PC Will base building be viable again in A18?

Brashnack

Brashnack

Refugee
I haven’t played since A16 due to hearing how unviable base building became in A17, so I wanted to know if that’s changed in A18. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

 
Base building not viable? We've had no issues at all with Base building in A17. What issues are you referring to?

 
I haven’t played since A16 due to hearing how unviable base building became in A17, so I wanted to know if that’s changed in A18. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
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You've hear'd terrible wrong.

Defending was never easier then in A17.

Its people who never adapted to change and still used old, non functioning ideas complained.

 
Base building will again be unviable for some in A18.0 but for those who don't quit and who look for ways to solve the new puzzle it will suddenly become viable in one of the A18.x builds.

If viable = zombies that spin in circles and do nothing if they can't reach you then A16 was the end of viability forever....

Please, don't avoid base building because of what you've heard. Play the game and experiment with base building. Refining a design is great fun.

 
Both links were for A17.0 where the combined block damage of a few zombies together was relatively strong. Some players saw it as a challenge, some simply complained (maybe rightly so because they suddenly played a different difficulty setting without having changed the setting. But well, it is EA and to be expected). Even then it was possible to just dial down difficulty or specifically decrease block damage of zombies, or even mod the combined block damage to lower values if it was too challenging.

In the later A17 versions combined block damage was decreased (even multiple times I think?) and vanilla is relatively easy again. It is not directly comparable but in 4-player co-op we often had the situation that we turned off electric traps again because the zombies didn't even get near enough to our cage to shoot them, the traps finished most of them off behind a corner.

Mistakes in base building (i.e. leaving paths up to your platform unsecured) are immediately punished (unlike A16) but you can just put a sea of spikes around you (put them level with the ground though) and have a relaxed horde night.

Naturally you continually have to improve your base for later horde nights and this is where A17 bases often differ from A16 bases. For example in A16 you often built stilt bases, stilt bases are not effective in A17

 
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Just test each version and dont rely on something someone has said-maybe even using a mod for the game. As far as i have heard basebuilding in A17 was even easier, cause you coudl predict zombies path.

 
I haven’t played since A16 due to hearing how unviable base building became in A17, so I wanted to know if that’s changed in A18. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
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It will be different from A17 and A16. Whether it is viable must be decided by each individual.

For example, I wouldn't consider it viable if there was only one kind of defense left in the end. I use test worlds and what I can learn about the AI to plan and test my ideas for base designs.

There are also some Youtuber who have made a number of videos with base designs for Alpha 17, such as JaWoodle and Vedui and Reach Gaming. They will also surely present new ideas for Alpha 18 and test how effective they are against the horde.

 
Base building's been fine and easy all through A17. Once I learned that making an outer wall was a waste of time unless you give the zombies a way to path through, base building has never been easier. All you need is a solid, full-thickness base and zombies will NEVER break in. Ever. They'll break some blocks but they will never get to you and your base will never be destroyed. No pillars, no rat-mazes, no AI tricks.

Simple base-building is easy as pie.

 
For those who honestly don't know what some people dislike about A17 basebuilding, G4K lays it out quite adequately here:

 
If I am reading between the lines of your post, I am hearing "can I make an impenetrable base in A18"

The reason I say that is, you have always been able to make a base that survives horde night. The question is, "How much of it will be destroyed?"

 
If I am reading between the lines of your post, I am hearing "can I make an impenetrable base in A18"
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This is probably a fair statement. I feel this was probably one of my main goals when I played. I wanted to build a super base that could dominate the zombies (as long as it was challenging, but feasible). Figuring out optimal base designs that became nearly impregnable was enjoyable for me.

 
This is probably a fair statement. I feel this was probably one of my main goals when I played. I wanted to build a super base that could dominate the zombies (as long as it was challenging, but feasible). Figuring out optimal base designs that became nearly impregnable was enjoyable for me.
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Definitely doable in A17. I have a base like that currently. Working on cleaning up my electrical on blade traps and such, but it's relatively zombie proof.

 
For those who honestly don't know what some people dislike about A17 basebuilding, G4K lays it out quite adequately here:

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When I watched that vid the first time, I felt as though he was reading my mind.

 
For those who honestly don't know what some people dislike about A17 basebuilding, G4K lays it out quite adequately here:

G4K also mentioned Glock 9. I like the videos of Glock 9 but honestly he always builds the same base design. He doesn't learn anything. Doesn't adapt and has no strategy except "I shoot the zombies and throw Molotov cocktails". He would only have to consider one thing and then he would have the horde of night he desires. He would just have to build a border around the spikes. Then the zombies run over the spikes instead of taking the free path. I tried to explain this to him in a comment but he ignored it.

 
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Like G4K, I think I want the base zombies to be dumb and just follow me around and not bee-line for the weakest point of my base. I want the special zombies to attack the weak points of my base and the dumb zombies to take advantage of any openings they make. That's my preferred zombie AI I believe.

 
Like G4K, I think I want the base zombies to be dumb and just follow me around and not bee-line for the weakest point of my base. I want the special zombies to attack the weak points of my base and the dumb zombies to take advantage of any openings they make. That's my preferred zombie AI I believe.
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From what I've seen so far, there will be a greater variation in zombie behavior. Some will run straight towards you while others will follow the optimal path. However, these "stupid" zombies are not comparable to those of A16 because they have the destruction mode. If they don't reach you then they will start destroying the blocks in the area. Stilts bases and kill towers are therefore no longer as effective as they used to be.

Personally, I like to use traps. I don't like firearms at all. They remind me too much of Shooter and I certainly don't want this game to become a Shooter.

Whether the zombies are stupid or intelligent doesn't matter to me as long as their behavior is not completely unpredictable. Predictability is a requirement for me to be able to plan and develop strategies.

 
G4K says in his video he wants a dynamic hordenight. For me this translates into "I want to run around, shoot zombies, throw grenades and Molotov cocktails". Basically the same what you do in a zombie shooter.
I'm not a fan of this kind of defense because base building doesn't matter here. You can also stand on the roof of a stable POI and punch some holes in the roof to shoot at the zombies. There is no real strategy behind it.

For me base building means that you have a strategy. It is more than building a concrete box and placing a bunch of spikes. In discussions the comparison with medieval castles is often made. These were far more than just a few towers and massive walls. Schadiversity has made a good video on the principles and strategies behind certain castle design:

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If you like the new AI, that's certainly good for you. Some, I dare say "many", dislike it, and G4K, undeniably both an enthusiast and a veteran, eloquently explains why.
"Dynamic", as I assume G4K understands it, means that you do not know exactly what happens during horde night. With the new AI you do. You plan and construct that "free path" you mention. And then the zombies will follow exactly that path. You place traps and create loops, and then they all die. Some consider that fun, some find it boring.

Personally I don't care that much, I usually fight zombies on the ground with no base. I very much agree with what G4K says about perks vs learning-by-doing, and about how annoyingly complicated modding has become, cuz I don't wish to dedicated my free time to tweaking someone else's creative work a bit, particularly not in the regard to undo that someone's design changes to recreate the game I used to love. I do find the AI hilarious in other regards, though. For example did I have a situation outside the hospital, on those pipes there, above the corridor on it's left. I was approach by a running zombie. I stepped from block A onto block B. The zombie turned around and disappeared in the hospital. A while later, it reappeared out of a window on the second floor. It must've run through half the hospital, know it's path to me around a dozen and more corners. I then stepped back onto block A and guess what. Fellow turned around again and ran all the way back. I have more stories like that: This behaviour is absurd. It's comedy, not zombies.

 
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