PC Wood Crafting locked behind a lvl40 gated perk

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gwhit

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Most of wood crafting items except basic frames is locked behind perks in mid game because it requires a saw mill and even at 30 I can not make table saw as it says I do not have the ability to after building a workbench.. This seems kinda odd.

 
Yeah it's pretty stupid tbh... Challenge in crafting stuff like that should be in gathering the stuff, not a level gate.

 
Most of wood crafting items except basic frames is locked behind perks in mid game because it requires a saw mill and even at 30 I can not make table saw as it says I do not have the ability to after building a workbench.. This seems kinda odd.
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We actually have an early game now that you can't craft alot of these items so early in game. Forces you to create and adapt differently in early, mid and late stages. Honestly for me the less options I have early on equates to a more enjoyable experience of survival.

 
Most of wood crafting items except basic frames is locked behind perks in mid game because it requires a saw mill and even at 30 I can not make table saw as it says I do not have the ability to after building a workbench.. This seems kinda odd.
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You are supposed to get the recipe for the table saw at level 30 with the engineering perk (same one that gives you the worktable). It's a known bug that the recipe is missing and will hopefully be fixed in the next patch.

 
Most of wood crafting items except basic frames is locked behind perks in mid game because it requires a saw mill and even at 30 I can not make table saw as it says I do not have the ability to after building a workbench.. This seems kinda odd.
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There are several dungeons/POIs that I have found with working Table Saws inside. You don't need to be lvl anything to make ANY of the base mats at the stations, and using a POI sawmill is pretty easy.

So Wood Crafting is not locked. You having a Table Saw in your base is. There is a pretty big diff

I agree it's a pain in the *** but your argument is flawed

You are supposed to get the recipe for the table saw at level 30 with the engineering perk (same one that gives you the worktable). It's a known bug that the recipe is missing and will hopefully be fixed in the next patch.
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This is correct, but you can fix it with a basic XML edit

 
I'm really not a fan of the new heavily gated perk system. Despite the fact that so many strives forward have been made, especially in AI - The perk system has really put me off.

The game has lost the sense of achievement that came with progression by doing. It was really well set-up in A15 and it's gotten worse since.

 
Yeah it's pretty stupid tbh... Challenge in crafting stuff like that should be in gathering the stuff, not a level gate.
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So go into the world and find a working station on POI? They were added in last alpha for a reason.

Prolonging early game and forcing you to semi-nomad playstyle is great imo.

Ever played Fallout 4?

A lot of stuff was gated behind levels, but you still could get and use it if you found it in the world.

 
Prolonging early game and forcing you to semi-nomad playstyle is great imo.
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I mean, that's great if that's your jam.

But this is supposed to be a zombie survival tower defense game.

And they've basically made it nearly impossible to build a tower to defend, because zombies will immediately destroy it.

 
We actually have an early game now that you can't craft alot of these items so early in game. Forces you to create and adapt differently in early, mid and late stages. Honestly for me the less options I have early on equates to a more enjoyable experience of survival.
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So go into the world and find a working station on POI? They were added in last alpha for a reason.
Prolonging early game and forcing you to semi-nomad playstyle is great imo.

Ever played Fallout 4?

A lot of stuff was gated behind levels, but you still could get and use it if you found it in the world.
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These are bad rationales. Taking away choice from the player is never a good thing in a sandbox. There is no reason not to open up mid-game crafting earlier. It's a voxel game and locking away a bunch of voxels and materials with the current XP system is a massive fail. It is absurdly slow trying to level via crafting or mining; ergo the player must farm zed kills. 300~ for a forge is quite a lot. Saying "well find it in a POI" isn't a good argument. RNG is a female dog and in several hours of playing and multiple POI dungeon dives I found exactly zero forges or workbenches; just the ruined variety of the latter, and lots of loot.

Killing and especially looting (with the sexy new POIs) is fun but I shouldn't have to just roam around and cruise for zombie kills to reliably level up. I shouldn't be required to grind it for 8, 10, 16, however many hours to get a forge, or to unlock concrete, or to make a freaking first aid bandage. Why spend a weekend just unlocking the game I want to play?

 
So go into the world and find a working station on POI? They were added in last alpha for a reason.
Prolonging early game and forcing you to semi-nomad playstyle is great imo.

Ever played Fallout 4?

A lot of stuff was gated behind levels, but you still could get and use it if you found it in the world.
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I -hated- fallout 4. New Vegas is where it's at. :) I'm sorry though, I see no fun in forcing players to track down a specific prefab to use a crafting station. Once again I feel crafting at that level should be "gated" by materials, not the game finally deciding you're allowed to craft a forge at level 20, or a bicycle at level 30. There are other factors that contribute to it as well, such as the lack of a good reliable source of XP that doesn't come from killing zombies. Quests that don't give enough XP. Crafting and resource gathering giving next to no XP.

Maybe if things got brought down by ten or so levels, it wouldn't feel so forced? Forge at lvl 10, Bicycle at lvl 15, etc.

Of course this is coming from the perspective of someone that has played singleplayer since alpha 7. Never tried multiplayer, not even once.

I do -love- A17, I just think this whole gating business needs some real polish if they're going to keep it in. It's still experimental after all.

 
I don't like that you unlock so much stuff at one with I think level 30 was it. At the beginning you can't have anything and then you can have so much at once.

It would be better to spread it more over the lower levels, I think.

 
These are bad rationales. Taking away choice from the player is never a good thing in a sandbox. There is no reason not to open up mid-game crafting earlier. It's a voxel game and locking away a bunch of voxels and materials with the current XP system is a massive fail. It is absurdly slow trying to level via crafting or mining; ergo the player must farm zed kills. 300~ for a forge is quite a lot. Saying "well find it in a POI" isn't a good argument. RNG is a female dog and in several hours of playing and multiple POI dungeon dives I found exactly zero forges or workbenches; just the ruined variety of the latter, and lots of loot.
Killing and especially looting (with the sexy new POIs) is fun but I shouldn't have to just roam around and cruise for zombie kills to reliably level up. I shouldn't be required to grind it for 8, 10, 16, however many hours to get a forge, or to unlock concrete, or to make a freaking first aid bandage. Why spend a weekend just unlocking the game I want to play?
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it seems you want to play a game that starts at a point much closer to the point that the fun pimps think is the beginning of midgame. thats a non-trivial difference. hope whatever they decide ends up being fun for you.

if you play SP there will be mods that you can use to get what you find fun. MP might be a little harder, but i bet there will be solutions there, too.

 
Which is what?
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In the progression.xml you will need to find the perk (advanced engineering by memory) and in the unlocks you will need to add tableSaw (sorry xml's not handy or I would have copy/pasted it).

 
Personally i don't mind having the forge at level 20. Other things to be crafted like the sawmill will come as they will come i guess, though i agree they shouldn't be simply locked behind a skill at a certain level as this is not required for advancing further, compared to the forge and iron tools...

Sure, i could focus on trying to get the forge at any cost ASAP, but on the other hand i focused on various other things in my playthrough and it worked out quite fine. I may be slow on many things, i may make mistakes or think differently than the most time efficient way. But who cares? Everyone makes their own stories, with some being very frustrating for various reasons, while others are so beautiful...

Either way, you can mod things in through the XMLs (as much as that is not a valid argument) or use mods. I surely will start testing the sleeper respawns soon...

 
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