PC Why take out types of Zombies when all they did was add to the game?

[Roland]

Just play the game in front of you and interact with the zombies you come across. There is zero confusion about that. You understanding why Football Player was removed while Biker Dude was kept isn't going to change the game you are playing. Nobody wanted to update the Football Player because he wasn't deemed important enough due to his limited uses, therefore he was removed. If Madmole said he was removed because he had limited uses and I say he was removed because they didn't want to update him and you are confused by that, you can still log into a game of 7 Days to Die and play.

@Roland It´s confusing af. And it´s not the first topic where this happens.

 

[Matt115]

I don't know man.  If you connect the dots.........

TFP changes farming where you have to replant each time and may not get seeds back.....

TFP removes the farmer zombie from the game.....

TFP increases the number of farms in the game.......

We see additional farming equipment in the game, like combines......

Therefore, TFP is changing 7D2D to 7D2D:  Farming simulator  

/s

Damn better to make - 7dtd trader simulator XD

Just play the game in front of you and interact with the zombies you come across. There is zero confusion about that. You understanding why Football Player was removed while Biker Dude was kept isn't going to change the game you are playing. Nobody wanted to update the Football Player because he wasn't deemed important enough due to his limited uses, therefore he was removed. If Madmole said he was removed because he had limited uses and I say he was removed because they didn't want to update him and you are confused by that, you can still log into a game of 7 Days to Die and play.

Well i think football player were good idea - dead trigger have football player zombie working in this same way and taran from dead island. well he could be just redesign because he have rly good ability so maybe riot police zombie with riot shield?

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

Or its both and the reason they didn't want to update the ones that they didn't is because they felt they weren't worth doing since they had limited use. Nobody is lying. I'm telling you the overall reason the zombies that got cut were cut-- because they weren't updated and they look bad next to the new ones. Madmole was telling you the reason they chose not to update certain models.

Now, if they later decide that they want the Football dude after all they will update him and he will be back. 

You guys put way too much importance in statements made off the cuff by the devs as some sort of Law carved on the back of the Ten Commandments.

The devs decided they wanted to update the zombies. They didn't want to update all of them because it was too much work to do so. So they prioritized the ones they wanted to do by how useful they perceived them to be. There are no conspiracy theories here.

true roland but ii think the TFP devs should know what their community is like by now i mean it has been 8 years

 

[Outlaw_187]

true roland but ii think the TFP devs should know what their community is like by now i mean it has been 8 years

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^ well put!

I just hope they realize the importance of variation & how many of us think this is pretty important. No doubt it's a lot of work doing these zombies & the work they've done is F'ing amazing. 

The more variation of zombies, the better!

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Just play the game in front of you and interact with the zombies you come across. There is zero confusion about that. You understanding why Football Player was removed while Biker Dude was kept isn't going to change the game you are playing. Nobody wanted to update the Football Player because he wasn't deemed important enough due to his limited uses, therefore he was removed. If Madmole said he was removed because he had limited uses and I say he was removed because they didn't want to update him and you are confused by that, you can still log into a game of 7 Days to Die and play.

Different topics wasn´t meant as different threads of why zombies where removed.

It´s the same with bandits and zombie AI. For a long time we were told the zombies behave way too intelligent because the devs use them as test objects for the bandit AI. Now it turned out that wasn´t the case at all.

It´s annoying af at this point tbh.

Same with the slider for spawn rate. Got told it was removed for balancing issues and that it will return after that it´s done. Now it´s a "maybe it will return".

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I love that they removed those zombies because they never fit in anywhere.

However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite. 

I love the crawling zombie, especially compared to previous versions, but I feel like that model pushes back into the not matching with everything else territory. It is practically a skeleton and no other zombie is even close to as decomposed as that one. We have a couple of these severely mutated zombies, but there is no in between.  It comes off as odd.

I guess what I am saying is that this transition to the newer zombies succeeded in generally looking better, but failed in any attempt to remove that clone duplication feeling and failed to make the designs fit well together and with the environment. I think that maybe they got excited with the new designs and graphics and forgot about what they were trying to do. I can't complain because it was an overall improvement, but at the same time, I still feel a little disappointed in the end.

 

[Roland]

It´s the same with bandits and zombie AI. For a long time we were told the zombies behave way too intelligent because the devs use them as test objects for the bandit AI. Now it turned out that wasn´t the case at all.

Thats because once faatal started looking at it in preparation to actually begin he decided he didn’t want the bandits to just be smarter zombies. He wanted them to have their own AI tasks and pathing. 
 

What does it matter when they have dumbed down the zombies from what they started in A17 anyway?  They still had to start from a position of perfect knowledge whether their pathing was going to end up being the bandit pathing or not. 
 

Same with the slider for spawn rate. Got told it was removed for balancing issues and that it will return after that it´s done. Now it´s a "maybe it will return".

Conditions change. The game had a completely different performance footprint back then. Both statements are true because they were not made within days of each other. Personally, I think the slider will still come back. 
 

Who hurt you so badly that you see everything as lies and deceit? Sometimes things change. 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Now where did i say lies or deceit? Don´t put words in my mouth. I just said it´s annoying af. You do realize that people take the informations they got and acutally use it to shut up trolls on the steam forums? Saw that a alredey. Guy got called a liar because he trusted info he got from a moderator.

(Not me though, i wouldn´t care tbh, don´t give a F what the internet thinks of me)

 

[Matt115]

Different topics wasn´t meant as different threads of why zombies where removed.

It´s the same with bandits and zombie AI. For a long time we were told the zombies behave way too intelligent because the devs use them as test objects for the bandit AI. Now it turned out that wasn´t the case at all.

It´s annoying af at this point tbh.

Same with the slider for spawn rate. Got told it was removed for balancing issues and that it will return after that it´s done. Now it´s a "maybe it will return".

Well that's true - they are too smart

I love that they removed those zombies because they never fit in anywhere.

However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite. 

I love the crawling zombie, especially compared to previous versions, but I feel like that model pushes back into the not matching with everything else territory. It is practically a skeleton and no other zombie is even close to as decomposed as that one. We have a couple of these severely mutated zombies, but there is no in between.  It comes off as odd.

I guess what I am saying is that this transition to the newer zombies succeeded in generally looking better, but failed in any attempt to remove that clone duplication feeling and failed to make the designs fit well together and with the environment. I think that maybe they got excited with the new designs and graphics and forgot about what they were trying to do. I can't complain because it was an overall improvement, but at the same time, I still feel a little disappointed in the end.

New models looks too much  like rage 2 that game with serious setting.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

New models looks too much  like rage 2 that game with serious setting.

 
I don't get Rage 2 vibes at all. I imagine that in the near future the players, traders, and bandits might resemble Rage 2 characters, but I'm not seeing that with the zombies.

 

[Roland]

Now where did i say lies or deceit? Don´t put words in my mouth. I just said it´s annoying af. You do realize that people take the informations they got and acutally use it to shut up trolls on the steam forums? Saw that a alredey. Guy got called a liar because he trusted info he got from a moderator.

(Not me though, i wouldn´t care tbh, don´t give a F what the internet thinks of me)

Apologies. It was JCrook that brought up lies and I confused the two of you. As for winning debates on Steam, it's impossible because trolls don't care about the truth or logic. They just want to burn the world. Also, things sometimes really do change and what was planned at one point becomes obsolete. If that gives trolls ammunition to headshot fanboys well...maybe those fanboys should just report those trolls instead of getting into it with them.

I also apologize for the "Who hurt you" snark.

 

[Stradivar]

Zombies are free to amble any distance. 

They are mindless. Like insects. 

Any lost soul could and should be encountered at any location. 

 

[PoppaSmirk]

I love that they removed those zombies because they never fit in anywhere.

However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite. 

So,  I am not a coder or a 3D graphics designer by any means,  My coding knowledge  went toward the "obsolete" pile with DHTML.  But I have often wondered,  How much of a coding issue it would be,  to have a base model zombie,  Lets say  The Fat Cop.  Right now He looks fairly "spiffy'  all awesome in his nice HD skin.  But what if a somewhat random template could be applied over that base,  so that each 'Fat Cop' that spawns gets an outer layer of grime or gore added.  Since the base Model would be the same, and the "grime templates" sort of like a new layer to just drape over the base Model,  I've often wondered if that would be a much more efficient way to add variety.  Then the Players Might see..."Fat Cop with dirty face",  then Fat Cop with the big jelly stain on the front of his uniform,  or 'Fat Cop with the blood splatters"

These are just things that cross My mind.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

But what if a somewhat random template could be applied over that base,  so that each 'Fat Cop' that spawns gets an outer layer of grime or gore added.  Since the base Model would be the same, and the "grime templates" sort of like a new layer to just drape over the base Model,  I've often wondered if that would be a much more efficient way to add variety.  Then the Players Might see..."Fat Cop with dirty face",  then Fat Cop with the big jelly stain on the front of his uniform,  or 'Fat Cop with the blood splatters"

These are just things that cross My mind.

 
I am a coder, but not for graphics and games, so I could be wrong here. I'm going to say that it would look really bad. The textures are uv-mapped or something similar to give the impression of high 3D detail on lower poly models to optimize performance while achieving excellent graphics. Layering some flat texture on top of that would still conform to the low-poly model and create some strange visuals like dirt that floats over the skin.

I think they would need something internally that bakes textures during runtime to really attempt something like that. It would be more easily done on models that weren't detailed with clothing and other things. I'm pretty sure No Man's Sky does something like this each time someone encounters a new planet and the game needs to generate a set of random fauna... but those animals have little detail. So, I suppose then they would have to take things even a step further and have the clothing layered on as well. I don't see all of this happening.

 

[Matt115]

 
I don't get Rage 2 vibes at all. I imagine that in the near future the players, traders, and bandits might resemble Rage 2 characters, but I'm not seeing that with the zombies.

Bright colours and a little bit comical ( one shoe only) - well so now models looks more "light" that old ones like frozen zombies ( i mean normal zombies looks to "cartoonish" special looks like more like horror game)

 

[Outlaw_187]

...............However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite..........

^ totally want this!

I asked for this in a thread maybe a year ago or so. You imagine the new cities we have now littered with these types of zombies?! Would be a game changer for sure. Definitely add some tension.

Why was the Cowboy and Cheerleader and Football Player zombie's taking out  ?  Also why was the biker topless chick taken out all they did was add to the  game and small number of Zombies we have but instead they was taken out .   Also why is all the police  officer's fat .  My young brother works for the Sulpher Spring's Sheriff's Police Department in Texas and they are all tall and skinny or tall and muscular ......  

I agree 100%! Who's gives a flying F if the zombies don't "fit in" with certain POI's? More variation, the better, period. 

As Roland said, the reasons for removing zombies varies for whatever reasons, don't mesh with new HD zombies, no time to update old zombies, or the reason I stated above, etc.

Doesn't hurt the game at all, I'll still continue to waste countless hours of my life enjoying this game. We are just simply creatures of varying tastes. 

Oh yeah, I've also protested losing the topless stripper as well

@%$# move Fun Pimps......@%$# move!!

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^ well put!

I just hope they realize the importance of variation & how many of us think this is pretty important. No doubt it's a lot of work doing these zombies & the work they've done is F'ing amazing. 

The more variation of zombies, the better!

true altho i do think sometimes TFP just give excuses i have seen modders over the last 2 alphas are making TFP look like rookies. Im not saying TFP isnt doing a great job they are but sometimes i wonder if maybe the boat should be rocked every now and then. I mean the modders are insane in what they do for example the romero mod sorcery mod apocalypse now winterween darkness falls undead legacy and age of oblivion to name a few Just my opinion OFC

 

[Outlaw_187]

true altho i do think sometimes TFP just give excuses i have seen modders over the last 2 alphas are making TFP look like rookies. Im not saying TFP isnt doing a great job they are but sometimes i wonder if maybe the boat should be rocked every now and then. I mean the modders are insane in what they do for example the romero mod sorcery mod apocalypse now winterween darkness falls undead legacy and age of oblivion to name a few Just my opinion OFC

Agree completely. Those all have their own uniqueness & style to them. I personally like the mods that just add more zombies to the game, I think bdub & guppy do these very well & it doesn't impact performance at all. 

Now I'm not a fan of the flying sharks with Lazer beams attached to their frickin heads, or some of the mods that contain spiders or those worm looking crawling things but hey, they did good on them nonetheless. 

I just love the variety.....& the topless zombies

I haven't downloaded these for A20 yet, not sure if they are even available. Still enjoying vanilla for the time being.

 

[meganoth]

true altho i do think sometimes TFP just give excuses i have seen modders over the last 2 alphas are making TFP look like rookies. Im not saying TFP isnt doing a great job they are but sometimes i wonder if maybe the boat should be rocked every now and then. I mean the modders are insane in what they do for example the romero mod sorcery mod apocalypse now winterween darkness falls undead legacy and age of oblivion to name a few Just my opinion OFC

This is comparing apples and oranges. While TFP adds stuff on all levels of the game, modders mostly work on the top level shiny stuff that has the highest impact but can't work without the lower level stuff. TFP is the car company building the car while the modders are the tuning shops.

For example the new RWG was surely a lot of low level programming and artistic work just to have a city with streets. What we will see is modders using those new RWG capabilities to add stuff like airports and massive mega-factories, flashy but optional stuff that TFP didn't even try because they might need more basic tier4 buildings for example.

On an artistic level you might be able to compare them, but this is subjective and unfair as modders have much more freedom, see the sorcery mod.

 

[BarryTGash]

Layering some flat texture on top of that would still conform to the low-poly model and create some strange visuals like dirt that floats over the skin.

Depends. If you're blending a layer over the diffuse (colour) channel only then you'll still end up with the detail from the normal map (the map that adds appearance of greater detail than the base mesh provides by altering the way light reacts with the surface). Blending an appropriate layer over the specular and/or roughness maps could also be done but it all adds to gpu overhead both in vram usage and processing. Whilst it is possible to blend normal map layers, it's a lot more complicated than a simple blend mode (similar to photoshop's blend modes) to get an accurate result (although Unity does have a solution: whiteout blending - 3.2 Blending Normals).

A potentially cheaper option would be to allow variations in height, with fatter/thinner morphs - thinner variations would need relatively less 'jiggle' though and I'm not familiar with their system to know if it can be adjusted on the fly or if they'd need to prepare the variations in advance.