PC Why fixing exploits (aka digging and now looping zombies) is a good thing

I still don't understand why we should be *forced* to play a certain way. If players want to avoid the horde that should be their call. What we should be doing is incentivizing fighting the horde. Give us a reason to spend 4/7 days building and reinforcing our base rather than the more immediately enjoyable tasks of looting and exploring. The carrot and not the stick!

 
I still don't understand why we should be *forced* to play a certain way. If players want to avoid the horde that should be their call. What we should be doing is incentivizing fighting the horde. Give us a reason to spend 4/7 days building and reinforcing our base rather than the more immediately enjoyable tasks of looting and exploring. The carrot and not the stick!
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I agree with this statement, but I am not sure how well it applies in this game. The 7 day Horde is the single most important aspect of the game... even in its name. You have 7 days to prepare. You are suggesting a completely different game... vanilla minecraft.

 
I agree with this statement, but I am not sure how well it applies in this game. The 7 day Horde is the single most important aspect of the game... even in its name. You have 7 days to prepare. You are suggesting a completely different game... vanilla minecraft.
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The other half is allready not true

Try next time hearing that during a horde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i9fVPw8Cas

here a pic for better imagination (i guess i should really make a video)

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I still don't understand why we should be *forced* to play a certain way. If players want to avoid the horde that should be their call. What we should be doing is incentivizing fighting the horde. Give us a reason to spend 4/7 days building and reinforcing our base rather than the more immediately enjoyable tasks of looting and exploring. The carrot and not the stick!
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You aren't. You can do whatever you want. But the horde finds you. That is the whole premise.

If you run away, if you retreat underground hoping for them to not reach you, if you actively defend your base... you can do whatever you want.

But the horde will come no matter what you want.

"Why do I have to play with zombies?" because its Resident Evil, thats the premise.

"Why amI forced to build towers on the sides? Why cant i simply block the path?" because otherwise this TD game would be void.

"Why..."

You see where this goes? The horde is an integral part of the game and you have to find a way to deal with it.

Once its optional, its not a threat anymore.

 
The horde is an integral part of the game and you have to find a way to deal with it.Once its optional, its not a threat anymore.
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That (at least in A16) i was the only one on my server who played the hordenights says enough in my opinion how much the people like this "integral part"

And it is optional.

On servers you log out

and singleplayer

B25B7FB83DF524E17FBFA3A76E1ECC2A4B841CF6


 
That (at least in A16) i was the only one on my server who played the hordenights says enough in my opinion how much the people like this "integral part"
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And I already explained why online servers are different.

In PvE you often didnt play the whole 7 days and do not feel prepared/it fair to have to endure another one.

In PvP (added to the other reason) most ppl build vs players and zombies just get in the way.

The option though is new. And while I KINDA disagree... why would you not want digging zombies now. Just disable bloodmoon if you don't want to fight it anyways and enable once you do.

 
You aren't. You can do whatever you want. But the horde finds you. That is the whole premise. If you run away, if you retreat underground hoping for them to not reach you, if you actively defend your base... you can do whatever you want.

But the horde will come no matter what you want.

"Why do I have to play with zombies?" because its Resident Evil, thats the premise.

"Why amI forced to build towers on the sides? Why cant i simply block the path?" because otherwise this TD game would be void.

"Why..."

You see where this goes? The horde is an integral part of the game and you have to find a way to deal with it.

Once its optional, its not a threat anymore.
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I just read through the Kickstarter page and see nothing about having to manually defend your base every 7 days against a horde of homing-zombies. In one part it says "Hold up somewhere safe at night as the lunar cycle speeds up and strengthens the zombies." which implies you don't have to be Rambo to survive. It does say "Enemies will claw, jump, climb and break their way through the world in order to get to you. They can see, smell and hear the player and can work in a group", but this implies that the horde would actually have to know you were there in order to attempt to reach you. Thus if I keep quiet and out of sight and smell range I should be able to avoid the horde. It even says "Crouch and sneak your way past enemies or throw objects to distract them. Find or craft sight, sound or smell deterrents and attractor recipes and items to exploit the sight, hearing or smell of the zombies to throw them off track." which implies stealth mechanics are a viable strategy.

 
From what I have seen, the only complications I see from the digging zombies are when people are trying to mine underground. The aggro range seems to be a little large. Regular wandering hordes and shamblers shouldn't be aggroing on people 20 meters under the ground and digging right to them.

The blood moon horde however, definitely should. You bet. This leaves PVP people the ability to build a secure underground location for their things. However, they should not expect to hide there from a blood moon horde. If the best TFP can do right now is a setting that allows digging or not, then that seems like a good short term solution.

 
If the best TFP can do right now is a setting that allows digging or not, then that seems like a good short term solution.
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I think that's the out for TFP - I rarely advocate for yet another in-game menu option, but this one just might warrant it.

 
I think game options are great and most survival games should have them to cater the experience to the players liking. However, from 7d2d's development standpoint many of these options should probably be added towards the end (closer to gold).

If every new feature that was implemented came with an on/off switch in the game menu it would be more difficult for the devs to tune them (especially if the majority of the testers turned them off right away before giving it enough time).

 
This.
By disabling digging you're taking complexity out of the game, dumbing it down even more, a thing that I believe many of us are a little disappointed with. At the same time I agree with Vedui, it really doesn't concern anyone how he plays, except him while he's playing his SP game. TFP trying to "police" every single aspect of the game because "the only safe place is the Title screen" is just not an efficient use of their time.

Many of the people I have read posting here, make their "day to day living/crafting base" underground. They still have a horde base in the surface to enjoy horde night (I enjoy it, makes all the hard work of finding better gun part... errr... looting feel worth it)

If it comes as an option, good! But to be honest the only thing they had to change is the ridiculous supersonic hearing of zombies. I for one hate digging zombies because one of my most loved activities in this game was mining. Had a mine in each of the biomes for ammunition. (and they were BIG mines too!). It took the edge off the game for a night or 2, while feeling I wasn't wasting my time as I was gathering resources for my projects. Kind of impossible now, even with perks.

As mentioned in other posts; an Oxygen system, Worms, or some other kind of threat for underground would be nice. NOT supersonic hearing zombies from above 40m layers of stone.

During horde night, EVERYONE should be ♥♥♥♥ed if underground. That's the point, they can SEE you.

(Unless you planned and invented some base design that can deal with horde night underground)

TL;DR:

Option to dig: good

Fix zombie hearing/detecting you through 40m of stone

On horde night, all bets are off. The can SEE you. Get ready.

Stop caring one ♥♥♥♥ of how other people play the game... EXCEPT in MP. (That will be a female dog to balance and I'm not touching that one)
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At this point, it doesnt seem to me that the standard game mode vision of the devs is a pure customizable sandbox mode but a more guided survival mode with RPG elements (SP/Coop). I love the direction and hope the devs continue to build upon it.

However, it is clear there are alot of people who dont like it (at least in it's current state) and prefer a more customizable sandbox experience. Out of coincidence, sandbox setups are usually also more multiplayer friendly. At the end of the day, If the devs cant develop a mode that satisfies most players, I hope they add a separate game mode that will make both camps happy.

 
I think game options are great and most survival games should have them to cater the experience to the players liking. However, from 7d2d's development standpoint many of these options should probably be added towards the end (closer to gold).
If every new feature that was implemented came with an on/off switch in the game menu it would be more difficult for the devs to tune them (especially if the majority of the testers turned them off right away before giving it enough time).
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That is a fair point and a quite valid one at that, I just think that in this case, it may be worth the extra effort in order to maintain those players who liked safe underground bases.

As I said, I'm not normally a fan of extra in-game menu options, largely for the reason you've pointed out exactly.

 
I think game options are great and most survival games should have them to cater the experience to the players liking. However, from 7d2d's development standpoint many of these options should probably be added towards the end (closer to gold).
If every new feature that was implemented came with an on/off switch in the game menu it would be more difficult for the devs to tune them (especially if the majority of the testers turned them off right away before giving it enough time).
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If most of the Testers disable a feature right away cause this testers dont like the entire Feature and how it should work then the Devs dont nede to tune it they should remove it or listen to Ideas this testers have how it could become better and something this testers would like.

Zombies digging will not become a great thing only with some tuning. It could become a great Feature if Zombies would not know the exact location the player is underground and would not start digging a straight line down to the exact location of the Player.

It could be a great thing if the zombies could only sense the Player if the Player make noise, have something build on surface like a small shack around the hatch or already had Zombies following him before he reached the Hatch to go underground or if the Player is not deep enough.

Also at same time Zombies would need a much better Balacing if it comes to Block damage and Digging, but why digging ? Why not let the Zombies attach the Hatch if they find it to go underground and hunt the Player?

There are so many Possible Ways how to make this more immersive and more Survival, but with all the Changes in Alpha 17 i dont see a chance the Pimps will make Digging better as it currently is, so Zombies will stay with insane Block Damage and will always know where the Player is and will dig only a straight line down .

 
If most of the Testers disable a feature right away cause this testers dont like the entire Feature and how it should work then the Devs dont nede to tune it they should remove it or listen to Ideas this testers have how it could become better and something this testers would like.
Zombies digging will not become a great thing only with some tuning. It could become a great Feature if Zombies would not know the exact location the player is underground and would not start digging a straight line down to the exact location of the Player.

It could be a great thing if the zombies could only sense the Player if the Player make noise, have something build on surface like a small shack around the hatch or already had Zombies following him before he reached the Hatch to go underground or if the Player is not deep enough.

Also at same time Zombies would need a much better Balacing if it comes to Block damage and Digging, but why digging ? Why not let the Zombies attach the Hatch if they find it to go underground and hunt the Player?

There are so many Possible Ways how to make this more immersive and more Survival, but with all the Changes in Alpha 17 i dont see a chance the Pimps will make Digging better as it currently is, so Zombies will stay with insane Block Damage and will always know where the Player is and will dig only a straight line down .
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How would the devs know the feature was disabled or not? Also, why was it disabled? All the testers would need to be required to provide feedback in order to get a good sampling size. Someone then would need to read and understand all of the subjective feedback and then come up with some sort of objective decision. Business decisions such as removing a feature completely are not done so lightly.

With all that said and done, it is more time efficient to just release the new feature with no option to turn off and get the feedback faster. This is Alpha after all. The time in development where features are added/removed/changed.

You have some interesting general alternative ideas. Your guess is as good as mine how easy/difficult would it be to implement in a unity voxel game such as 7d2d.

 
And I already explained why online servers are different.In PvE you often didnt play the whole 7 days and do not feel prepared/it fair to have to endure another one.

In PvP (added to the other reason) most ppl build vs players and zombies just get in the way.

The option though is new. And while I KINDA disagree... why would you not want digging zombies now. Just disable bloodmoon if you don't want to fight it anyways and enable once you do.
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I have literally never hidden from a horde night. I love them.

That being said, I'd turn off diggers in a hot second.

I don't go underground to hide from the 7 day horde, but it's annoying to have them constantly tearing up the landscape because I'm mining. Not because it's dangerous, but because it's ugly.

 
I just read through the Kickstarter page and see nothing about having to manually defend your base every 7 days against a horde of homing-zombies. In one part it says "Hold up somewhere safe at night as the lunar cycle speeds up and strengthens the zombies." which implies you don't have to be Rambo to survive. It does say "Enemies will claw, jump, climb and break their way through the world in order to get to you. They can see, smell and hear the player and can work in a group", but this implies that the horde would actually have to know you were there in order to attempt to reach you. Thus if I keep quiet and out of sight and smell range I should be able to avoid the horde. It even says "Crouch and sneak your way past enemies or throw objects to distract them. Find or craft sight, sound or smell deterrents and attractor recipes and items to exploit the sight, hearing or smell of the zombies to throw them off track." which implies stealth mechanics are a viable strategy.
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Because despite what some people think about the name of the game being 7 days to prepare for bloodmoon, there wasn't even a bloodmoon until A9? 10? I forget. Most of my hours playing this game were pre-bloodmoon at any rate. 7 days was the time you had before the infection killed you. Zombies could dig but they lacked GPS functions. Horde mode was actually a separate menu option for those who wanted to kill zeds in a tower defense style setting. Once they combined it into the main game then us mole people started getting called out for avoiding "The Main Point of the Game" *rolls eyes* And yeah, there were smells that could give you away, zeds could run in any darkness, even inside buildings during the day. THAT was nerve wracking. Ah well. Nostalgia ain't what it used to be, I guess.

 
I have literally never hidden from a horde night. I love them.
That being said, I'd turn off diggers in a hot second.

I don't go underground to hide from the 7 day horde, but it's annoying to have them constantly tearing up the landscape because I'm mining. Not because it's dangerous, but because it's ugly.
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And I'm about to spend my first horde night just driving my minibike because *drumroll* underground base 2 of my friends wanted to defend previous horde in did not worked as they have anticipated and diggers got to them.

Next horde onwards, I'm the defense designer.

 
But while I agree digging was a fix, teh rest of the AI is much more exploitable than on previous versions. And encourages much more boring building.

 
I just read through the Kickstarter page and see nothing about having to manually defend your base every 7 days against a horde of homing-zombies. In one part it says "Hold up somewhere safe at night as the lunar cycle speeds up and strengthens the zombies." which implies you don't have to be Rambo to survive. It does say "Enemies will claw, jump, climb and break their way through the world in order to get to you. They can see, smell and hear the player and can work in a group", but this implies that the horde would actually have to know you were there in order to attempt to reach you. Thus if I keep quiet and out of sight and smell range I should be able to avoid the horde. It even says "Crouch and sneak your way past enemies or throw objects to distract them. Find or craft sight, sound or smell deterrents and attractor recipes and items to exploit the sight, hearing or smell of the zombies to throw them off track." which implies stealth mechanics are a viable strategy.
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I really would like to know, where are these so-called "deterrents" the Kickstarter mentions? I've never seen in any youtube videos for pc or console something crafted that tricks zombies.

 
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