Why do the devs hate cheese builds in a single player open world game? Along with other play styles.

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Slingblade2040

Scavenger
Never going to understand how the devs are quick to throw in patches to nerf things and ruin base builds because players found a way to as they call it cheese horde night.

This is supposed to be a single player open world game. Players are supposed to have a choice on how they play the game but it seems the devs have changed their mind since alpha 16 and decided no we decide how you play a single player open world game.

The idea that these people think telling someone how tonplay the game and forcing them to do that makes the game more fun shows how out of touch they are and why so many bad game designs and mechanics have been implemented over the years.

Cant have underground bases, zombies AI is constantly changed to fight what they consider cheese builds with horde bases and vehicles get chased down by mach speed birds. Let's also not forget zombies getting a magic boost damage to blocks when grouped up and going into a rage mode where they target blocks if they fall a certain distance.

Before folks complain about multi-player that is a separate thing and should be treated as a separate entity. Whoever runs the server should set things up how they want it to run on that server. Expecting a game like this to be balanced or fair for both multi-player and single player is dumb. This is primarily a single player game.
 
Slingblade2040 said:
Cant have underground bases, zombies AI is constantly changed to fight what they consider cheese builds with horde bases and vehicles get chased down by mach speed birds.
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This is great.
I've been playing since A17, where I built a horde base on the doors and killed zombies in droves without much effort. Literally after 3 nights I got bored and abandoned the game.
A19 came out, where the vertical support disappeared from the doors. This forced me to spend about a month in the game before I found another base option.

Overall, these are good changes that make me look for other solutions to the problems that I successfully solved in previous versions. If it weren't for these changes, I would have forgotten about this game long ago.
 
LittleNightma said:
For me, making zombies smart is a good choice because it prevents us from getting too comfortable with our bases and it keeps us on our toes. If you had an end all be all build then blood moons would be pointless and not fun.
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To each their own, but I've never fundamentally understood the attractiveness of building a completely AFKable horde base, or the desire to sprint away from the blood moon without any risk to yourself or kills under your belt. Why not just turn hordes off at that point...?

Personally, I've tried my hands at "cheesier" designs (long thin walkway, various jumping puzzles causing 95% of zombies to fall or ragdoll off the edge), and let's just say I won't be revisiting them. But again, whatever floats one's boat.
 
Dark Sun said:
To each their own, but I've never fundamentally understood the attractiveness of building a completely AFKable horde base, or the desire to sprint away from the blood moon without any risk to yourself or kills under your belt. Why not just turn hordes off at that point...?

Personally, I've tried my hands at "cheesier" designs (long thin walkway, various jumping puzzles causing 95% of zombies to fall or ragdoll off the edge), and let's just say I won't be revisiting them. But again, whatever floats one's boat.
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I pretty much agree ^^
 
LittleNightma said:
I pretty much agree ^^
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To add onto this, sorry lol I'm happy that the devs fixed the issue where if you are above the zombies and they had no path up to you, they would have just congregated directly beneath where you were standing and never attacked anything. This was a problem in 1.0, maybe even going far back as A21. Now, they go into destroy area mode when they're in this position, bringing back my favourite type of bases from the dust: watch tower bases. :)

Which brings me into another segment... People can talk about cat and mouse all they want, but I am totally okay with devs from any game fixing problems that objectively break the zombie AI. I'm talking, like, this block turns them into passive mode, for instance. People who complain about such fixes... probably complain about everything, heh.

Cool pfp btw <3
 
Dark Sun said:
To add onto this, sorry lol I'm happy that the devs fixed the issue where if you are above the zombies and they had no path up to you, they would have just congregated directly beneath where you were standing and never attacked anything. This was a problem in 1.0, maybe even going far back as A21.
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I think this is still doable based on my observations last night. I went to the edge of one of the billboards, away from pillar. I shot a lumberjack, and for the most part he stood below me. I was crouched, but he should have seen me. It took me a lot of stone arrows, but he would go towards pillar at times, and I would land another shot, and he would come back to me below the spot I was crouching.
 
Rotor said:
I think this is still doable based on my observations last night. I went to the edge of one of the billboards, away from pillar. I shot a lumberjack, and for the most part he stood below me. I was crouched, but he should have seen me. It took me a lot of stone arrows, but he would go towards pillar at times, and I would land another shot, and he would come back to me below the spot I was crouching.
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Yeah, but that's different. I was referring to an entire horde of 20-30 zombies gathering right below you and doing nothing. The couple of times I experienced this during horde night, it was not at all appealing to me. :P (i.e. it was very boring)
 
Dark Sun said:
Yeah, but that's different. I was referring to an entire horde of 20-30 zombies gathering right below you and doing nothing. The couple of times I experienced this during horde night, it was not at all appealing to me. :P (i.e. it was very boring)
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Ya, what I am saying is that it appears the behavior still exists and you can still build a base that will do it.
 
Rotor said:
he would go towards pillar at times, and I would land another shot
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He's moving towards the pillar in DestroyArea -mode, and you shooting him resets that. All good for one zed you're constantly pelting, but a horde will spread out randomly, making them hard, if not impossible to hit quickly enough. And ofc, when you have the firepower for that, you're better off in plenty of other setups.
 
The problem is the war on cheese is a never ending escalation.
There are always going to be people who game the system, and the greater the lengths you go to to prevent them the greater lengths they will go to to get around it. Some of them pride themselves on it.
The normal players seem to be the ones who get punished.
 
LittleNightma said:
For me, making zombies smart is a good choice because it prevents us from getting too comfortable with our bases and it keeps us on our toes. If you had an end all be all build then blood moons would be pointless and not fun.
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It's already pretty easy to make a non-cheese base where you can AFK through pretty much every horde night.

Goes through a lot of ammo/darts, though.

And it's because the zombies are smart that it's possible. Back in A16, it was pretty impossible to build a non-cheese (cheese being basically anything exploiting the zombies not doing anything if they couldn't reach you vertically) base that was able to be afk'ed at. Now just build a small trench around your base, and they all go exactly where you want (or even easier, just double all the walls except the place you want them to attack.)
 
Slingblade2040 said:
This is supposed to be a single player open world game.
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No. It is a co-op PvE game that can be played solo.

In any case, they don't kill ways to cheese the game all the time. You can still do things to like double dipping and nerd poling and other things that are cheesy. But things that prevent zombies from having any chance to find you (underground bases when zombies couldn't dig) were broken. They weren't just cheesy. They needed fixed. There should be no way to avoid zombies entirely while they are enabled. Note that I am not saying you shouldn't be able to make an AFK base. But such a base will eventually be breached if you aren't playing long enough. That is why that is not the same problem as an underground base. And you can still have viable underground bases.

Just because the zombies can offer a *minor* challenge and you can't just AFK them doesn't mean the devs are transferring cheesy behavior. Rage mode isn't a problem. Block damage isn't a problem (and can be changed).
 
I look at it a little differently, A lot of people are always cheesing Windows OS,
of course the call it hacking instead, so MS comes out with updates, for the security
holes. TFP, probably observes them as unacceptable oversights, where their intended
game functionality is not as is needed, and does the same thing MS does.

People cheesed, Macromedia Flash; that is nearly defunct now, there are others but
each company handles their software not running as desired in different ways.

Is it personal, I don't think so, but since I don't have inside knowledge, I can only go by
other relatable examples.
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
I look at it a little differently, A lot of people are always cheesing Windows OS,
of course the call it hacking instead, so MS comes out with updates, for the security
holes. TFP, probably observes them as unacceptable oversights, where their intended
game functionality is not as is needed, and does the same thing MS does.

People cheesed, Macromedia Flash; that is nearly defunct now, there are others but
each company handles their software not running as desired in different ways.

Is it personal, I don't think so, but since I don't have inside knowledge, I can only go by
other relatable examples.
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This is an awful comparison. It's very superficial. Security flaws lead to compromised systems which lead to financial and other losses and all kinds of bad things. If you can't see the huge gap between the two I don't know what else to say.
 
I do see the difference clearly, in regard to finance and nefarious implication; but when I look at
situations i remove bias and personal feeling so that I can get a clear picture of what it is at it's
core, in order to address it accurately. Otherwise, if I inject emotion it will personally skew my view
in every change in everything and I would never be satisfied. In this game in order to address any
change that I am not fully comfortable with I just mod it back in or out. That is the basic foundation of
the platform that they chose to build on.

The binary thought of it to me is the person or persons or company
that created a piece of software, have or had a desired way for it to function. If it is pointed out
or found out that it does not function as intended, they have choices on how to handle it, stop
production of the software, fix the functionality of the software, or ignore it.

The example that I posted was looking at it without any bias.
 
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