PC Why there will never be similiar game to 7DTD - observations, problems and conclusions

[Matt115]

It is a competitor in the survival and zombie aspect.  It has looting, eating, cooking, farming, building, vehicles and is set in a realistic world (obviously not talking graphics here). And additionally it has really high numbers of Z´s and things like sleeping, boredom, hygiene and depression.

It´s not a competitor for casual players. Those won´t have any fun with PZ.

Also there is a lot of competitors if you are looking for survival/building/crafting. Just because there is no zombies as enemies or a realistic world that doesn´t mean that people won´t switch to those games. People are versatile. This will become more obvious once there is no more new content each alpha. That´s why people come back and will play it again right now.

While there is no game exactly like 7D, there is a lot that are similar enough in many ways to be interesting for people. Just our group as an example, we play The Forest, Raft, Conan Exiles, Subsistence, Project Zomboid, Empyrion, Scum, Stranded Deep, NoMansSky,ARK and so on. And for each of those game you could say the same as you claim about 7D.

There will never be two games identical. Look at valorant. It was said to be the counterstrike killer and many people switched. Yet it ain´t the same as CS.

"It´s not a competitor for casual players. Those won´t have any fun with PZ." that's why i'm not saying this is competetive game - i think if someone want to focus on building probably rather will choose 7dtd or MC that project zomboid. 

But CS and Valorant are both similiar enough that there is no point to buy both for some people. Or buy l4d2 and b4b.  The forest is difrrent because is story focused and "can be ended",  Conan, Scum and RUST are similiar enough to be consider as competetive. Well - i play with my friend in 7dtd , l4d2 , total war and factorio - only common thing  is coop. So if you think in category : which coop game choose - cod, 7dtd and total war are competetive

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I don´t get why you can´t get two games that are similar? What´s the point here? Why can´t you have both games? You personally might not get those two games, but a lot of people will get both if they enjoyed one of them.

That´s the conclusion you are wrong about imo. People will buy similar games as well as games that are different but share a lot of things, like in our example with 7D the building/survival/crafting aspects. Your specific behaviour when buying games is quite rare tbh.

Valorant and CS are a good example for that. Go look on youtube. Many people play both.

And no, just coop alone is ofc not enough to be a competitor. Coop, survival, crafting, building is enough to be a competitor for a lot of people though.

 

[Matt115]

I don´t get why you can´t get two games that are similar? What´s the point here? Why can´t you have both games? You personally might not get those two games, but a lot of people will get both if they enjoyed one of them.

That´s the conclusion you are wrong about imo. People will buy similar games as well as games that are different but share a lot of things, like in our example with 7D the building/survival/crafting aspects. Your specific behaviour when buying games is quite rare tbh.

Valorant and CS are a good example for that. Go look on youtube. Many people play both.

And no, just coop alone is ofc not enough to be a competitor. Coop, survival, crafting, building is enough to be a competitor for a lot of people though.

Why? simple - money. For example  Cod is 70 $ now and that's a lot - 70$ =+- 300 zł (PLN) = typical polish income is 2363 zł. idk if game are expensive in your country but here yep 

 

[JCrook1028]

Why? simple - money. For example  Cod is 70 $ now and that's a lot - 70$ =+- 300 zł (PLN) = typical polish income is 2363 zł.

That means nothing without context. Is that income per week? Month? Year? If you're saying a $70 AAA game is 1/8 of a week's pay then that's not abnormal here in the US either. If however you're saying a game is 1/8 of a month's or year's salary then yes, that's super expensive.

 

[Matt115]

That means nothing without context. Is that income per week? Month? Year? If you're saying a $70 AAA game is 1/8 of a week's pay then that's not abnormal here in the US either. If however you're saying a game is 1/8 of a month's or year's salary then yes, that's super expensive.

It's per month. So yep this is expensive so much. That's why prices here is a another factor. Well.... this depends on country.  That's why i will never buy conan - 540 for game with dlc? nope nope nope

 

[Kalen]

It's per month. So yep this is expensive so much. That's why prices here is a another factor. Well.... this depends on country.  That's why i will never buy conan - 540 for game with dlc? nope nope nope

Holy smokes..... yeah, that is super expensive.   More than 10x what I would pay here in the US.

 

[Matt115]

Holy smokes..... yeah, that is super expensive.   More than 10x what I would pay here in the US.

Yeah that's why i didn't bought B4B - is similiar to l4d2  and i heard that's medicore game but i wish to test this but 200 PLN?  too expensive so maybe if this game will cost 100 ZŁ during sales i will buy it. but damn dlc is hell too - why? most DLC is never on sales ehh

 

[Roland]

Yeah that's why i didn't bought B4B - is similiar to l4d2  and i heard that's medicore game but i wish to test this but 200 PLN?  too expensive so maybe if this game will cost 100 ZŁ during sales i will buy it. but damn dlc is hell too - why? most DLC is never on sales ehh

If video gaming is such a luxury pastime in your area that only the truly rich can purchase a wide selection of games and the middle class has to pick and choose maybe a couple to three games a year to enjoy-- then your market is so small as to be completely insignificant to the marketing plans of these studios. They are not going to make decisions based off of your portion of the market. By the same token you should not take the anecdotal evidence of yourself and your local gamers and extrapolate to the overall population of those who purchase games. A lot of your analysis makes sense to me now that I know the context from which you are coming but....it is off.

 

[Matt115]

If video gaming is such a luxury pastime in your area that only the truly rich can purchase a wide selection of games and the middle class has to pick and choose maybe a couple to three games a year to enjoy-- then your market is so small as to be completely insignificant to the marketing plans of these studios. They are not going to make decisions based off of your portion of the market. By the same token you should not take the anecdotal evidence of yourself and your local gamers and extrapolate to the overall population of those who purchase games. A lot of your analysis makes sense to me now that I know the context from which you are coming but....it is off.

Well situation here now is... i will say is complicated to avoid political topics. But is pretty good but is specific - well people are buy a lot  games  from witcher series  but here we almost not playing in JP games like Persona 5.  It's hard to write about that more.... generally.  Just for example - witcher 2 was strangly cheap when was released because it was just 100 PLN while most AAA games costed -+ 150 PLN.  Btw it's hard to be sure if something is generaly cheap or expensive. This depends a lot even on region in this same country. But.... if buy both game is not problem for most players this means if game don't have microtransations, loot boxes, etc.... competition between both games (7dtd and zomboid) isn't so big problem. Why? because ( i know 7dtd have offical T-shirts etc but. this income is much lower that selling game) don't matter if person will play in 7dtd 2 hours and in PZ 200 h or vice versa don't influence income until DLC or microtranation will be added. So... still 7dtd is pretty save because there will be any similiar game for long time

 

[Matt115]

Btw - more important thing - when will be annoucment another TFP game?

 

[Maharin]

Btw - more important thing - when will be annoucment another TFP game?

Second or third Tuesday of next week, give or take a Tuesday.

 

[Matt115]

Second or third Tuesday of next week, give or take a Tuesday.

XD damn i wish it would happend in this year because i want to hear something positive XD

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Well those prices suck. That ofc explains it.

 

[Matt115]

Well those prices suck. That ofc explains it.

Yeah  i bought a cod V because - well i love cod zombies story setting , easter eggs so even if gameplay is bad it's can be interesting. But V is empty as dessert and it's the worst spend money on games for me. Btw - i had too choose 7dtd or sci fi voxel game and i choose 7dtd XD  this another game is so dead that i even don't remember who was called

 

[JCrook1028]

I can't think of many games at all I would spend half a week's wages on. None of them are worth that price. Well, lemme take that back. With the tons of addons I have bought over the years my complete Europa Universalis IV game is about that price. That would be the only game I own that cost that much tho.

 

[Matt115]

I can't think of many games at all I would spend half a week's wages on. None of them are worth that price. Well, lemme take that back. With the tons of addons I have bought over the years my complete Europa Universalis IV game is about that price. That would be the only game I own that cost that much tho.

Yeah this is a pain. That's why in my country we have so many jokes about HOI4 DLC. Well this is frustrating as hell that more and more games have a lot of expensive ( at least for me)  dlc - that's why older expansion pack were much better ;/ Well for example Sniper elite 5 will have FEW seasons passes ( not few dlc , few season passes). This become to be frustrating as hell xd

 

[liamhemsworth07]

I was checking steam and how trends now looks like and 7dtd don't have any concurency: 

Why? I have some conclusions about both "potential" game and how trends looks like :

First i will start about potential game problems :

To avoid looking like bootleg game need some diffrences

1. Place and Time set - 7dtd is set X years after zombie outbreak but not too long to technology be forgotten. Navezgane looks like most typical WD cities etc (that's nothing bad, even better because people who likes WD want to play in 7DTD). So there is 2 option : set in diffrent places - but this is big problem --> big city in voxel game would be gigantic problem ( try to imagine yourself how it could looks like NY from WWZ but as voxel game) and set in diffrent county make some logical problems - people like games set in USA, number of guns is connected with country so if this game would be set in for example France number of weapons in houses etc should be low).  And diffrent time: 1. During outbreake --> but this mean more zombies that in 7dtd + more human npc = a lot of work 2. 50+ after zombie outbreak but this mean guns will be rare and more focus on mining and scavenging that on looting so gameplay can be slower

2. Style : this game have to be more seriouse like no more room in hell 2. Why? because 7dtd in balancing between be seriouse and dark humor. Dead Rising 1 was balancing and it was great. But DR4 was just.... embarrasing because it's looks like parody.  And DF is even less seriouse that 7dtd so there is bigger concurency. So it have to be dark - hanging people, mass graves, sad notes etc. So there is big problem and this is point 3

3. Zombies : to avoid copy pasting zombie have too looks diffrent that in 7dtd and that's would be problem. Why? because only left fresh zombie like L4D2 or " zombie like" similiar to B4B, MGS. 1. this can be good but this mean zombie number have to be bigger but weak  so number of max players will be lower. And there is problem with zombie variants --> zombie teenagers, riot armor etc can be added but this will be problem to make range, spawner, agility , boom zombie diffrent enough to avoid copy pasting. 2. People don't like riddlers and MGS zombies because prefere more realisitc ones variants

4. tool/ weapons tiers-  Weapons is not too big problem because it can be done a lot of guns types, ammo etc but tools are limited. Stone axe, iron, steel will be similiar so diffrent model and how to make don't solve a problem this mean more complexed system - stone primive axe , stone pebble axe etc but 

5. POI - Well in 7dtd buidling is limited because blocks and there in no option to put 1 block on 4 similiar blocks ( like 1  stone cannot be put on 4 stone block right?) so potential game would be even more limited to avoid copy pasting 7DTD

Now trends and market:

1.  MC is not so popular now at it was popular in 2013 so people wound't be so excited about new game because now more popular are battle royale and horror linear games. Ofc there are game like vintage story but are not such popular.

2. 7DTD is still in develepment since 2013 so... there people woudn't be so wiling to buy another "long development" similiar game

3. 7dtd is cheap so potential game have to be cheaper because it's better option to buy better know 7dtd that's buy not well known game that can be left by their developers ( i had choose between 7DTD and sci fi voxel game - i choose 7dtd and this other game is long time dead so i was lucky)

4. Mod community will stay with 7dtd because.... I think people who makes complexed mods will more focused on better know system etc that start anew on new game

https://cheatcommands.cc/valorant-chat-commands-working-list/

So conclusions :

TFP have to not to worry about new competition but it's bad news for players. Why? because there will be no 7DTD 2 so only hope are potentail DLC or mods to get something new.

 ​

What are tomorrow's lotto numbers, fortune-teller?

 

[Scyris]

I just hope with whatever their next game is they actually have an actual plan on paper before they start so it doesn't end up like 7dtd, where its been in dev hell really not going anywhere for years. The game hasn't gone anywhere really in a long time, mostly due to every alpha they feel the need to redesign systems that are working fine and don't need to be touched. a16.4 learn by doing for example just needed some tweaks and it'd have been perfect, most people loved a16.4 and dislike how the game changed in a17+. I mean top tier in 7dtd has been steel since like a10, if not earlier, its about time we have a tier above that and a zombie tier above radiated. Most people I know never play vanilla as its just severely lacking compared to many of the mods out there. Me? I generally try a game of vanilla or 2 when a new alpha drops, but then I pretty much abandon the game till the mods I like update for it, as vanilla is honestly just quite boring.

Mods like Darkness Falls, Undead Legacy, Apocalypse Now are what keeps me playing, as vanilla hasn't been interesting to me for years due to what I said above how the game hasn't really gone anywhere in the last 5+ years. I mean we still have the same jank as hell melee system that severely needs to be fixed or made better. I am aware the game has gotten prettier over the years, but that new shiny coat wears off pretty quick when the game is the same underneath it. I wish TFP would focus less on graphics and focus more on gameplay systems. In A21 we do not really need new car models ( I mean lets be honest who cares what they look like, were just gonna rip them apart for parts anyway), we need new or better gameplay systems. I'd like to see melee be more like left 4 dead, or many other games where anything that is physically hit by the swing takes damage, yes I am aware of the graze system but that does like 1 point of damage its basically completly pointless in its current form. Also the zombie rage system just needs to go, its stupid, a zombie is not gonna just suddendly get mad and speed up because it got hit, they aren't going to care, or a better solution, make it a option in the game options when loading/starting a new game whether its on or off. I think Undead Legacy for example has a menu option (or it did at one time) to let you turn zombie rage mod on or off, so its perfectly possible for TFP to put it in as well if a modder can do it.

A20.6 has one change I am very glad is coming and wish it came earlier: Vultures no longer aggro vehicles as you drive around. I guess after years of people complaining how annoying it is that every vulture that spawns bee lines it and chases after your vehicle your driving that TFP finally realized how annoying it is and finally is removing that AI from them. Vultures normally aggro the second your health drops below a certain percentage, I think its 90-95%? Just glad now that I can go into the desert/wasteland and not have to deal with a train of vultures every 30 seconds. I mean usually I ignore them till I get to my destination.

Even though 7dtd's has lots of issues I still love the game, mostly because of the modding community. I have over 6700 hours in 7dtd, and 5500-6000+ of those is probably modded 7dtd. Its honestly the only game like it, others have tried to copy 7dtd but it never has the same feeling 7dtd does. Some mods completly change how the game is played in a huge way, which helps keep it fresh.

 

[theFlu]

A20.6 has one change I am very glad is coming and wish it came earlier: Vultures no longer aggro vehicles as you drive around.

Hmm, darnit; have you tested that? I read that line in the notes as "It was bugged, the vultures wouldn't sometimes attack; they'll always attack now", but I have no idea which way it is supposed to be. The mechanic isn't brilliant, but I don't mind either. Just an odd time to remove, if so.

 

[Matt115]

I just hope with whatever their next game is they actually have an actual plan on paper before they start so it doesn't end up like 7dtd, where its been in dev hell really not going anywhere for years. The game hasn't gone anywhere really in a long time, mostly due to every alpha they feel the need to redesign systems that are working fine and don't need to be touched. a16.4 learn by doing for example just needed some tweaks and it'd have been perfect, most people loved a16.4 and dislike how the game changed in a17+. I mean top tier in 7dtd has been steel since like a10, if not earlier, its about time we have a tier above that and a zombie tier above radiated. Most people I know never play vanilla as its just severely lacking compared to many of the mods out there. Me? I generally try a game of vanilla or 2 when a new alpha drops, but then I pretty much abandon the game till the mods I like update for it, as vanilla is honestly just quite boring.

Mods like Darkness Falls, Undead Legacy, Apocalypse Now are what keeps me playing, as vanilla hasn't been interesting to me for years due to what I said above how the game hasn't really gone anywhere in the last 5+ years. I mean we still have the same jank as hell melee system that severely needs to be fixed or made better. I am aware the game has gotten prettier over the years, but that new shiny coat wears off pretty quick when the game is the same underneath it. I wish TFP would focus less on graphics and focus more on gameplay systems. In A21 we do not really need new car models ( I mean lets be honest who cares what they look like, were just gonna rip them apart for parts anyway), we need new or better gameplay systems. I'd like to see melee be more like left 4 dead, or many other games where anything that is physically hit by the swing takes damage, yes I am aware of the graze system but that does like 1 point of damage its basically completly pointless in its current form. Also the zombie rage system just needs to go, its stupid, a zombie is not gonna just suddendly get mad and speed up because it got hit, they aren't going to care, or a better solution, make it a option in the game options when loading/starting a new game whether its on or off. I think Undead Legacy for example has a menu option (or it did at one time) to let you turn zombie rage mod on or off, so its perfectly possible for TFP to put it in as well if a modder can do it.

A20.6 has one change I am very glad is coming and wish it came earlier: Vultures no longer aggro vehicles as you drive around. I guess after years of people complaining how annoying it is that every vulture that spawns bee lines it and chases after your vehicle your driving that TFP finally realized how annoying it is and finally is removing that AI from them. Vultures normally aggro the second your health drops below a certain percentage, I think its 90-95%? Just glad now that I can go into the desert/wasteland and not have to deal with a train of vultures every 30 seconds. I mean usually I ignore them till I get to my destination.

Even though 7dtd's has lots of issues I still love the game, mostly because of the modding community. I have over 6700 hours in 7dtd, and 5500-6000+ of those is probably modded 7dtd. Its honestly the only game like it, others have tried to copy 7dtd but it never has the same feeling 7dtd does. Some mods completly change how the game is played in a huge way, which helps keep it fresh.

Well i hope they will have "Stable" plan for that. 

About melee system. Is simple - light and strong attack like DL1 - and that's good enough. This is not chilvary or War of Rose.

Well for me mods are now disapoitment.