PC Why I find A17 tedious and bland compared to A16 (very long)
- Thread starter Ghostlight
- Start date
EzunaAranna
New member
YES - In terms of ONE THING ONLY.
THE WAY THAT THE DEVS REACTED TO BAD CRITICISM, AND TURNED THE GAME AROUND, LISTENED TO THEIR FANS AND GAVE THEM WHAT THEY'D ASKED FOR.
On that ONE point the No Mans Sky devs have left Mad Mole and his merry band in the dust.
Yup. Pretty much everything else would be tolerable if the stamina issue was fixed. I can't even begin to understand under what theory of game design it is acceptable to force the player to often and repeatedly stand and do nothing, but whoever is making those calls is way off target. Many of the decisions about stamina seem directly geared at forcing player behavior down particular routes. Jumping, specifically, was something a lot of people used to circumvent being slowed down by hills. Instead of fixing that, someone just slapped on that jumping devastates your stamina, which has really bad side effects. If you're running from something and jump over an obstacle, bam, your stamina is devastated. And who decided AIMING would drain my stamina? REALLY? It's like no one even thought about these changes, much less tested them.
This started with the casual decision in a previous alpha to wreck stamina on iron and steel tools, again as a means of controlling player behavior the devs deemed 'BadWrongFun'. It was deemed improper that some players would focus on advancing tech instead of wallowing in the mud for a week or so, and thus punishing mechanics were added to make it undesirable until players could afford perks to offset a something that should never have been added.
Forcing players to do NOTHING, or adding drudgery as a means of control, is terrible design. It's boring and tedious. Now it's everywhere.
DaVegaNL
Beloved Curmudgeon
Seems to me that this thread shows once again people can't handle change.
Oh, a game is now more difficult you say? Boo-hoo.
I've been playing since A8-ish, and this is the first time the game is difficult. Period.
Do you guys still remember A16.4, where you played maybe 1-2 weeks, and then quitted the game, because there was nothing to do?
Oh, a game is now more difficult you say? Boo-hoo.
I've been playing since A8-ish, and this is the first time the game is difficult. Period.
Do you guys still remember A16.4, where you played maybe 1-2 weeks, and then quitted the game, because there was nothing to do?
The game isn't more difficult, it's just more boring.
Here's one of my recent bases from A16.4 WotW 5.2 (yes, I was playing War of the Walkers, yes I'm a filthy casual, whatever)
View attachment 25511
That's on Day 37, and I play on 2 hour days. That means I've got almost 75 hours in that save, and probably at least another 30-40 hours just working on that base until it's done.
What would that take me now in A17? Remember, it was WotW, so it was easier to get good, effective tools. Maybe 150-200 hours? Some people might want to spend that on one save, on one base, but that doesn't sound that enthralling to me.
So, if you quit after 1-2 weeks, good for you. For me, I usually haven't even really gotten started until after day 14. Now, who knows what day I'd actually be getting to what is, for me, the fun part of the game.
Who are these guys queuing up here to insult the devs ?
Like have you ever worked on something for 10 years ?
Just to get some anonymous guy telling you what you made is "absolutely idiotic" ?
Get a life mates. This game is 15 bucks and there are things you pay a lot less cheaper and don't complain about.
Like have you ever worked on something for 10 years ?
Just to get some anonymous guy telling you what you made is "absolutely idiotic" ?
Get a life mates. This game is 15 bucks and there are things you pay a lot less cheaper and don't complain about.
Ghostlight
New member
Nope. that's precisely not what I said.
What is there to do in A17 after a couple weeks of playing? Grind for a few more weeks to unlock more mediocre stuff? How exciting. This is still the same game as a16, but now with more grinding, not more progression. There is pretty much the same content as a16, it just takes longer to get to the same lack of things to do. Its a great change for people who only want to play 7dtd, but for the vast majority of regular players with other game options, this amount of grinding will only push us away from playing.
Replaying the game has changed from a journey that was different everytime because of the RNG looting and multiple avenues to progress. It now seems to follow the standard MMORPG grind of rolling a new character, you literally have to do the exact same thing as every previous playthrough. You might find a fancy tool or weapon sooner, but that is like an enemy dropping a nice sword in an MMORPG, it doesnt change the fact that you still have to kill X number of enemies to progress.
Personally I have spent thousands of hours playing Elder Scrolls Online, an mmorpg, and in doing so I created 15 characters and leveled them all to max level, which is quite a time investment and not commom aming players of ESO. Mostly only the hardcore players roll so many alts due to the time required. I mention this to show that I am not opposed to long intensive grinds that involve doing the same things over and over. I grinded it out over and over in ESO because there were different classes and roles, meaning each character ended up playing vastly different than each other. There is also quite a bit of endgame content, so you are rewarded for your hard work by accessing content that was designed for your max level status.
In 7dtd, we have no end game to really speak of, yet we are forced into a long grind every time we join (or start) a new game. Max level characters in 7dtd all end up playing roughly the same way. Sure, you can invest heavily in one area, but the way things are setup, if 'A' is better than 'B' why would anyone ever invest in 'B'? So we end up playing a game with this huge grind and perk system that only serves to slow down progression in order to drag out the game. We are rewarded for our grinding for weeks with boredom due to a lack of end game? That's your idea of enjoyable difficulty? This is like playing Super Mario where you have to replay each level multiple times before the next is unlocked, great idea for mario addicts and fanboys, but regular players are going to circumvent the system, or simply find a more enjoyable game to play. Neither of which are good for the game, mods should enhance the game, not make it bareable.
I've played new alpha for an hour today, planning to play more later. Seems ok, there are some movement stutters that need to be fixed, vultures should be removed/remodeled because they look cheap. I've met a dog in a POI and ohboi; i was so fookin scared once again.
Torch is kinda overpowered, 5-6-7 headshots to zombie to kill it. (warrior difficulty)
So far, it looks good :]
Oh yes, i've been at trader's place, i saw magazines to buy. What the hell is that magazine reading 30 minutes buff ♥♥♥♥ ? Pls remove that.
Torch is kinda overpowered, 5-6-7 headshots to zombie to kill it. (warrior difficulty)
So far, it looks good :]
Oh yes, i've been at trader's place, i saw magazines to buy. What the hell is that magazine reading 30 minutes buff ♥♥♥♥ ? Pls remove that.
METALmurderer
New member
NMS faced a class action lawsuit for blatant false advertising and lying to customers... You are aware or this, yes?
Kam R.
New member
Are you a blue check mark game journalist or something?
Who are you to tell the vast and varied fanbase of this game to "get a life"? How is that even relevant to the subject matters at hand?
Some may have some harsher tone to what they are saying, but many of the concerns issued over the last 2 days are quite valid ones and the makers of this game in a way asked for feedback. This is what happens in early access. It's a mess and needs to be handled right. Are you not mature enough to mentally filter out some rougher (and arguably less constructive) posts while reading?
Also: I'm not your mate, pal.
MaliciousMeatloaf
New member
Self entitled much? Get your head out of your own ass. You're 8-25 bucks doesn't amount to enough for you to run your mouth like you are. You didn't GIVE anyone money, you bought a product AS IS at the time of purchase. Quit acting like you have some massive wave of people that agree with you. Last I recall there are way more people playing than complaining. So maybe you guys that don't like it are the ones that are wrong. Ever think of that? Now shut the ♥♥♥♥ up with your tantrum throwing you big ass baby.
MaliciousMeatloaf
New member
He's saying you are all going overboard with your mouths(text) in relation to the perceived slight against you. Nothing was done to directly piss you off but you guys talk like you want a fight. Show some respect and stop with this Customer is always right bull♥♥♥♥. It's not true, never has been true, and we ALL know we don't know exactly what it is we want and we ALL tend to overreact emotionally when we like something and it's changed slightly.
Look at Doctor Who recently, a lot of neckbeards raged and stopped watching because the dr became a female. STILL a great show, it's just some people can't take change. To all of them I say, tough ♥♥♥♥, grow a pair, there are a ton of worse things in life to be upset about.
The mechanics of a game changing is NOT worth insulting others over and just shows that you don't handle your own life for ♥♥♥♥ because you have ZERO emotional control. Maybe stop thinking some other tantrum thowing brat agreeing with you makes you correct.
Two kids throwing a fit in a store doesn't make them right all of a sudden now does it? Be polite or be ignored, it's that simple, well simple if you are an adult and have an IQ over 50 that is...
KeiraR
New member
What about if you know unity and you have been coding for over 30 years in just about every language you can think of
What about if you were studying game programming when you had to write your own engine?
What about if you actually can see they are a bunch of amateurs that got a promotion to masters of the universe by people that don't know jack about game development, like yourself apparently.
Can you say something then? Or, just be a fanboi and shut up?
There are lots of people here that know how game dev works and most, if not all, see right through the bs.
Then there are people that know nothing and try to talk everything these guys do straight.
Maybe we should give them another year to "fix" things...
I'm getting sick of all the numpties thinking they know something because they PLAY games.
Do you? Is that what you've been doing? You're a Unity expert, who's been coding for over 30 years? That'd put you at least in your forties, most likely...and this was the most intelligent rebuttal you could think of? This self-entitled, childish rant? I call hogwash.
What about it? Is it the engine running this game? If not, then how is that question even relevant?
Yay! Ad hominem for the win. They're a bunch of smaller, indie game developers. Doesn't make them amateurs, for pity's sake. They've made several million dollars off this game. They keep working on it, despite the pointless vitriol people spew. That, incidentally, makes them far more professional than most. Now stop hurling childish insults and come up with an actual argument.
"Fanboi"? In your 40s? At least? Good grief.
And what BS is that? What lies have been told? What deceptions proffered? What promises have been refused? What did you pay for that you've not gotten, precisely? What part of the development PROCESS for TFP have you been made privy to that allows you to make a judgment call like that, again?
Oh, please. Do get over yourself. I love A17. I've been playing since Alpha 8, and this is the first time I've had to legitimately think about my choices, plan my strategy, and be genuinely concerned about where I'll be on that first horde night. Are there things that aren't my favorite? Sure.
I think stamina drains too quickly. That is a relatively easy fix, or an easy thing to mod out, whichever becomes necessary.
I dislike the totality of the level-gates, but it's not game-ending for me. I prefer A16's hybrid form of advancement, but I can work with what I have. Without resorting to pettiness.
They did fix things, the quotes are unnecessary, pedantic, and childish. They also added things. Maybe you should take a year off and see your proctologist. Maybe he can do something about how unnaturally your spine currently curls.
And I'm getting sick of people who have no idea what's going on behind the doors at TFP assuming that they can lambaste a developer simply because THEY have some coding knowledge (and no, I don't care how much), and THEY would do things differently. Yet, here we are.
Either find a productive way to blather, or if you're going to be JUST AS PETTY as the person you're calling out, then move on.
Actually, no, it doesn’t give you any more right to say anything than the next guy.
The passive aggressive comments and blatantly insulting posts here are just disrespectful and uncalled for and just serve to derail the thread... which is a shame given the OP was pretty well thought out (if slightly hyperbolic)
G
Guest
Guest
There are quite a few well thought out and reasonably worded critiques in here. I really hope TFP and their more loyal defenders (to avoid harsher terms) will resist the temptation to focus on the immature rage posts in order to dismiss all complaints as "whine" and continue on their merry way.
There's definitely a lot of merit to the critique that A17 seems to be designed to hold players back from the stages of the game that many came to see as the most enjoyable.
Personally, I'm still enjoying myself after about 12hrs of A17 over two games, but I'm worried that I'll be bored once the end game finally unlocks for me. By the time I can cook up 200 steel for a 4x4 jeep, what will I even need it for??? There's a Dutch saying that basically means "mustard after the meal", and I fear it's going to apply to a lot of the content in A17. And judging from this thread, I'm not the only one.
There's definitely a lot of merit to the critique that A17 seems to be designed to hold players back from the stages of the game that many came to see as the most enjoyable.
Personally, I'm still enjoying myself after about 12hrs of A17 over two games, but I'm worried that I'll be bored once the end game finally unlocks for me. By the time I can cook up 200 steel for a 4x4 jeep, what will I even need it for??? There's a Dutch saying that basically means "mustard after the meal", and I fear it's going to apply to a lot of the content in A17. And judging from this thread, I'm not the only one.
Last edited:
Quitting the game means starting new playthrough, at least for me. I'm playing A16 on PVE servers, average server 2-3 weeks, best servers - 2 months. Sometimes I play on two servers switching from one to another. And I prefer play few "short" 2 weeks survivals then 1 long. So there's nothing bad if you start new game each 2-3 weeks but continue playing, bad is when you play 2 months one playthrough, then quit, and start waiting for new alpha.
caatalyst
Member
Completely Agree with OP. While I'm all for the much needed difficulty increase that has come with A17 I particular dislike;
- Gated progression. The previous system, in particular A15 was the best set-up with focus on progression by doing. It created a sense of achievement.
- Difficulty settings pretty much boil down to increased hit points. It makes combat feel disconnected and soulless firing endless bullets at zombies that don't even react. It would be much better if they were all squishy and easy to dismember. Surely it would be better if difficulty just increased the amount of zombies?
Speaking of dismemberment... has this been taken out? I haven't seen a single limb fly off in A17.
- Gated progression. The previous system, in particular A15 was the best set-up with focus on progression by doing. It created a sense of achievement.
- Difficulty settings pretty much boil down to increased hit points. It makes combat feel disconnected and soulless firing endless bullets at zombies that don't even react. It would be much better if they were all squishy and easy to dismember. Surely it would be better if difficulty just increased the amount of zombies?
Speaking of dismemberment... has this been taken out? I haven't seen a single limb fly off in A17.