Wilderness survival Mod

[Guppycur]

I've known and interacted with Subby for a while now and believe me when I say, for him, that WAS polite. =)

...gotta back my boys on this one, sorry Kub. 50 paragraphs isn't going to change anyone's mind on this. You seem to be ignoring that the mod author specifically stated he had permission, when he did not in fact, have permission.

 

[Kubikus]

However, when it comes to actual assets or code, these things can be directly correlated to actual money.
Therefore it is this Guppys opinion that those two things are sacrosanct and should never be "borrowed" from another mod.

Of course no illegally obtained assets should be posted on this forum. I mean, that's self explanatory.

That being said, I cannot get past the executable download required to get this mod, so I cannot provide a local link.
At this point, after having confirmed it contains assets from other mods, I would not do so anyway.

If these assets are actually from the asset store, they are not really from another mod, right? Legally. If I borrow a book from the library, make a copy and post that on the internet, it's not the library's problem. It's the copyright-holder's, author or publisher.

 

[Kubikus]

I've known and interacted with Subby for a while now and believe me when I say, for him, that WAS polite. =)

But it actually WAS aggressive and hostile.

...gotta back my boys on this one, sorry Kub. 50 paragraphs isn't going to change anyone's mind on this. You seem to be ignoring that the mod author specifically stated he had permission, when he did not in fact, have permission.

And you think your one-liner or whoever you back is changing my mind, that it's cool to treat this guy like a stone cold criminal? Well, actually yes. Thank god this evil person is finally gone and we never get to play that mod. I didn't actually like it anyway.

Spoiler

lol

 

[Guppycur]

Of course no illegally obtained assets should be posted on this forum. I mean, that's self explanatory.
If these assets are actually from the asset store, they are not really from another mod, right? Legally. If I borrow a book from the library, make a copy and post that on the internet, it's not the library's problem. It's the copyright-holder's, author or publisher.

When I bought assets for Medieval Mod, I bought the use of them for my mod. Period. Can I make a legal claim of action against the "borrower"? Of course not. But you're also failing to realize that it's not just the model itself, it's the rigging, animations, colliders, sounds, and the myriad of other things that are involved in getting the model to work in game that are in question.

Quite a few of us use the same models (they're free, cheap, etc), but it's our work that gets them in game. To simply point to MY .unity3d file is using MY work, which cost ME money.

I don't expect you to get it, nor do I expect you to try, so this post really isn't for you anyway.

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And you think your one-liner or whoever you back is changing my mind, that it's cool to treat this guy like a stone cold criminal? Well, actually yes. Thank god this evil person is finally gone and we never get to play that mod. I didn't actually like it anyway.

And again ignoring the point where the author said he had permission, but did not have permission. But, this is your MO, so it's all good.

(this one IS for you)

 

[Kubikus]

When I bought assets for Medieval Mod, I bought the use of them for my mod. Period. Can I make a legal claim of action against the "borrower"? Of course not. But you're also failing to realize that it's not just the model itself, it's the rigging, animations, colliders, sounds, and the myriad of other things that are involved in getting the model to work in game that are in question.
Quite a few of us use the same models (they're free, cheap, etc), but it's our work that gets them in game. To simply point to MY .unity3d file is using MY work, which cost ME money.

I don't expect you to get it, nor do I expect you to try, so this post really isn't for you anyway.

But of course do I get it. Nowhere do I say that anybody should be obligated to share their work. Particularly when an asset has been created with the purpose of making money off of it, there is no legal right to share that.
What I am saying here is that when I rip assets from your mod, it's not your problem when I use these assets in my mod. They are not your assets, right? They are the guy-from-the-asset-store's assets. You don't have any legal obligation to persecute me, actually, you don't even have the right.

You do, I get it, have the right when I take your work. The lines of codes you created. Kinda complicated, jeez, I wonder if these things might be hard to understand when you don't even speak the language well. What do you think

And again ignoring the point where the author said he had permission, but did not have permission. But, this is your MO, so it's all good.
(this one IS for you)

How is that a point..? Guess he thought he had. But I'm not aware of what you mean. Did he write that somewhere? I read his text, kinda hard to follow. Very bad English.
You know what's interesting? That kinda noone actually picks up what my point actually is. Looks like ppl think I want everyone to be allowed to share warez on the forums. What a load of.

 

[Subquake]

What I am saying here is that when I rip assets from your mod, it's not your problem when I use these assets in my mod. They are not your assets, right? They are the guy-from-the-asset-store's assets. You don't have any legal obligation to persecute me, actually, you don't even have the right.

This statement is so wrong in so many ways. Getting an asset from an asset store is just one small part of the process of getting them game ready as Guppycur stated.

For some assets modders can make custom textures, rig them, create animations, add sound effects and do other things and if you are basically stealing such assets with all the hard labor put into them from the original modder who bought the asset, created a derivative work, by taking that asset you are stepping on not only the original asset author, but also on the modders shoes.

You are basically saying, that stealing a game made by an indie developer studio, that purchased assets and made out of them a working game, is ok and the game makers wouldn't have the right to persecute you? You are basically trying to legitimize piracy. Tell me now, how modders are so different compared to game developers, that use Unity to make games? Modders sometimes work even harder than some developers to make some amazing mods.

We create mods for the community and share them for free, but that doesn't give the right to steal our ideas, our code, our textures, our purchased assets and acting like it's not a big deal, because it is a big deal. If you think otherwise, then there is no hope for humanity.

Before posting Undead Legacy first version way back in November 2017, I contacted Roland multiple times and clarified many unclear things regarding Modding Forum Policy points and I asked him for advice how should I set up my Terms of Use.

Ignorance of rules does not relieve you from responsibility to obey them. If huannan5300 has a hard time understanding English, that's not our or TFP problem, but his.

If you do something stupid in another country without knowing the law, you might end up in jail, this situation is no different, he stole assets and reused them in his mod and people like him should be held accountable for these kind of actions, otherwise there will be chaos in the world and everyone will do what they want without any regards to consequences from their actions.

 

[Kubikus]

This statement is so wrong in so many ways.

Nah, there is actually nothing wrong at all. This is now you trying hard. I have that effect on people.

Getting an asset from an asset store is just one small part of the process of getting them game ready as Guppycur stated.

I know. And I do not contradict that even remotely.

For some assets modders can make custom textures, rig them, create animations, add sound effects and do other things and if you are basically stealing such assets with all the hard labor put into them from the original modder who bought the asset, created a derivative work, by taking that asset you are stepping on not only the original asset author, but also on the modders shoes.

Yeah sure. There is the asset from the store and there is stuff the modder added. The asset from the store is the guy-from-the-asset-store's property, what the modder added is the modder's property.

You are basically saying, that stealing a game made by an indie developer studio, that purchased assets and made out of them a working game, is ok and the game makers wouldn't have the right to persecute you? You are basically trying to legitimize piracy.

lol
What I'm basically saying is that it's not the modder's place to persecute a guy who stole from the guy-from-the-asset-store, even if the item that was stolen was taken out of the modder's mod.

Pretty straight forward, actually.

 

[Gamida]

I could be totally wrong about this so let me know.

So I am sure I have read that TFP owns all rights to this game. If anyone makes any modifications to the game then it technically belongs to TFP.

So if the asset store still owns the asset (unless I am reading it wrong). Could the asset store legally do the same thing and use a modders improvement as their own?

My mind thinks of all this crap while I am sleeping so don't blame me

 

[Kubikus]

Now you added a bunch.

Tell me now, how modders are so different compared to game developers, that use Unity to make games? Modders sometimes work even harder than some developers to make some amazing mods.

The difference I am talking about on another level is that modders do it just for fun, not for money. So when you would allow everybody to use your ui, you wouldn't loose any money. Would the game dev or the asset-store guy just give out their product for free, they would loose money.
And if modders would just allow anybody to use anything, it would simply enrich the modding community of the game. More and more interesting mods would be the result. That would, actually, also be the result if assets were free and you could legally rip everything from commercial games.

We create mods for the community and share them for free, but that doesn't give the right to steal our ideas, our code, our textures, our purchased assets and acting like it's not a big deal, because it is a big deal. If you think otherwise, then there is no hope for humanity.

Again, if I would steal an asset from your mod, I would not steal that asset from you, but from the guy-from-the-asset-store. Because it is not your asset. And there is no reason to believe I would be in favor of taking things without permission. I am in favor of modders giving permission. That is a big difference. Do I need to walk you through it kindly and patiently..?

Before posting Undead Legacy first version way back in November 2017, I contacted Roland multiple times and clarified many unclear things regarding Modding Forum Policy points and I asked him for advice how should I set up my Terms of Use.
Ignorance of rules does not relieve you from responsibility to obey them. If huannan5300 has a hard time understanding English, that's not our or TFP problem, but his.

I looked a word up, Sub:
jobsworth

/ˈdʒɒbzwəːθ/

nouninformal•British

noun: jobsworth; plural noun: jobsworths

an official who upholds petty rules even at the expense of humanity or common sense.

"parks abound with jobsworths who delight in yelling that you can't do that without special permission"

So for the fifty bazillion's time: Yes, you are in the right. Good for you. *pats sub on the head* I still would like to play that wilderness mod. You can ignore the question yet again: Wouldn't it've been neat to help the guy make the mod legal? So we could play it? Instead of being an aggressive and hostile "jobsworth"? What have we won by being like that?

Nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

I could be totally wrong about this so let me know.
So I am sure I have read that TFP owns all rights to this game. If anyone makes any modifications to the game then it technically belongs to TFP.

So if the asset store still owns the asset (unless I am reading it wrong). Could the asset store legally do the same thing and use a modders improvement as their own?

My mind thinks of all this crap while I am sleeping so don't blame me

While I am not a lawyer, I assume that is not so because these assets are intentionally/officially created to be used in games. So you buy the right to use them in your game or mod. Read the asset-store TOS, I suppose it's covered there.

 

[Subquake]

The difference I am talking about on another level is that modders do it just for fun, not for money. So when you would allow everybody to use your ui, you wouldn't loose any money. Would the game dev or the asset-store guy just give out their product for free, they would loose money.

Doing it for fun in our free time costs us the most precious commodity in life, that is more valuable than money - time.

 

[Aurelius]

If you pull assets from a mod, even if that asset is identical to what you can get for free in a store, you are taking the asset from the mod creator.

The act of adding an asset to a mod changes the asset so it's no longer an "atomic entity", but is now part of a larger whole.

If you really want the asset, and it's free, get it from the store yourself.

-A

 

[Kubikus]

Doing it for fun in our free time costs us the most precious commodity in life, that is more valuable than money - time.

And if some stone cold criminal steels your mod, do you loose that time? You might loose money if said criminal would make money with your UI, because part of that money actually is yours.
But the difference between commercial work and a hobby really is obvious. Lotta people work together here in the community. Isn't that great? It's why I frequently feel sorta guilty not to release my mod. But.. it's never polished enough to justify a release.

What about the other stuff you don't mention anymore, is it ok to assume you understood me now..?

If you pull assets from a mod, even if that asset is identical to what you can get for free in a store, you are taking the asset from the mod creator.

Sure. But when the asset is not free in the store, but needs to be purchased in order to legally use it, while you take it from the mod creator, you steal it from the asset-store-guy. Imagine that happens and the mod creator would sue the guy who took the asset. What would happen? How would a court decide? I say, the mod creator has no corresponding rights and would loose the case. Only the actual owner of the asset could sue.

Maybe, I don't know, there are laws that forbid to reverse engineer a piece of software.

The act of adding an asset to a mod changes the asset so it's no longer an "atomic entity", but is now part of a larger whole.

How does it change? Actually or on a more metaphysical level?

 

[Alphado-Jaki]

The difference I am talking about on another level is that modders do it just for fun, not for money.

Now, speaking as the modding is just for fun, then stealing assets from other modders who prohibit to do it spoils their fun. This is spoiling other's fun to satisfy his fun. It's totally nonsense.

 

[Kubikus]

Now, speaking as the modding is just for fun, then stealing assets from other modders who prohibit to do it spoils their fun. This is spoiling other's fun to satisfy his fun. It's totally nonsense.

And here we are back to the difference between taking something without permission and granting permission. I am against taking something without permission, but I am for granting permission.

 

[Alphado-Jaki]

And here we are back to the difference between taking something without permission and granting permission. I am against taking something without permission, but I am for granting permission.

Even in that sentence, same thing. If granting permission is not fun for some people, then why not prohibit?

 

[Kubikus]

Even in that sentence, same thing. If granting permission is not fun for some people, then why not prohibit?

(lol)
Yes sure. If giving other people permission to use one's stuff ruins one's fun, then one should not allow it. It's one's decision. But I am for granting permission. And being for granting permission is something very different from being for stealing the creative work of others, isn't it.

One, however, might take a moment or two to meditate over how and why it ruins one's fun of modding and playing the modded game, if one allows others to use one's work to create their own potentitally interesting mod. One might find that one can't find a palpable reason. While it might be much easier for one to find palbable reasons why it's actually fun and satisfying to share one's work and see it become part of other creations.

 

[Exxodous]

Ok, Let's try this....Just to change things up a bit.

I Believe Water Is Wet

Now Someone can write paragraph after paragraph, page after page, and spend day after day explaining why I must be totally and completely wrong! Because we all know Someone just loves to take an obvious (to most) opinion and augue it to DEATH.

PS - For the record I think it's wrong to steal another man's work. In any form.

 

[Blazer777]

i guess what their saying kubikus is it wouldnt have been as big a deal if the mod creator of this mod had asked subquake and the starvation team if he could use any of their stuff and had given both the credit for the stuff

- - - Updated - - -

and i know sub quake has spent the better part of the last 2 years perfecting his game and UI as he overhauled the whole game

 

[Kubikus]

Ok, Let's try this....Just to change things up a bit.
I Believe Water Is Wet

Now Someone can write paragraph after paragraph, page after page, and spend day after day explaining why I must be totally and completely wrong! Because we all know Someone just loves to take an obvious (to most) opinion and augue it to DEATH.

PS - For the record I think it's wrong to steal another man's work. In any form.

Yeah but you-know-who thinks it's wrong as well, and makes a completely different point. Several, actually. And then people, as it seems including yourself, insist or at least imply, you-know-who would advocate stealing. And then you-know-who has to explain to people, over and over again, because they persistently insist, that you-know-who makes a completely different point. Several, actually.

And then, one by one, people begin to understand you-know-whom. But at that point, they're already grumpy and don't have it in them to acknowledge that you-know-who was right all along. Well, actually I believe that people understand you-know-whom pretty early on, but it's an elephant-in-the-room type of situation. You-know-who is adressing uncomfortable things that people might be aware of, but not really like to discuss. Like... prostate enlargement.

i guess what their saying kubikus is it wouldnt have been as big a deal if the mod creator of this mod had asked subquake and the starvation team if he could use any of their stuff and had given both the credit for the stuff
- - - Updated - - -

and i know sub quake has spent the better part of the last 2 years perfecting his game and UI as he overhauled the whole game

Hua gave credit, that's what actually started the whole drama. But he never asked. And while it's very unclear what he used of Subquake (the UI was briefly visible in the video, and it was not that of Subquake), it seems true that he actually used a file of Starvation. Seems, because there was a screenshot and the filesize matched.

Anyways, as I just layed out, I am not ok with people publishing mods that use anything that they did not create themselves without permission. I am, to be clear for the first time in my life, against that. I don't like it one bit. Noone should ever do that.

Surprisingly, my points are completely different:

1. Instead of going for a rulebreaker's throat immediately, let's remain calm and make sure they actually know and understand the rules. Particularly when it's a guy who obivously doesn't speak and understand the language well.

2. Consider just generally to give others permission to use your mods for their work. You do this as a hobby, not for a living. It would enrich the community, if your super hard work would be available for others. This is not a demand, I only suggest it.

 

[Alphado-Jaki]

And being for granting permission is something very different from being for stealing the creative work of others, isn't it.

Yea, I and you think so, at least. But fun, hate, pain and etc are relative. I can't say the others also think as one is acceptable and as the other is in-acceptable.

One, however, might take a moment or two to meditate over how and why it ruins one's fun of modding and playing the modded game, if one allows others to use one's work to create their own potentitally interesting mod. One might find that one can't find a palpable reason. While it might be much easier for one to find palbable reasons why it's actually fun and satisfying to share one's work and see it become part of other creations.

Growing one's mod oneself is a bit different fun of that growing community to see other's idea or taking feedback, which I'm sure you may know though. This is like there are who loves SP, PVE, and loves PVP. Each of those feeling is precious and need respected.