Viktoriusiii
New member
I looked for the old digging thread and didnt find it so feel free to add this there if you feel it necessary.
As there has been talk of me beeing overly negative towards TFPs I thought I support one of their decisions that they get criticised a lot for:
Digging zombies (and other exploits that make you avoid hordenightpreparations)
*please keep in mind I don't want to hinder your fun and I AM actually pro option to en or disable diggers (or use mods). What I am trying to argue is for the BASE game that most players play to have diggers*
I had this discussion quite a few times and the only two argument that ever come up is
"choice is good and it doesn't effect you" and I want to dispute this argument, at least in part
and
"you ruin my playstyle"
Choice is good. Not always, but overall, choice is good.
But there are choices that do on first sight add to the game, but in the long run simply mudy the waters.
I will give examples in Skyrim, as most people have played that game. (without mods obviously)
In Skyrim you can do many things:
You can pick flowers, you can explore the wilderness, you can cut firewood, you can explore dungeons, you can slay dragons or do quests and so much more.
Which is an overwhelming amount of different things.
But there are some things that many people never do or do once or twice and then never do again.
Cutting firewood, collecting fields and some of these other tasks are never beeing used in vanilla skyrim.
Why? Because there are way better options. Yes I can roleplay to be a woodcutter or a farmer, but that is not the same as fighting to collect gold. If I steal valuables from homes or clear dungeons, I get 1000s of gold in short amounts of time. I find useful items and shouts and more.
WHY would I ever cut firewood if there is nothing stopping me from getting x100 that without any drawbacks?
Yes you candie or get cought, but as quicksave is a thing, there is no real repercussion for it.
Why do you think there are things like ultra realism, price rebalancings, deadisdead, and more mods aiming to punish the "adventuring" and rewarding the more "realistic" work?
Because this means that there is a steady paceincrease and every part of the game is used.
Skyrim is a great game. It is insanely beautiful and exploring IS one of the biggest parts of the game. So cutting down certain feautres and things to do in favour of exploring is a good idea (without mods) and leave mods for those that want to enjoy other parts of the game. If there were something (like infinite smithing and selling for more money) that gives more and faster gold and xp than adventuring, why would you do the adventuring? Yes its fun. And that is the main point of the game. But your CHARACTER has no reason to risk his life going out there adventuring.
What is more fun? Facing a threat, overcoming it and having fun while doing it
or
beeing so bored that you put yourself at risk with no/little reward to have some fun?
Now to 7d2d.
The main focus, the main incentive of this game is survival. So there are two majoy threats that drive the player to do pretty much everything:
Zombies and food/hydration/elements.
Zombies are not a threat at daytime (except if they can surprise you) so their main threat comes from hordenight, where they know where you hide and are coming for you, running.
So if there is an easy, safe way to supress one of the two main threats (and lets be honest, food and hydration isn't really an issue) are easily subdued, it would be the same as if in Skyrim, something is worth A LOT more than exploring.
You lose a threat. It becomes an optional challenge that you only do when you are bored or when you want to farm xp.
It is the same as the looping exploits now. "why do you want to remove it? you don't have to use it?"
The second argument is even less logical in my mind.
How does it damage caverats?
Yes you cant be SAFE underground anymore.
But you could make an entrance to your cave and start luring them through your defences.
Or you could fight them above ground so they have no reason to dig to your cave.
Your playstyle is only damaged, if you are hiding in a cave underground on hordenight.
Either you try and build a bunker with an entrance or one without. The latter requires zombies to dig to get to you.
I hope this explains more or less, why from a DESIGN standpoint, digging zombies should be in the game.
There are other (morerealistic but also way more complex) ways to solve this issues, most ppl know either Airventilation or Maggots, but both require a big timesink in devtime, so I'm not blaming tfps. So digging zombies solve the issue of molepeople beeing 100% safe underground.
As there has been talk of me beeing overly negative towards TFPs I thought I support one of their decisions that they get criticised a lot for:
Digging zombies (and other exploits that make you avoid hordenightpreparations)
*please keep in mind I don't want to hinder your fun and I AM actually pro option to en or disable diggers (or use mods). What I am trying to argue is for the BASE game that most players play to have diggers*
I had this discussion quite a few times and the only two argument that ever come up is
"choice is good and it doesn't effect you" and I want to dispute this argument, at least in part
and
"you ruin my playstyle"
Choice is good. Not always, but overall, choice is good.
But there are choices that do on first sight add to the game, but in the long run simply mudy the waters.
I will give examples in Skyrim, as most people have played that game. (without mods obviously)
In Skyrim you can do many things:
You can pick flowers, you can explore the wilderness, you can cut firewood, you can explore dungeons, you can slay dragons or do quests and so much more.
Which is an overwhelming amount of different things.
But there are some things that many people never do or do once or twice and then never do again.
Cutting firewood, collecting fields and some of these other tasks are never beeing used in vanilla skyrim.
Why? Because there are way better options. Yes I can roleplay to be a woodcutter or a farmer, but that is not the same as fighting to collect gold. If I steal valuables from homes or clear dungeons, I get 1000s of gold in short amounts of time. I find useful items and shouts and more.
WHY would I ever cut firewood if there is nothing stopping me from getting x100 that without any drawbacks?
Yes you candie or get cought, but as quicksave is a thing, there is no real repercussion for it.
Why do you think there are things like ultra realism, price rebalancings, deadisdead, and more mods aiming to punish the "adventuring" and rewarding the more "realistic" work?
Because this means that there is a steady paceincrease and every part of the game is used.
Skyrim is a great game. It is insanely beautiful and exploring IS one of the biggest parts of the game. So cutting down certain feautres and things to do in favour of exploring is a good idea (without mods) and leave mods for those that want to enjoy other parts of the game. If there were something (like infinite smithing and selling for more money) that gives more and faster gold and xp than adventuring, why would you do the adventuring? Yes its fun. And that is the main point of the game. But your CHARACTER has no reason to risk his life going out there adventuring.
What is more fun? Facing a threat, overcoming it and having fun while doing it
or
beeing so bored that you put yourself at risk with no/little reward to have some fun?
Now to 7d2d.
The main focus, the main incentive of this game is survival. So there are two majoy threats that drive the player to do pretty much everything:
Zombies and food/hydration/elements.
Zombies are not a threat at daytime (except if they can surprise you) so their main threat comes from hordenight, where they know where you hide and are coming for you, running.
So if there is an easy, safe way to supress one of the two main threats (and lets be honest, food and hydration isn't really an issue) are easily subdued, it would be the same as if in Skyrim, something is worth A LOT more than exploring.
You lose a threat. It becomes an optional challenge that you only do when you are bored or when you want to farm xp.
It is the same as the looping exploits now. "why do you want to remove it? you don't have to use it?"
The second argument is even less logical in my mind.
How does it damage caverats?
Yes you cant be SAFE underground anymore.
But you could make an entrance to your cave and start luring them through your defences.
Or you could fight them above ground so they have no reason to dig to your cave.
Your playstyle is only damaged, if you are hiding in a cave underground on hordenight.
Either you try and build a bunker with an entrance or one without. The latter requires zombies to dig to get to you.
I hope this explains more or less, why from a DESIGN standpoint, digging zombies should be in the game.
There are other (morerealistic but also way more complex) ways to solve this issues, most ppl know either Airventilation or Maggots, but both require a big timesink in devtime, so I'm not blaming tfps. So digging zombies solve the issue of molepeople beeing 100% safe underground.
they outcry would be insane!!!