Working on a Custom Straight Gateway Tile

[Svarii]

Tiles can only be 150x150 no bigger no smaller

I started with 150 x 150 and while trying to fix it without any idea what was wrong, I decided hey, let's try 200x200, just cause.  And no, that did not fix the problem, it was a combination of multiple issues.  While it likley should be 150x150.

200x200 did spawn in the RWG as a gateway tile.

On closer inspection, it seems the game chopped off the east and north side of the tile to make it 150x150.  Still doesn't explain the misaligned road?  I just looked at it, it's aligned.

 

[Svarii]

@stallionsden  Thank you.  Much appreciated!

Almost fixed.

 

[Riamus]

If it is chopping off part of the tile, then it may be misaligning the road due to that.  The tile says the road is at a specific point, but then the tile is truncated but isn't recalculating where the road should be.  Just a guess, though.  Tiles should definitely be 150x150 as that's what the game uses.

 

[Svarii]

Yup!  It was also chopping off the roadexit as well.  That combined with forgetting to update the imposter caused some really weird spawns lol.

I just added a water tower and dock part (first prefab I've used a vanilla part)  I do prefer to make everything from scratch, but I'm hoping if I start doing this, my tiles will blend in better with the rest of the game.

 

[zztong]

While it likley should be 150x150. ... 200x200 did spawn in the RWG as a gateway tile

I'm not sure why, but I'll guess that when it comes to a Wilderness placement along a road it placed, but at 200x200 it will either be ignored or cause problems when it comes to being placed as the entrance to a settlement.

The spec to meet says 150x150. Anything different risks not being usable in the future even if it places today.

Yup!  It was also chopping off the roadexit as well.

Oh, interesting. So if I understand what happened, it was being truncated and that messed up the centering?

I just added a water tower and dock part (first prefab I've used a vanilla part)  I do prefer to make everything from scratch, but I'm hoping if I start doing this, my tiles will blend in better with the rest of the game.

Yes, I've come to like making Tiles. The vanilla game comes with too few and you can make meaningful changes to the world with Tiles. I'm glad you're having fun with them.

Have you played with "Parts"?

You can put one or more POI Markers on that Tile and RWG will place a randomized POI(s) on your Tile if you wanted.

 

[Svarii]

I'm not sure why, but I'll guess that when it comes to a Wilderness placement along a road it placed, but at 200x200 it will either be ignored or cause problems when it comes to being placed as the entrance to a settlement.

The spec to meet says 150x150. Anything different risks not being usable in the future even if it places today.

I've seen a few times that apparently people have gotten 200x200 tiles to work.  That's why I tried it.  Looks cropped to me.

Oh, interesting. So if I understand what happened, it was being truncated and that messed up the centering?

That's my best guess, though still not sure why the road tried to connect at all if that was the case.

Yes, I've come to like making Tiles. The vanilla game comes with too few and you can make meaningful changes to the world with Tiles. I'm glad you're having fun with them.

Does it really not have that many?  I'll have to take a closer look!

Have you played with "Parts"?

You can put one or more POI Markers on that Tile and RWG will place a randomized POI(s) on your Tile if you wanted.

I have not yet done anything with parts.  I've known about them for a couple of months now.  Just haven't made the time to play with them.  I could do some very interesting things with those and a lot of time.

 

[stallionsden]

I've seen a few times that apparently people have gotten 200x200 tiles to work.  That's why I tried it.  Looks cropped to me.

That's my best guess, though still not sure why the road tried to connect at all if that was the case.

Does it really not have that many?  I'll have to take a closer look!

I have not yet done anything with parts.  I've known about them for a couple of months now.  Just haven't made the time to play with them.  I could do some very interesting things with those and a lot of time.

No one has got 200x200 to work  in rwg.

This is exactly what happens when you do 200x200 I tried myself. 150x150 is it  

 

[Riamus]

I've seen a few times that apparently people have gotten 200x200 tiles to work.  That's why I tried it.  Looks cropped to me.

That's my best guess, though still not sure why the road tried to connect at all if that was the case.

Does it really not have that many?  I'll have to take a closer look!

I have not yet done anything with parts.  I've known about them for a couple of months now.  Just haven't made the time to play with them.  I could do some very interesting things with those and a lot of time.

People have gotten 200x200 POI to work.  I haven't seen anyone say a 200x200 tile works.  And it really shouldn't, because it wouldn't line up correctly with the vanilla 150x150 tiles.  All tiles really need to be the same size with how the game places them.  Now... you *could* manually place a larger tile.  But that's not the same thing.  As you've seen, it's truncating your tile to fit the required size, which can cause various problems like you've noticed.

I'm guessing that RWG will always attempt to connect a road to a gateway tile, though that may not be correct.  It probably just connected to the center of the gateway tile's edge since it had no exit.

Vanilla comes with 9 gateway tiles and 47 regular tiles unless I counted wrong.  Generally, you have 1 tile for each tile type for each district.  Each district has corner, intersection, straight, cap, t for types.  You will always have at least 1 for each of those.  In some cases, there are extras.  That might seem like it's a good number, but it really is very low when you are trying to get a more random map.  More tiles are a huge benefit.

Parts are very nice to see used.  They allow a POI to not be exactly the same every time you see it.  Similar to how a vehicle on a POI can sometimes be whole or broken or not there, and can be different vehicles to give variety, you can do the same for any parts.  It could allow a few different looking water towers (since you added one) to appear so it's not always the same one.  Or you could have a variety of different sheds appear to give variety.  Parts can really make a significant difference in how a POI looks from game to game or even just different placements on the same map.  You can use them sparingly to give a minor change, or you can go all out and make your POI filled with parts that allow it to look very different each time.  It would be possible to even make a house/building use parts for each room to allow for different layouts in each room, though you'd need to keep the same doors to avoid problems getting between rooms.  I don't think I've seen anyone get that in depth with parts, but I would love to see that kind of creativity with parts as it would make a POI seem almost like a different POI each time you see it.   

 

[Svarii]

Someone finally voted TNT the Bridge! XD

Sure thing buddy!!

In new RWG map, I tried all kinds of explosives and most did barley anything at all.  So I busted out the HP Rockets and started blasting support pillars, as well as shooting right into the side so I didn't get too bored.  30+ rockets later this is the result.

Sorry to disappoint you.  This bridge has excellent stability apparently.

 I don't think I've seen anyone get that in depth with parts, but I would love to see that kind of creativity with parts as it would make a POI seem almost like a different POI each time you see it.   

Are you challenging me?  Challenge accept!  This turtle will do that and much much more, eventually.  I'm slow..  I'm going to make something so stupid it will be awesome.

(I have yet to try to make a tile with markers for POIs to spawn.  I think I'll try that next.)

When it's done, and they see it, then I can finally go to the funny farm!  Where life is beautiful is all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats...

 

[Riamus]

Are you challenging me?  Challenge accept!  This turtle will do that and much much more, eventually.  I'm slow..  I'm going to make something so stupid it will be awesome.

No, but I will. 

It makes me think of something I did years ago for a college assignment.  I needed to make a powerpoint.  I decided to do the entire thing on a single slide.  Everything on top of everything, yet it displayed as if it was a normal layout on multiple slides. 

 

[Svarii]

No, but I will. 

It makes me think of something I did years ago for a college assignment.  I needed to make a powerpoint.  I decided to do the entire thing on a single slide.  Everything on top of everything, yet it displayed as if it was a normal layout on multiple slides. 

Lmfao!  Thant's amazing!  It works!!! That's what matter most.  lol

I only used powerpoint once ever.  Once I realized it accepted code.  I found a Jeopardy Game someone already made edited all the questions to match my class and told the teacher my group would be going last.

Idk if that class was graded on a curve. I didn't care, but I got an A, and half the class did not look happy lmao.

Mod everything!!

No, but I will. 

Excellent!  I shall not get to it then, put it on the back burner and forget about, or get to it in a few months from now, maybe.

 

[zztong]

That's my best guess, though still not sure why the road tried to connect at all if that was the case.

Roads line up by convention, not because of any code trying to make them do that. That is, the roads are always in the center of the side they exit. If all the tiles conform to that design and all the tiles are 150x150, then they line up. Gateway Tiles will use parts to signal the presence or absence of different road features, but not where the roads are located.

Does it really not have that many [Tiles]?  I'll have to take a closer look!

It comes with one Tile per type, with a couple of exceptions, typically in the Rural district where there are a few more.

My modlet adds 50 Tiles largely to districts that get lots of repetition, such as Gateway, Rural, CountryResidential, Residential, and Commercial, but a few more. The most visible duplication comes in Gateway and Rural Tiles, specially now that TFP added terrain-heavy tiles to the Rural district.

I have not yet done anything with parts.  I've known about them for a couple of months now.  Just haven't made the time to play with them.  I could do some very interesting things with those and a lot of time.

Yes, Parts and Tiles go together very well in that you can make one Tile with lots of variations and potentially disguise the reuse of the Tile. TFP doesn't lean too heavily into the use of Parts for their Tiles and I'm not sure why not. You should learn POI Markers at the same time as Parts, and I think you'll really like what you can do with Tiles.

 

[Svarii]

Roads line up by convention, not because of any code trying to make them do that. That is, the roads are always in the center of the side they exit. If all the tiles conform to that design and all the tiles are 150x150, then they line up. Gateway Tiles will use parts to signal the presence or absence of different road features, but not where the roads are located.

Okay, I do remember when fixing the length of my tile, I did it all on one side instead of both sides.  And as you just stated, the road remained in the middle of the tile despite having a roadexit marker line up with the road.  I guess I'm going to have to recenter it.  That being known, the tile name generates the road, and the road is always in the center.  Do I even really need to have the roadexit markers on a straight gateway tile?

My modlet adds 50 Tiles largely to districts that get lots of repetition, such as Gateway, Rural, CountryResidential, Residential, and Commercial, but a few more.

Nice!  When I get bored of building things.  I might just try to host a server and add things like your tile modlet.

The most visible duplication comes in Gateway and Rural Tiles, specially now that TFP added terrain-heavy tiles to the Rural district.

If I'm understanding you correctly.  They have added tiles that have mostly terrain, but not enough of them?  I like making nature.  Maybe I'll try making wilderness tiles with no structures on them.

Yes, Parts and Tiles go together very well in that you can make one Tile with lots of variations and potentially disguise the reuse of the Tile. TFP doesn't lean too heavily into the use of Parts for their Tiles and I'm not sure why not. You should learn POI Markers at the same time as Parts, and I think you'll really like what you can do with Tiles.

lol.  I thought that was the main reason they existed.  So the fun pimps could take what they had, and make 1 prefab look like a lot of prefabs and thus giving them less work.  I'll have to actually look through all the vanilla assets one day.

 

[Riamus]

If I'm understanding you correctly.  They have added tiles that have mostly terrain, but not enough of them?  I like making nature.  Maybe I'll try making wilderness tiles with no structures on them.

The recent update did include new terrain tiles for rural, yes.  The difficulty with any terrain only tile is that it is very recognizable.  Flat tiles that have a lot of random POI on them can be less noticeable when you see the same tile again (depending how unique it is... A unique road layout would always be noticable, for example).  But a terrain only tile will always be noticeable as the same thing.  And because there aren't a lot of different tiles to begin with, those will repeat a lot.

Having more terrain only tiles wouldn't be a bad thing, but it would really be better to have more tiles that are not terrain only that are the same type as those terrain only tiles (I think they are all rural corner tiles) so you reduce the frequency of those spawning.

Also, people like having POI to loot or quest in and terrain only tiles limit that because they take up space where POI could have been.

 

[Svarii]

The recent update did include new terrain tiles for rural, yes.  The difficulty with any terrain only tile is that it is very recognizable.  Flat tiles that have a lot of random POI on them can be less noticeable when you see the same tile again (depending how unique it is... A unique road layout would always be noticable, for example).  But a terrain only tile will always be noticeable as the same thing.  And because there aren't a lot of different tiles to begin with, those will repeat a lot.

Having more terrain only tiles wouldn't be a bad thing, but it would really be better to have more tiles that are not terrain only that are the same type as those terrain only tiles (I think they are all rural corner tiles) so you reduce the frequency of those spawning.

Also, people like having POI to loot or quest in and terrain only tiles limit that because they take up space where POI could have been.

I see.  Kinda.  I think maybe I'll attempt to unflatten a vanilla tile and see how that goes.  They shouldn't be flat anyways.  It only take a few a minute with a couple of clicks and the DEV shovel to fix the flatness.

And when I said a nature tile.  It would also garbage and random junk and hidden things too see, not just random helper trees if I did that.  Always have to consider the player.  Who want a tile with zero stuff to loot.  You need at least trash lol.

I think I might also wanna try to make a whole bunch of little parts for a terrain only tile (with loot of course) and then use those parts to spawn a new tile.  As you said, they repeat a lot and are very recognizable.  Maybe a tile made out of 10x10 parts with each section having a min of 3 parts to choose from on it?  Idk.  (I'll take a look at the rural corners first as well)

Oh yeah, and while we're on the topic of things looking the same.  @Riamus  Should I make sure that all my prefabs have a rwgmixer.xml?  I can use that to limit the count to 1, right?  (If I remember correctly)

 

[Riamus]

I see.  Kinda.  I think maybe I'll attempt to unflatten a vanilla tile and see how that goes.  They shouldn't be flat anyways.  It only take a few a minute with a couple of clicks and the DEV shovel to fix the flatness.

And when I said a nature tile.  It would also garbage and random junk and hidden things too see, not just random helper trees if I did that.  Always have to consider the player.  Who want a tile with zero stuff to loot.  You need at least trash lol.

I think I might also wanna try to make a whole bunch of little parts for a terrain only tile (with loot of course) and then use those parts to spawn a new tile.  As you said, they repeat a lot and are very recognizable.  Maybe a tile made out of 10x10 parts with each section having a min of 3 parts to choose from on it?  Idk.  (I'll take a look at the rural corners first as well)

Oh yeah, and while we're on the topic of things looking the same.  @Riamus  Should I make sure that all my prefabs have a rwgmixer.xml?  I can use that to limit the count to 1, right?  (If I remember correctly)

If you want them to be limited, yes.  But you would need to also format them as a mod for people to use if you do that.  It wouldn't have to be formatted as a mod if they are only POI, though I think that is still a better option. 

I know various POI designers like to limit POI to once on a map so their POI is unique and not duplicated.  But personally I prefer allowing a POI to appear more often.  If it appears one time, way off on the edge somewhere, I may never see it.  You can always set a minimum duplicate distance of maybe 2-3km so they don't spawn close together while still allowing them to be easier to find.  But that is just my own preference.  I do understand not wanting a POI to be duplicated so it feels more special or unique. 

 

[zztong]

Do I even really need to have the roadexit markers on a straight gateway tile?

TFP does it. The safe play is to follow their example since they control the interface between Tiles and RWG.

Nice!  When I get bored of building things.  I might just try to host a server and add things like your tile modlet.

TFP's POIs and Tiles provide examples of all techniques. Mine is a modlet with 200 POIs and 50 Tiles. I use Part on Tiles and POIs more extensively -- well the probability of appearing feature -- than TFP does. They seem to use that feature (probably of appearing) sparingly, but otherwise use Parts as pre-built objects to copy/paste into POIs.

For instance, if you wanted a truck to appear on your Tile only 20% of the time, you place it as a Part and set it to a 20% chance of appearing.

If you wanted RWG to pick between 5 different billboards to appear on your Tile then you place those 5 parts and give them all the same name. One of them will be selected to appear.

You could make your bridge into a bunch of different parts. Some where the bridge was intact, others where it is destroyed. Some might have zombies and cars. One might be littered with debris.

If I'm understanding you correctly.  They have added tiles that have mostly terrain, but not enough of them?  I like making nature.  Maybe I'll try making wilderness tiles with no structures on them.

What I'm saying it that when a Tile contains a landmark, players recognize the Tile more readily and detect the repeated use of that Tile. Terrain features often make a landmark.

So when they realized Rural Tiles got used a great many times on the map, they knew they needed to make more of them. One of the original Rural tiles had a pond by a dogleg in the road. If you were driving around you kept passing the same landmark again and again.

Of the new Tiles they made, they made a T with hills and a Corner with hills. The hills are distinctive landmarks, so those new Tiles stand out too other than the Tiles get different POIs each time because of the POI markers.

But putting a heavy dose of terrain onto a Tile was an evolution of thinking that somewhat addressed complaints that cities were always flat.

What you can do is put alternative terrain into Parts and then let the Tile randomize its appearance, disguising it more.

By the way, there is no such thing as a Wilderness Tile, but you can make 150x150 Wilderness POIs and put Parts on them and they'll be the end of the gravel road so to speak. You can also make Gateway Tiles with terrain and some of them will get used out in the Wilderness, sometimes as a crossroad or a T, and sometimes just a straight tile by itself. But you can't control if it is used in the wilderness as a roadside place for POIs or if the gateway Tile is really a road entrance to a settlement. Those gateway tiles are used for both.

 

[Svarii]

TFP does it. The safe play is to follow their example since they control the interface between Tiles and RWG.

Good point.  If TPF are doing it.  Safe bet I should do it the same way.

TFP's POIs and Tiles provide examples of all techniques.

I never start a POI with the end result fully in mind.  And by the time I get an idea, I'm so excited to keep building, sometimes I forget the simplest things.  Like I can load up a vanilla tile, and the answer I'm looking for is probably in one of them.

Mine is a modlet with 200 POIs and 50 Tiles. I use Part on Tiles and POIs more extensively -- well the probability of appearing feature -- than TFP does. They seem to use that feature (probably of appearing) sparingly, but otherwise use Parts as pre-built objects to copy/paste into POIs.

I should probably download that before I try what I was thinking.  And look at your examples first, since you already know what your doing.  I just got 2 parts ready for my park.   (Starting small)

If you wanted RWG to pick between 5 different billboards to appear on your Tile then you place those 5 parts and give them all the same name. One of them will be selected to appear.

This is where I was stuck.  From what you're saying they way I was trying to do it was wrong.  I'll have to try again.

What I'm saying it that when a Tile contains a landmark, players recognize the Tile more readily and detect the repeated use of that Tile. Terrain features often make a landmark.

Great timing for this comment.  And for me trying to learn variable parts.

Taking a break from the bridge and started this:

A Hedge Maze! 

Trying to make it not look like a green wall is more challenging then I thought it would be.

If you want them to be limited, yes.  I know various POI designers like to limit POI to once on a map so their POI is unique and not duplicated.  But personally I prefer allowing a POI to appear more often.  If it appears one time, way off on the edge somewhere, I may never see it.

I think I do have one that should only spawn once.  But only one.

 You can always set a minimum duplicate distance of maybe 2-3km so they don't spawn close together while still allowing them to be easier to find.  But that is just my own preference.  I do understand not wanting a POI to be duplicated so it feels more special or unique. 

I forgot you could also do distance.  Thanks!

 

[Riamus]

Good point.  If TPF are doing it.  Safe bet I should do it the same way.

I never start a POI with the end result fully in mind.  And by the time I get an idea, I'm so excited to keep building, sometimes I forget the simplest things.  Like I can load up a vanilla tile, and the answer I'm looking for is probably in one of them.

I should probably download that before I try what I was thinking.  And look at your examples first, since you already know what your doing.  I just got 2 parts ready for my park.   (Starting small)

This is where I was stuck.  From what you're saying they way I was trying to do it was wrong.  I'll have to try again.


















Great timing for this comment.  And for me trying to learn variable parts.

Taking a break from the bridge and started this:

A Hedge Maze! 

Trying to make it not look like a green wall is more challenging then I thought it would be.

I think I do have one that should only spawn once.  But only one.

I forgot you could also do distance.  Thanks!

Slight clarification on ZZTong's comment about the parts.  The same name you use is for the POIMarkerGroup (not to be confused with the part name).  Any parts in the same group will spawn only one of them based on probability that you set for each.

So if you have 4 markers... the first 2 are group1 and the second 2 are group2, all are set to PartSpawn for type, then you have part1, part2, part3, part4 as the parts to spawn, and probability of 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5 for probabilities of those...

From group1, you will spawn either part1 or part2 or no part, and from group2 you will spawn part3 or part4 or no part.  The probabilities will determine the chance of which spawns.  It used to be that if you had 0.2 and 0.3 as the only probabilities in the group, you'd have 20% chance of the first part and 30% chance of the second, leaving 50% chance of no spawn.  I heard that this may have changed and now the probabilities are added together and then use that value when determining the chance to spawn, but I don't know the specifics of that.  I think ZZTong was the one who mentioned that, so he probably can explain it better.

Since you're doing a maze, here's a tip... use wall volumes to keep players from just breaking through the maze or climbing out the top or digging under it.  Force them to navigate the maze. 

 

[Riamus]

My post is waiting on approval since your images in the post I replied to are links.  Heh.  You should have enough posts to paste in images directly into your posts instead of using links.  It'll make editing your posts and quoting your posts easier.