PC Why I find A17 tedious and bland compared to A16 (very long)

I do agree with the OP on a couple points. Gating everything behind levels makes every game exactly the same, and will get old real quick. Stone tools for the first 20 levels is a pain, and then the next 20 levels for something else, and then etc... It's just annoying and a stupid gimmick that can be found in every other game out there. Gating skills behind books and forcing the player to scavenge for skills has been a cornerstone of 7dtd since I started playing in A9, and now all of a sudden it's based on level. I don't understand the purpose for the change but I will try it and see what I think.

That said, I love the new POIs and the new zombie AI. I actually died on day one and it was great. I think it would be great if the the Fun Pimps could find a happy medium between level gating and books, but it looks like they've made their choice.

 
Seems like people want to go back to the snore-fest that was A16.4, where you would have a forge up and running on the first day, and have iron tools the 2nd day. Why?

 
But why, what was the point of making a 1:1=1 ratio to a 5:5=1 lol
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It allows bonuses to hunting/skinning to be less granular.

If you get 1 meat from an animal and use 1 meat to make a recipe, there's no room for bonuses smaller than 100% (getting 2 meat instead of 1).

If you get 5 meat from an animal and use 5 meat to make a recipe, you still default to having to kill one animal per instance of the recipe, but now you can have things (buffs, perks, whatever) that give you a 20% bonus to the meat you get so you get 6 per animal instead of 5.

So increasing the numbers isn't pointless. It gives the devs more control.

 
Those heat seeker zombies bothers quite lot, maybe old bandits should have had that AI. Stone tools are a bit meh for first 20 levels, maybe some scrap iron tools for lvl 5 or 10 would be nice addition.

What comes stamina, yes it slows game a bit but no biggie, couple perk points to stamina and health maybe makes wonder too.

Hunger and Thirst is quite much handle with one perk point for both, bacon and eggs seems to be best option for hunger/stamina.

Currently on day 5. died once for a pig. Couple close calls. Also some kind of armors if you find or can craft will help quite.

Over all I like A17 much more that A16.4 so far, even it is a bit more grindier.

And there will be bunch of mods that will fix some or all of the progression annoyances.

 
I agree with most things the OP said. But the single most blaring thing is stamina based on the hunger bar. It should be based on a 1/4 of the hunger bar at most for regeneration purposes only, stamina is the single most important stat in 7d2d. Damage to the stamina bar just makes 7d2d unplayable. Jumping in the air 4 times = a completely drained stamina bar, what are our characters completely out of shape or something? Hell, even if you're completely out of shape that's still a huge over exaggeration.

 
I just think if more of you stop complaining about how hard it is and put that energy into learning the new things you will realise how much better things are now. Again we know that 17 is not going to get scrapped the system is here. Work together and learn it and enjoy it.
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Ironically, at no point in my OP did I complain about difficulty. Just tedium. Quite different. I actually find A17 more or less same difficulty, but it FEELS harder because of the tediousness of killing bullet-sponge zombies.

 
Yeah, I kind of don't like it already. I get that they want to slow down early game, but this is just... not fun to play. Melee is overly clunky.

And what is the big deal about the graphics? - too me it looks even more flat and cartoon-ish (eg - the old wood was way better looking!)

 
OMFG!!!! Thank you OP, very well said everything. But here I've known since A14 that the problem is the COE. He's not a gamer. he's little less then a noob. he can't aim or use any kind of skill. So how does TFP CEO know anything about end game. He doesn't so he just keeps making early and mid game take longer. And take away opinions from us on how we want to play.... No, bad customer, you have to play the way i tell you. Now kill 12 thousand zombies to get to lvl 20. I have literally taken everything else out of the game that gives you XP. And Jesus!!! STOP ♥♥♥♥ING WITH STAMINA!!!!!!!!!! we don't want to play 7 days of walking. Revert it!!! revert it and buff it!!!!. make zombies faster if it makes you feel better. but no one wants a 45 min trip to the nearest town. Hunger is the fking worst. FIX IT!!!! Why is my hunger tied in to stamina! In real life i eat once a day and climb 300 ft towers for 16 hours before i start feeling tired and not as energetic. Why in 7 days can i 100% full up on food and before i step out my door of my destroyed base, i'm already at 90% stamina!! TFP do you even care if your game is enjoyable? did you guys even play this game without godmode on? Try it. It's not a game it's a chore. A horrible chore at that.
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7 Days of Walking. Literally rolling on the floor, peeing my pants, laughing. Nailed it.

 
Attitude is everything guys. I think we would have a nice proper communication and relationship line established between dev and playerbase if we also do our part. I agree with a lot of these points but cannot for the life of me want to listen to someone who is just freaking out and blaring like its the end of the world.
Think about how exhaustive this is on a dev team. And how they'll more likely just retort instead of taking your post seriously.
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Don't worry chino, they ignored you too. The dev's don't care. they don't read. they have yet to ever revert anything that the player base hated. they stick to their guns every time. and it sucks because they are not gamers at all. They just keep nerfing the game over and over agian to make early/mid game last longer because they don't know how to make a end game.

 
Don't worry chino, they ignored you too. The dev's don't care. they don't read. they have yet to ever revert anything that the player base hated. they stick to their guns every time. and it sucks because they are not gamers at all. They just keep nerfing the game over and over agian to make early/mid game last longer because they don't know how to make a end game.
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Wow, such hate man.

But I clearly see you are new to the game; welcome!

And I see you like easy games; you can always revert back to A16.4.

 
Some of you are missing the point about comparing with a16 system. It's not the difficulty of unlocking the forge or iron tools, this is fine. The slower pace of leveling up is also fine. It's the way you get them that doesn't feel satisfactory.

Example

A16 you wanted to be good with blades you had to use bladed weapons, this levels up and gets a little stronger with time. And then after reaching a certain level you can unlock special blade bonuses just like A17.

A17 you can punch grass all week if you want then unlock special blade bonuses. There is a huge gap missing in acquiring these blade bonuses and personally I feel a lot less connected to the character I want to build.

 
Attitude is everything guys. I think we would have a nice proper communication and relationship line established between dev and playerbase if we also do our part. I agree with a lot of these points but cannot for the life of me want to listen to someone who is just freaking out and blaring like its the end of the world.
Think about how exhaustive this is on a dev team. And how they'll more likely just retort instead of taking your post seriously.

I too want the gates removed. I too feel the biggest gripe is how everything is so tied to level now. It takes away from the sandbox and replay. Basically I just try to get all my stats to 3 before lvl 20 and instead of giving us the opportunity to grow in different ways, we are tied down to spending points all over the place in places we are not gated from.

A16 had really scattered drunk zombies that didn't want to eat. It got extremely boring. On that front A17 is so much better. I've always complained how early you can just head shot and one hit a zombie no matter what difficulty mode. I love that the zombies feel like zombies. They just want to keep going after you (By the way... looking at your skill points in a basement of some POI is bad news lol).

The weapon mods are really good addition in A17. And yes, I dislike the magazines too. But mostly because I haven't figured out to use them effectively yet. So that is something I will reserve for later.

The pacing has changed. Some of it is bad I agree. But this is why A17 is on the experimental branch? They changed a lot of things and hopefully we can give them the feedback they need to make the game better for all of us. Please try to be constructive. I can post all day on any forum and not get all bent out of shape. Let's communicate effectively and let TFP make the changes needed to make A17 more into what we want!
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NO NO AND NO.

No mans sky was a disaster and got flamed to hell and back.

Result = DEVS LISTENED TO THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS AND WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF TO DELIVER 100% ON PROMISES. Not only that but they're adding new features and content and the game is actually really good now.

Saying that "If only we said things more politely and we'd be listened to" is utter bull♥♥♥♥.

Mad Mole - get yer head out of yer ass, stop abusing the money we gave YOU and LISTEN to your paying customers.

Get a LONG TERM PLAN together and stop waking up and just deciding to change things on a whim based on what colour of cheese you had for supper the night before.

 
The version is aggravating, tedious, [OUT OF STAMINA], constantly feels like the game [OUT OF STAMINA] is holding you back [OUT OF STAMINA] like some kind of ripoff [OUT OF STAMINA] mobile game [OUT OF STAMINA] about to suggest [OUT OF STAMINA] a cash shop [OUT OF STAMINA] item for your [OUT OF STAMINA] problems.

It's been LONG, LONG known that 7DTD doesn't start until you have a forge. Now you have to not only [OUT OF STAMINA] for 7 damn hours, but do so knowing you can't do anything reasonably productive until that magic level 20.

That's not even touching how tedious it is now to clear POI's, each of them with nearly 5x as many zombies as it has any reasonable right to hold. What's worse, is you can't even pick out "easy" POI's. One minute you're banging on a hobo shack expecting 4-5 zombies to come out, the next you're thirty minutes into The Darkest Dungeon, slogging through four dozen zombies with crap for loot praying some god takes mercy and ends it before 10pm.

Despite everything the game has to offer, it forces you through that slog because it's the only way to progress. you MUST destroy nearly every zombie you see or you don't get anything else except rocks on sticks. 7DTD vets weren't born yesterday, and we all know you can't build or fortify a breakfast with those tools, much less a base.

The learning curve for 7DTD was more fun in A16. Step 1: Learn the importance and versatility of iron tools. Step 2: Put in effort to advance. Step 3: Be creative with your solutions against a clearly superior enemy.

Now it's: Step 1: Slog elbow deep through zombies with a stick. Step 2: Try to catch up for a lost week in a game with zombies that could kick Superman's ass on a Sunday. Step 3: Fail anyway because the devs decided to counter player solutions AND remove early defense capabilities.

I've said it once, i'll say it again. It is BAD DESIGN for a game developer to attack reasonable player solutions to the existing problem of succeeding in their game environment. Continuously doing so only leads to a bad game where the only solution to success is, or is close to, outright exploitation of your game rather than 'playing by your rules' (because the rules say "You're not allowed to win'). This is why we have 9 different varieties of SUPER-zombie. All zombies shred wood. Workers and Fats destroy steel and concrete like a ham sandwich. Ferals sprint. Irradiateds soak.

The odds and numbers are so stacked people gave up trying to find a solution to winning and started finding solutions to avoid it entirely. Hence, Pillared bases and bunkers. Now what? Lets keep the super-zombies as-is, let's remove early game defensive options, AND lets nerf player advancement to the stone age. There's never been a point where someone said "Ok, so how should we expect a player to win." It's always been "How do we stop them from winning?"

The game has been around for over five years. OF COURSE you're going to have every uncle and grandma's sugar baby reading the wikis and videos for the tried and true solutions, and of course you're going to have them on the forums whining about how having the solution to the puzzle makes it too easy.

"OH NO! Players are leveling up by CRAFTING. We better change that so they only get 1 xp from crafting/harvesting, but 700 from fighting zombies with sticks!" Pretty much sums up the time between A16's launch and now

The game needs to slow its roll a bit and figure out whether it's trying to entertain us or trying to 1-up us.

 
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....Are we really shining a more favorable light on No Mans Sky over 7 Days to Die? Smh

....Are we playing the same game? Dunno about you guys, but I'm having a blast with A17.

I think the worst decision is the level gating but it's nothing that can't be modded out, same with stamina.

Which, btw, is now easier than ever with xpath.

 
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... does anyone actually recall a Pimp Dream actually going into the game? :f

It all does seem quite close minded now that I think on it.

But, it's experimental however so.. don't fly off too quick.. more changes to come. I just hope it's possible to one/two-hit stone again.

 
+1 to OP on pretty much all points.

POI mini-dungeons. How very exciting. Zombies hiding in walls? How did they get there, exactly?

Schematics are gated by perks, which are gated by attributes, which are gated by levels, which are gated by zombie kills.

This is what happens when you stop listening to critique and only listen to praise.

 
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