.

Now it's all level locked, it's all focused on killing zombies ONLY and a lot of the freedom to just BREATHE and live inside your charactor or your game is GONE. We used to build towns, and we didn't always go and find zeds we used to just chat with each other, or joke around. Or we would help out in the mine. This pictures up there? That is what it represents to me. Heart. Time. Now all we have is a damn RPG First Shooter with ALL of its heart and soul removed.

I SO miss the days that those pictures represent. A scary intense ride with moments of refreshing busy work to help you calm down from the previous days killing. Pacing. A well rounded experience. Not an arcade style Fallout rip off with NO HEART.

People dont have 3000 plus hours in this game from JUST killing zombies.
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Yeah I have to agree with this.

As much as I like A17's changes to many different things, it's the core game that's lost something.

Not just here, many other large developers are making the same mistakes.

It's like they all decided to make the same game.

Just look at the stock prices of all the AAA developers.

Everyone is struggling.

7DTD had it right in A16.

It just needed some upgrades and tweaking..... and colonies... and maybe a SP story line.

Then it would have been perfect.

 
I only started playing at A16 but just reading through this thread makes me even more disappointed about the direction the game has gone. Removal of more extensive caves, bedrock depth drastically reduced, zombies that can sense you 30+ blocks down and dig holes all through the surface...Why? The thread title is really on point...it's such a waste. I'm not against digging unlimited distances on horde nights or digging in general, but they shouldn't be able to sense you THAT far down on normal days. SI could be easily solved by making random genned caves out of high SI blocks that when mined give you a lower SI materials so you can't exploit with them. So many things could be re-added with easy workarounds, it isn't that they are inherently broken, it seems like either they haven't gotten around to re-adding them or they simply don't want people playing underground. I hope it is just the former...but given how many versions ago cave systems+tunnels were...ugh.

 
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