• If you have a mod, tool or prefab, please use the Resources section. Click Mods at the top of the forums.

Wilderness survival Mod

@Kubikus that was the HUD only, it's unclear regarding the rest of the UI and I think the video was edited very carefully not to reveal any parts of Undead Legacy UI components, that might be included, that are not the HUD.
Also don't anyone feel, that it's very shady, that you have to contact huannan5300 in order to get the files for the mod? Who knows what kind of files you might get for the mod (maybe even harmful for your computer), because talented programmers can't take a peek on it.

Also there is no mention how he got all the custom 3d model assets for the mod, because without crediting anyone my first and currently only assumption is that he stole the assets from other mods & possibly other games and added them to the mod without giving proper credit to the model authors and it's very unlikely that he modeled all the custom assets by himself since clearly I have seen some, that are very, very similar to some, that can be bought on asset stores.

If the UI parts not seen in the video would have custom textures and different layout, I won't mind this mod to exist (can't say the same about other bits of code he incorporated from other mods or the custom assets, that he has no disclaimer on the acquisition of them), but since the download link isn't publicly available, I am not wasting my time contacting the author, since the first time he tried to post a mod with my user interface included in it, he never replied to my private message.
Click to expand...
I believe many if not most modders do it just for fun and just to create something cool. And I do indeed asume that some will not care that much about legal issues. That does still not mean they have bad intentions. This mod is clearly a great piece of work, clearly unique, clearly a lot of hours must've been spent to create it, so this clearly is not something that was just stolen. Also, the author does not beg for money in any shape or form, so before I have reason to think otherwise, I assume they made something cool and are cool enough to share it.
If there are bureaucratic issues, they might be based on a lack of knowledge on the Chinese's guy's side. Myself, I also was unfamiliar with that people would get upset over others using parts of their mods. The overall spirit of modding is that everything is free, everything is being shared, that it's about the result, about expanding the game's universe. Though, don't get me wrong, I do understand smaller minded people who watch over every line of code they've ever produced. After all, it really are their lines of code.

But, again, instead of freaking out, the issues should be resolved clamly and friendly, so we can all enjoy this wonderful mod. Wouldn't that be nice.

 
I use the things I clearly indicate who the copyright is. Use his things to better reflect the entertainment of this mod. It is a hobby to do this mod. You feel that the infringement I can not post, do not share, 7DTD Isn't the forum sharing happiness? A sharp-edged person can't get good results. Part of the business purpose to share MOD, sharp-edged monkey actually said I have intentions. Monkey, you should see a doctor. I don't understand your rules, I just want to share different MOd,

 
@Kubikus There are the reasons why legal is legal and why rule is rule. No matter how the work is cool or wonderful, it won't excuse any legal issues if exist.

I can understand your idea, modding should be free, though you shouldn't mix up ASSETS with mere methods of modding. Violating TOU and using assets will cause real lawsuit issue.

I recommend to see this or this.

Personally, I feel it as weird that most of assets are in common with existing 7dtd mods, even though there are many newer or free assets.

 
I just want to say one sentence. [removed]

 


Our rules require that all posts on this forum be made in English.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Kubikus There are the reasons why legal is legal and why rule is rule. No matter how the work is cool or wonderful, it won't excuse any legal issues if exist.
I can understand your idea, modding should be free, though you shouldn't mix up ASSETS with mere methods of modding. Violating TOU and using assets will cause real lawsuit issue.

I recommend to see this or this.

Personally, I feel it as weird that most of assets are in common with existing 7dtd mods, even though there are many newer or free assets.
Click to expand...
I assume you think I think that there should be no rules. No, it's ok to have rules. And of course there are laws, that, for example, forbid using assets from the store.
That is why I am saying we should walk the guy through the process, calmly and friendly, instead of being hostile and aggressive. To begin with, explain that and why these assets cannot just be used without payment. I'd even donate some money so assets can be bought, cuz this mod looks bloody brilliant.

What I was mostly talking about, though, are things that come from within the local modding community. Why not let anybody, who makes a mod, use anything that is created here? A UI for example, what's the problem having another mod using it? Or lines of code. I personally don't see it. Maybe I'm undereducated, but it's not like the creator would be loosing money over sharing their work, are they.

- - - Updated - - -

I use the things I clearly indicate who the copyright is. Use his things to better reflect the entertainment of this mod. It is a hobby to do this mod. You feel that the infringement I can not post, do not share, 7DTD Isn't the forum sharing happiness? A sharp-edged person can't get good results. Part of the business purpose to share MOD, sharp-edged monkey actually said I have intentions. Monkey, you should see a doctor. I don't understand your rules, I just want to share different MOd,
Click to expand...
Some people around here are very protective of the work they created. They don't like if you use things in your mod, particularly not without asking them first.
Besides that, some models have to be purchased from the unity asset store. Mods that use the animals, for example, cannot give you permission to use these models. They don't own them themselves.

Rules like that need to be followed, and some people get overly upset when rules are broken. Don't worry about them, though. Your mod looks great, if there should be things in it, that are not allowed, try to remove/replace them or ask permission or buy models. I am sure you would get a lot of help around here.

Stay calm.

 
@Kubikus because of the fact, that there are some serious 3rd party assets involved in some of the bigger mods, that aren't free and aren't under Creative Commons or any other license of public domain nature, but are bought for money and are bound to the licenses from the stores, they were bought from. Modders have spent their hard earned cash to make their mods better and some are better at programming, some at art and we can't all be talented 3d modelers or artists, therefore 3rd party assets are involved with binding licenses to them.

Don't get me wrong, I think modding is all about passion and love involved with the games, that modders spend tenths, hundreds or even thousand of hours to shape the game to match a different vision of what the game developers have, but if you want to be serious about it, you shouldn't just grab a bunch of bits and bobs from other mods, slap them together and call it your own mod. This is not fair to the original authors and you have no idea how many hours, tears and sweat might have been involved into coding and tweaking those parts to work in the game. It's rude to the creators.

Any serious mod author won't copy/paste stuff from other mods, won't make mod packs. Real skill of modding is where you make something of your own creation. It doesn't mean you can't be inspired from other mods, by all means, do so, but don't just bluntly copy stuff and call it a day, nobody will like that.

Why not let anybody, who makes a mod, use anything that is created here? A UI for example, what's the problem having another mod using it? Or lines of code. I personally don't see it. Maybe I'm undereducated, but it's not like the creator would be loosing money over sharing their work, are they.
Click to expand...
There are Modding Forum Policy and some mods have their own Terms of Use in accordance to the Modding Forum Policy to protect the mod authors rights, that you must respect if you want to create content here. While making Undead Legacy user interface, I spent at least two years of my life free time, coming home from work, tweaking the XML code little by little and editing the texture files till pixel precision, I hope you understand my frustration if someone without ever contacting me posts a mod with taking that hard work, doing a little bit of tweaking to it and call it their own, where I spent the majority of the time making it.

It's not free, I spent countless hours of my life to make it and time is the most precious commodity of life and any mod creator deserves the right to decide if they want someone else to use their creations or parts of them in mod packs or other mods and any decent mod creator should respect that decision.

It has nothing to do with legal issues, but rather than sheer lack of respect to the original content creators. Legal issues is just a way to protect such creators from people abusing them and ripping their work and claiming as their own.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am very angry, the download link is not shared. Some people have brains, this needs treatment! !这是病！得治 !
Click to expand...
This just shows your immaturity and lack of understanding how copyright and licensing works.

I use the things I clearly indicate who the copyright is. Use his things to better reflect the entertainment of this mod. It is a hobby to do this mod. You feel that the infringement I can not post, do not share, 7DTD Isn't the forum sharing happiness? A sharp-edged person can't get good results. Part of the business purpose to share MOD, sharp-edged monkey actually said I have intentions. Monkey, you should see a doctor. I don't understand your rules, I just want to share different MOd,
Click to expand...
Mentioning someone sometimes isn't enough. You can share things only to a certain extent, because some things require permissions or licenses from the original authors to be used.
Before making any mod for 7 days to die you must familiarize yourself with Modding Forum Policy first: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?59817-TFP-Official-Modding-Forum-Policy

 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Kubikus that was the HUD only, it's unclear regarding the rest of the UI and I think the video was edited very carefully not to reveal any parts of Undead Legacy UI components, that might be included, that are not the HUD.
Also don't anyone feel, that it's very shady, that you have to contact huannan5300 in order to get the files for the mod? Who knows what kind of files you might get for the mod (maybe even harmful for your computer), because talented programmers can't take a peek on it.

Also there is no mention how he got all the custom 3d model assets for the mod, because without crediting anyone my first and currently only assumption is that he stole the assets from other mods & possibly other games and added them to the mod without giving proper credit to the model authors and it's very unlikely that he modeled all the custom assets by himself since clearly I have seen some, that are very, very similar to some, that can be bought on asset stores.

If the UI parts not seen in the video would have custom textures and different layout, I won't mind this mod to exist (can't say the same about other bits of code he incorporated from other mods or the custom assets, that he has no disclaimer on the acquisition of them), but since the download link isn't publicly available, I am not wasting my time contacting the author, since the first time he tried to post a mod with my user interface included in it, he never replied to my private message.
Click to expand...
Please look at the first part. I do not have SkyDrive, let others send. Do you need me to file? Have you been educated?

 
I use the things I clearly indicate who the copyright is. Use his things to better reflect the entertainment of this mod. It is a hobby to do this mod. You feel that the infringement I can not post, do not share, 7DTD Isn't the forum sharing happiness? A sharp-edged person can't get good results. Part of the business purpose to share MOD, sharp-edged monkey actually said I have intentions. Monkey, you should see a doctor. I don't understand your rules, I just want to share different MOd,
Click to expand...
We would like you to follow the same rules and guidelines that we would like all modders to follow. You can read the rules and guidelines here: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?59817-TFP-Official-Modding-Forum-Policy

It is good to say who owns the copyright, but that is only one of the rules and guidelines.

Until there is something to download, it is difficult to see actual evidence that this mod uses content from other mods.

 
There is actual evidence that files were taken from the Starvation mod without permission. He posted a segment of the Unity3d file names and file size used in this mod, and both the names and the file size are an exact match to the name and file size of the Starvation resources. Some of these resources were purchased by the Starvation team, and cannot be legally shared outside of that mod.

I watched the video, and for anyone that plays the game "The Forest", many of the other assets are exactly the same as the ones in that game. The suitcases and their pastel colors is an exact match. I didn't see that game credited in the notes.

If blatant copyright violations are permitted in this modding community, I am concerned that TFP will step in and begin to restrict all but xml modding. I don't want to risk that, and I hope you don't want that either.

 
giphy.gif
 
@Kubikus because of the fact, that there are some serious 3rd party assets involved in some of the bigger mods, that aren't free and aren't under Creative Commons or any other license of public domain nature, but are bought for money and are bound to the licenses from the stores, they were bought from. Modders have spent their hard earned cash to make their mods better and some are better at programming, some at art and we can't all be talented 3d modelers or artists, therefore 3rd party assets are involved with binding licenses to them.
Don't get me wrong, I think modding is all about passion and love involved with the games, that modders spend tenths, hundreds or even thousand of hours to shape the game to match a different vision of what the game developers have, but if you want to be serious about it, you shouldn't just grab a bunch of bits and bobs from other mods, slap them together and call it your own mod. This is not fair to the original authors and you have no idea how many hours, tears and sweat might have been involved into coding and tweaking those parts to work in the game. It's rude to the creators.

Any serious mod author won't copy/paste stuff from other mods, won't make mod packs. Real skill of modding is where you make something of your own creation. It doesn't mean you can't be inspired from other mods, by all means, do so, but don't just bluntly copy stuff and call it a day, nobody will like that.

There are Modding Forum Policy and some mods have their own Terms of Use in accordance to the Modding Forum Policy to protect the mod authors rights, that you must respect if you want to create content here. While making Undead Legacy user interface, I spent at least two years of my life free time, coming home from work, tweaking the XML code little by little and editing the texture files till pixel precision, I hope you understand my frustration if someone without ever contacting me posts a mod with taking that hard work, doing a little bit of tweaking to it and call it their own, where I spent the majority of the time making it.

It's not free, I spent countless hours of my life to make it and time is the most precious commodity of life and any mod creator deserves the right to decide if they want someone else to use their creations or parts of them in mod packs or other mods and any decent mod creator should respect that decision.

It has nothing to do with legal issues, but rather than sheer lack of respect to the original content creators. Legal issues is just a way to protect such creators from people abusing them and ripping their work and claiming as their own.
Click to expand...
1. Laws. Of course you ... should not break the law. Personally, nothing would stop me from playing this mod, even if I knew everything in it was stolen Mission Impossible-style. Playing a free mod with a couple of illegally copied assets wouldn't keep me up at night, I see it as a victimless crime. But still, yeah, forum owners probably have to have an eye on things, if there was actual proof or strong evidence that something illegal was shared, they need to step in. Not, however, you or the guys from starvation. If y'all believe something is not in perfect order, the right way to deal with your suspicions would be to contact staff discretely.
2. Rules. Yeah, if rules exist in a private place, they have to be followed by the people who want to be in that private place. Because the owner of the private place makes the rules and can remove you from the premises if you break them. That does not automatically make those rules good rules.

3. I do not object to 1. and 2., however, an old Chinese sage once wrote "the more display there is of legislation, the more thieves and robbers there are". You can't expect that everybody knows and understands every single law and rule that exists, and you can't particularly expect that from a guy who doesn't even properly understand the language. Therefore, the sage will be patient and walk a breaker of rules through the process of coming clean, instead of declaring and treating them as a stone cold criminal.

4. I understand, as I said, people like you, who cling to their creations. And since what you created indeed is yours to command, your commands shall be followed, and those who wish not to, shall not touch your creations. Yet I say that it would be better if you would not command your creations and just let them be free. You would loose nothing, not even respect and praise, as it would be respect and praise if someone deems your creations so good that they will want it to be part of a creation of their own.

- - - Updated - - -

giphy.gif
Click to expand...
64.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDafg3fqXc4

 
You realise this is the second time this person has done this after the laws and rules were explained the first time right?

 
99% of the time I'm on the side of the thief, because most mods are just ideas and I truly believe that if the original author's implementation is best then that will be the one that stands the test of time, and since most mods are derivative of other people's work anyway, mods should be shared with an open-source open-book policy.

However, when it comes to actual assets or code, these things can be directly correlated to actual money.

Therefore it is this Guppys opinion that those two things are sacrosanct and should never be "borrowed" from another mod.

There are still quite a few other grey areas, but anything that cost cash is black and white

- - - Updated - - -

That being said, I cannot get past the executable download required to get this mod, so I cannot provide a local link.

At this point, after having confirmed it contains assets from other mods, I would not do so anyway.

 
Purely humanly, - possible to understand Subquake. It's not about the rules.

If he does not want someone to use his code - you do not need to do it, regardless of any rules and your personal beliefs.

 
Oh I see, he had used your UI before. No, I wasn't aware of that. But I don't see much of an explanation, you wrote in your charming style:

@huannan5300
Please create your own user interface for your mod or use vanilla. You didn't ask me permission nor you didn't credit me as the author of the User Interface from Undead Legacy. It's not nice, very rude and unacceptable.

Let's be civil about it and don't make me call out for Roland or any other moderator to dispute this issue. Stop stealing other people work and call it your own.

I don't want to be held responsible for misuse of my User Interface in other mods, it's unique to Undead Legacy and it's the "face" of the mod. Please remove it from your mod.
Click to expand...
Aggressive and hostile as it is your right, right?

Now, special about this guy, Subquake, are two things. #1 is that he does not understand English very well. I think I mentioned that a couple of times by now. #2 is that he is a talented modder. That makes him a valuable addition to this community. Two good reasons to try and make it work.

But I have mentioned that before. Here:

#1

Instead of being hostile, the modder should be welcomed and patiently walked through any inner rules that he might have broken.

#2

But, again, instead of freaking out, the issues should be resolved clamly and friendly, so we can all enjoy this wonderful mod. Wouldn't that be nice.

#3

That is why I am saying we should walk the guy through the process, calmly and friendly, instead of being hostile and aggressive. To begin with, explain that and why these assets cannot just be used without payment. I'd even donate some money so assets can be bought, cuz this mod looks bloody brilliant.

#4

3. I do not object to 1. and 2., however, an old Chinese sage once wrote "the more display there is of legislation, the more thieves and robbers there are". You can't expect that everybody knows and understands every single law and rule that exists, and you can't particularly expect that from a guy who doesn't even properly understand the language. Therefore, the sage will be patient and walk a breaker of rules through the process of coming clean, instead of declaring and treating them as a stone cold criminal.

See, I am that patient person, but after five times I gotta assume that you actually refuse to even acknowledge that that is my point. That my point is not that he should be allowed to ignore and break the rules.

Therefore, here's my final speech of the defense:

This person did not want to break any rules. That's obvious. And since you're so extremely interested in laws and rules, you might consider that any court of law will include an offender's intention to the judgement. It's a whole different story if someone knowingly breaks rules, or breaks rules without being aware of their existance or meaning. Your judgement is that he is a thief and ignores rules. Wrong. Why would he post a mod when he knows it's not allowed. He loves the game, loves to mod and wanted to share the result. When he found out that he could not use your UI, he deleted that other post. The UI in the now deleted video shows, that he does not need your UI. He used it to save time and/or because he liked it.

What you wrote in the other thread:

You didn't ask me permission nor you didn't credit me as the author of the User Interface from Undead Legacy.
Click to expand...
probably made him believe he can use things from others as long as he gives credit. Your TOS can easily be misunderstood. For example does it say

"You are allowed to use Undead Legacy with or without any kind of modifications to its source material. All modifications and/or derivative works of Undead Legacy are restricted to private use only if not stated otherwise with written consent from Mod Author."

Sounds mighty important, but then again, it says that "you are allowed to use" your stuff, and as soon as someone thinks that "private use" includes making a mod and only excludes commercial usage, they don't feel like breaking your rules.

And besides your personal TOS, nothing has ever been linked, let alone properly explained to this person. Only now, the wall of text that are the forum's rules have been linked. So if we follow the principle of "in dubio pro reo", we have no reason to assume that this person broke any rule intentionally, but only because they did not know they exist or did not understand some bombardment with big Officialese words.

- - - Updated - - -

Purely humanly, - possible to understand Subquake. It's not about the rules.If he does not want someone to use his code - you do not need to do it, regardless of any rules and your personal beliefs.
Click to expand...
Sure. Subquake is in the right. Whoop-dee-do. I'd still love to play that Wilderness mod. Couple of changes and it could've been good to go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top