PC Why A17 matches more than my expectations

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Wiltuschnik

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Usually i don't play experimental builds, cause i don't like big breaking bugs to destroy my immersion.

I even play not a big amount of hours(i got a son), so my testing is not that "useful" like many hardcore gamers.

After all the "turds" rain seen on that game and, in particular, on that release.. i decided to give it a try.

I updated the experimental release at least 3 times, 1 brand new map on the first version and 1 on the last (yesterday).

Playling with default settings.

THE GOOD:

Arrows mechanics are great

POI are great and with good loot (got more now at day 3 than day 40 in A16)

Zombie-killing harder, funny and NOT impossibile

Random gen and new graphic: nearly perfect

Standard items, damage bonus moved to player/mods = great idea

No corpses: works like a charm, and i'm the OCD corpse slaughterer

Cleaner, Faster,Funnier, Simpler, Thrilling gameplay.. time to move around like in TWD!

1) stamina-nightmare: FALSE

if you don't power-attack and run with shift EVERY single time you can, the stamina isn't going down that fast.

that + going with arrows stops your stamina loss, and feathers are everywhere.

And, ofc, not digging 2000 rocks + 50 trees in the first 3 days.

2) death spiral: FALSE

in the first game i died many times, for playling dumb, like hitting a boar having 25 hp and 2 arrows left..

or entering a POI fully encumbered

or going around without bandages

Even if you manage to die like a dumbass you can do something, it's tedious only if you play just bad or if you're unlucky.. but in a survival game you're supposed to play good, or tune down the difficulty.

3) no level 20 != only grind zombies

i don't see that terrible difficulty in looting not-huge POIs even at lev < 20

put all on a chest before entering, bow whenever possible..

the slow-backward is NOT a problem, with power attacks i do better melee now than A16 and it really works good (double attack is gone in one of the updates)

I cleared a full wandering horde of 10-15 zeds with 6 arrows and a single club (orange)

not only zombie grinding for sure.. but yes, looks like the best way to earn xp for now.

4) no big-base from scracth at start

seen in another discussion, and ok.. that's true.

now gathering at low levels is slow and stamina-intensive.. and, for me, IT'S GOOD

building a huge wood fort alone at day 1 is just wrong, it's not creative mode and it's not 7d2build-a-city.

waiting hours of gameplay to build a solid base is just what i expect from a game like 7d2d

5) KILLED THE FUN???

now i don't understand what mysterious forces are moving the ones that spits turds on A17.

Honestly, except the trader 0.0km bug and a backpack-wipe in a mission POI, what i see here is a nearly-finished game, even without traders and bandits the game is doing pretty well.

Recovering arrows from live/dead zombies and floor/walls is just so useful and realistic.

For the first time going around is really dangerous and that looks just great, the random cities are a dream.. realistic and beautiful.

Going around walking instead running, like TWD and any post-apoc film, gives a lot of time to look at things.. places are great, zombies ai is really better.. and a note from an OCD corpse looter-slaughterer: i don't miss 10 mins of after-horde-night cleanup.

Less is really more!

All looks so clean now.. bugs are there, but i played non stop from 2 to 4 hours every days and i enjoy every non-bug change i've seen.

THE BAD (actually only bugs/adjustments):

1) 0.0km trader bug

2) going over a stunned zombie for a power-attack throws you up (when he gets up) + broken leg sometimes (maybe the hit from below)

3) dying on a quest POI(fetch 1) looks like the dropped backpack disappears (not sure 100%)

4) the switch of the sky color/effect between biomes is a bit too rough

btw, the TFP.. really a masterpiece coming here!

thx a lot for the patience and work

not reading anymore the forums stuff, really too far away from the truth and objectivity

 
We've got a game built around voxels which absolutely kills performance and at the current trajectory they might as well just have a simple height map like Morrowind with destructible buildings.

 
First time I can 100% agree with OP.

Played standard setting till horde night.

No problem at all, no cops, no ferals, no vultures or dogs.

Gamestage was 35.

I don't get the hate

 
I'm loving A17.

There's some balancing and bug fixing and adjusting to do sure.

Also RWG is a mess.

So what?

This is Experimental!

It's not Stable and that means there's a lot that can change.

Shame people want to immediately attack.

Impatient.

That's okay.

I'm going to keep playing and enjoying it.

 
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Played standard setting till horde night. No problem at all, no cops, no ferals, no vultures or dogs.

Gamestage was 35.
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If players power-grind levels the best they can they will be rewarded with tougher hordes. That's working as designed.

It's still work in progress, too.

 
If players power-grind levels the best they can they will be rewarded with tougher hordes. That's working as designed.
It's still work in progress, too.
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Could be the main core of all complaints.

All focussed on grinding Z's to get lvl 20 and then complain that the enemies are too tough.

Maybe the players need balancing in their activities

 
If players power-grind levels the best they can they will be rewarded with tougher hordes. That's working as designed.
It's still work in progress, too.
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How else can I realistically gain xp without killing zombies?

 
Could be the main core of all complaints. All focussed on grinding Z's to get lvl 20 and then complain that the enemies are too tough.

Maybe the players need balancing in their activities
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Grinding for the sake of grinding.

- - - Updated - - -

How else can I realistically gain xp without killing zombies?
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Kill more zombies.

 
How else can I realistically gain xp without killing zombies?
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You say that as if player level is the only thing that matters.

You may a higher level but will find yourself with few building supplies. If that's the way you want to play, you're welcome to!

The game does not tell you to do one or the other. You make the plan, execute it, then either succeed or fail with it.

 
People can't handle change. That's nothing new.

I fully agree with the OP.

The game is finally difficult again.. It used to be a walk in the park in A16.4. I remember not dying in the first 5 weeks of gameplay.. what's the fun in that?

 
If players power-grind levels the best they can they will be rewarded with tougher hordes. That's working as designed.
It's still work in progress, too.
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Used to complain about level scaling long time ago, because I consider it to be problematic on many (figurative) levels, but now so much is balanced around it, it's no use :p

Anyway agree with the OP in general, that A17, despite any flaws or under/overtuning which are natural at this point of the game, exceeded my expectations and is a huge step towards the right, for me, direction.

 
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How else can I realistically gain xp without killing zombies?
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You are not getting the issue.

The more XP you earn the higher your gamestage, the higher you hordes will be.

Focus on getting your basics ready (arrows, armor and a hordebunker).

After you have your defenses up you can power level and improve your basics.

I

 
You say that as if player level is the only thing that matters.
You may a higher level but will find yourself with few building supplies. If that's the way you want to play, you're welcome to!

The game does not tell you to do one or the other. You make the plan, execute it, then either succeed or fail with it.
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No I am asking if there are other ways to get xp without killing zombies? But if that is the the only way to progress that is fine.

Player level does matters I believe in this game? i.e. to progress to farm to build to fight to run... maybe I am confused!

 
You realise that once everyone becomes familiar with the mini-dungeon POIs, they will just nerd-pole up to the roof (or wherever), and dig straight into the "treasure room", by-passing all the content that TFP spent a year devising?

I feel the POI mini-dungeons is a pointless and very over-done mechanic. How I long for "vanilla" house I can loot quickly and normally.

 
First time I can 100% agree with OP. Played standard setting till horde night.

No problem at all, no cops, no ferals, no vultures or dogs.

Gamestage was 35.

I don't get the hate
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Get to gamestage 90-odd (which will be around day #14 horde), and get back to us. My GS was 90 when I faced the day 14 horde and I had easily 20+ cops, coming 3 or 4 at a time and many many Irradiated Wights.

If you are a long term A16 player and know the game well, I would describe this horde as being equivalent to a GS 1500 Horde in A16. Normally, the sort of horde you'd be facing around day 100 in A16, so be ready for that.

Additionally with the new "flanking damage bonus" mechanics coupled with the "path of least damage" mechanics they added in A17, an A17 horde hits bases MUCH MUCH MUCH harder than the same horde in A16 would have hit a base. There is just no comparison.

 
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Used to complain about level scaling long time ago, because I consider it to be problematic on many (figurative) levels, but now so much is balanced around it, it's no use :p
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In a mod it's completely possible.

Scrub the quality/probability templates from loot and the gamestage/entitygroups files.

No gamestaged anything.

 
You are not getting the issue. The more XP you earn the higher your gamestage, the higher you hordes will be.
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I feel you are wrong in a couple of ways....

1) What you say is only really true if you do not die AT ALL (go lookup the new GS calculation for more info), or at least have not died recently.

2) There are key levels where certain Perks become available. Usually 10, 20, 30 etc. Reaching those levels typically give the player a huge boost in power (if he is spending his points sensibly). So if I power-level to 20, and you do not, and you are level 12 when I am 20, then yes, my GS is higher than yours and I will face tougher enemies, but I am FAR MORE able to deal with those tougher enemies because I unlocked key Perks that greatly increase my power. It's not a linear increase in power, due to the (stupid) gating behind levels.

 
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I feel you are wrong in a couple of ways....
1) What you say is only really true if you do not die AT ALL (go lookup the new GS calculation for more info), or at least have not died recently.

2) There are key levels where certain Perks become available. Usually 10, 20, 30 etc. Reaching those levels typically give the player a huge boost in power (if he is spending his points sensibly). So if I power-level to 20, and you do not, and you are level 12 when I am 20, then yes, my GS is higher than yours and I will face tougher enemies, but I am FAR MORE able to deal with those tougher enemies because I unlocked key Perks that greatly increase my power. It's not a linear increase in power, due to the (stupid) gating behind levels.
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I don't die :fat: so can't argue with that.

And if my fortress is close to falling I take the chickens way out.

No shame in running if dieing is your second option.

 
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