PC Whoever designed ''dungeons'' POI deserves a raise

- kinda feel like the game lost a big part of its charm and uniqueness when we lost the crafting grid

- And i say 'Have to mod 90% of the game for it to be enjoyable after the developers removed options and systems and made the game much less fun'.

- mods are supposed to be optional, not forced to make the game play like it used to

- the last alphs took 16 months to make

- I guess if TFP are that desperate to finish off the project and go to a full relase theres nothing we can do about it beyond warning people away from investment in any future projects.

- Not only this but the 'full release ' itself is a load of crap, TFP have said as much themselves, some features pushed back till after release... so... what? A full release thats missing features is not a full release.

Just looks like yet another cash grab to me personally.

- showing off an experimental unbalanced mess that is not even the game you will actually download and play is not smart marketing IMO. And giving it to streamers before the rest of us just creates haves and have nots between the community for no damn reason.

- This system litteraly dosent encumber you unless you use its magic slots and pays no mind at all to how much anything actualy weighs

- Who the hell are they trying to sell the experimental to? And why?

Like i get trying to sell more copies of the game as a whole but an experimental/testing build?
Yet again Wolfy a thread has turned into a personal rant fest.

I feel like maybe an apology to the OP is warranted for Hijacking their thread called:

"Whoever designed ''dungeons'' POI deserves a raise".

Pretty sure we were discussing POI's and adding some comments regarding our thoughts.

[For or against is fine.]

So I'll add mine here.

Sorry to the OP for anything non-POI related I might have posted.

I meant no disrespect.

Yes we've all gone off topic at times. Myself included.

This, however, seems a bit more than that.

I'm noticing your posts in many threads, Wolfy.

It seems to be a common occurrence.

Look I get that many have concerns about 7DTD and there are even some things we all might agree on.

What I think is improper is when this sort of thing gets out of hand.

I'm guilty of this at time myself and I could use some improvement.

I've also been held accountable for those times.... kinda like what's going on now.

Surely you're better than this.

 
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I'm having a totally different experience than you are.
I can clear a POI and only the zombies in the immediate vicinity wake up. With a few perks spent I can sneak and headshot most of them. I have tried jumping, hammering the wall and even throwing stones and nothing wakes up the sleepers hiding around the corner a large majority of the time.

I won't say all because there are times zombies do pop out of closets or fall from the rafters but it's very inconsistent. I'd love being able to run in, wake them all up and finish them outside but this just don't work for me.
This is with the perk from the agility tree that muffles your noise by I think 40% at level three going to complete silence at level five. But you will not have that until level three, which I think is player level twenty, which you will not be on day one.

Without the perk, and without using the sneak feature, a little noise is plenty for me. I can bang around downstairs in the Bears Den and wake up the zombie bears on the second floor.

That one is easier. Just lead the bears far away from the building and then go loot.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm with art.
It's predictable very quickly, makes little sense, and very easily cheesed.

The crawls are cute. Once or twice.
Yay, the Gup agreed with me? Second or third time it's happened, I forget.

At this point I might become a cool hanger on at some point!

 
Yet again Wolfy a thread has turned into a personal rant fest.
I feel like maybe an apology to the OP is warranted for Hijacking their thread called:

"Whoever designed ''dungeons'' POI deserves a raise".

Pretty sure we were discussing POI's and adding some comments regarding our thoughts.

[For or against is fine.]

So I'll add mine here.

Sorry to the OP for anything non-POI related I might have posted.

I meant no disrespect.

Yes we've all gone off topic at times. Myself included.

This, however, seems a bit more than that.

I'm noticing your posts in many threads, Wolfy.

It seems to be a common occurrence.

Look I get that many have concerns about 7DTD and there are even some things we all might agree on.

What I think is improper is when this sort of thing gets out of hand.

I'm guilty of this at time myself and I could use some improvement.

I've also been held accountable for those times.... kinda like what's going on now.

Surely you're better than this.
Erm, yeah, what he said! *hangs head in shame for going on rants my own self at times*

But yeah, I think I'm done with my thoughts on this thread, I've responded to the posts that resonate with me and I feel like I've made my opinion clear. Which isn't very different from enough opinions that I spose The Pimps would have heard it anyway without my braying.

To sum up; I DO like the dungeon crawls, they just feel way overcrowded with zombies that make no noise, pop out of nowhere, and those empty pallets someone else mentioned.

 
Yet again Wolfy a thread has turned into a personal rant fest.
I feel like maybe an apology to the OP is warranted for Hijacking their thread called:

"Whoever designed ''dungeons'' POI deserves a raise".

Pretty sure we were discussing POI's and adding some comments regarding our thoughts.

[For or against is fine.]

So I'll add mine here.

Sorry to the OP for anything non-POI related I might have posted.

I meant no disrespect.

Yes we've all gone off topic at times. Myself included.

This, however, seems a bit more than that.

I'm noticing your posts in many threads, Wolfy.

It seems to be a common occurrence.

Look I get that many have concerns about 7DTD and there are even some things we all might agree on.

What I think is improper is when this sort of thing gets out of hand.

I'm guilty of this at time myself and I could use some improvement.

I've also been held accountable for those times.... kinda like what's going on now.

Surely you're better than this.
Dont even pretend to know a sigle thing about me, what im better or worse than. Yes i derailed the topic a little but if OP has an issue with that they can ask us to take it to another thread if its detracting from thier thread (which i myself have done before).

 
Consider the BH.

An assault directed at the player every 7 days. The zombies for a short amount of time have supernatural focus.

I would say someone, some group or something is controlling the zombies.

If this is the lore TFP are working toward, then at least two things can be derived:

-Zombies that hide and try to kill the living were sent there.

-The game, when completed has an end game and whatever controls all the zombies will probably be too strong for just one player.

 
A weight-based encumbrance system would only work for this game if it excluded building blocks and materials, but there's no reason it couldn't be done that way. Have two sections to the inventory. One is the backpack, where most scavenged stuff is stored. There's no reason that couldn't be weight-limited, since you'd be talking about how many springs vs guns vs food vs arrows, etc you could carry. Since it mimics reality it should be a fairly intuitive and immersive system.

The other section of the inventory would be able to hold building and upgrade materials only and would be slot-based like the current inventory. Like the current system, it's a shortcut around the impossibility of building large structures by hand so it doesn't need to be "realistic". It only needs to facilitate moving obscene amounts of heavy materials around the world.

 
This is with the perk from the agility tree that muffles your noise by I think 40% at level three going to complete silence at level five. But you will not have that until level three, which I think is player level twenty, which you will not be on day one.Without the perk, and without using the sneak feature, a little noise is plenty for me. I can bang around downstairs in the Bears Den and wake up the zombie bears on the second floor.

That one is easier. Just lead the bears far away from the building and then go loot.
Sorry I probably wasn't clear. With the perks I can silent kill the place stealthing. Without the skills I can throw things, hammer the walls and jump around and the zombies in the next room don't wake up. That's what I meant. Rarely if ever have I had a POI with more than 3 or 4 zombies woke at the same time.

I clear out POI's at lvl 1 right after building my first club.

I have not fired guns however so perhaps that's the trick to waking up the house.

 
Crawlers under beds would be a riot!
- P
Hahahahaha!!!!

That would be awesome!!!!

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Why are you posting then .... exactly???
I was hoping that someone who had played would explain to me why a hand-made POI would have a better "dungeon crawl" experience than one that has procedurally generated room layouts. In what ways are the POIs "well designed"?

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I was hoping that someone who had played would explain to me why a hand-made POI would have a better "dungeon crawl" experience than one that has procedurally generated room layouts. In what ways are the POIs "well designed"?
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There are a lot of little things that let you know someone has taken the time to make this.

Some things are for jump scares, some for a laugh, some to add challenge.

I'm not saying a procedurally generated POI can't have some of those things, just not as good.

It's that personal touch that really takes something to the next level.

I still remember the first time going through the Building Site in A16.

Laughed like crazy!

It got me and actually gave me a jump scare.

It was awesome!

Dungeon Crawlers offer that same kinda fun.

The only caveat I have is that I'd like to see them along with normal POI's.

A Crawler should offer more challenge and better rewards.

If you're not up to it, hit a normal POI and loot the normal way.... get normal loot.

 
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There are a lot of little things that let you know someone has taken the time to make this.
Some things are for jump scares, some for a laugh, some to add challenge.

I'm not saying a procedurally generated POI can't have some of those things, just not a good.

It's that personal touch that really takes something to the next level.

I still remember the first time going through the Building Site in A16.

Laughed like crazy!

It got me and actually gave me a jumps care.

It was awesome!

Dungeon Crawlers offer that same kinda fun.

The only caveat I have is that I'd like to see them along with normal POI's.

A Crawler should offer more challenge and better rewards.

If you're not up to it, hit a normal POI and loot the normal way.... get normal loot.
How much fun would it be if the sequence of rooms or the placement of the traps/jumpscares was scrambled?

 
How much fun would it be if the sequence of rooms or the placement of the traps/jumpscares was scrambled?
Oh I'm not against procedural generation by any means.

I love the idea, in fact!

It would most certainly add to replayability.

They still wouldn't be as tailored as a hand crafted POI but I think they would be great.

Navezgane is fantastic because it's been manicured.

RWG is fantastic because it offers something new to explore and see.

[At least in A16. We'll see how A17 goes... jury still out on that one.]

I guess my point is that I'd like to see a blend of them all.

 
I disagree. I like 'em a lot.
Uh..... can you elaborate on what you're talking about?

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That post kinda of reminds of when someone yells out:

"I don't like CABBAGE!"

... in the middle of a conversation about car engines.

ycJWVNz.gif


 
That post kinda of reminds of when someone yells out:

"I don't like CABBAGE!"

... in the middle of a conversation about car engines.
Yeah, that's happened to me before. I learned Cabbage is slang for the strain exerted on the car frame from Curtain Air Bag Acceleration, really hard to get rid of.

-Dimpy

 
Uh..... can you elaborate on what you're talking about?
YfvQvpu.gif


That post kinda of reminds of when someone yells out:

"I don't like CABBAGE!"

... in the middle of a conversation about car engines.

ycJWVNz.gif
I like turtles.... :p

 
Yeah, that's happened to me before. I learned Cabbage is slang for the strain exerted on the car frame from Curtain Air Bag Acceleration, really hard to get rid of.
-Dimpy
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I don't .... know.... how to respond to that.......

 
You know you don't HAVE to put stuff in the slots that trigger encumbrance right?
I guess my question is, Would you rather have the backpack from A16 with its limited size or or the much larger A17 backpack that takes a little bit longer to open up?
Sorry for the late response but i prefer the bigger A16 default backpack.

When do you need the most space? When you start playing because you have no bike, mini bike, jeep with storage. You need a lot of intact tools, cooking pot, raw resources etc.

But after a specific point, you simply do not care anymore about adding extra storage point. A lot of "junk" you simply scrap, it was useful at the start but you reached a point where you prefer the raw ingredients over the loot. You also get access to storage in your vehicle. And most people still use drop chests instead of wasting perks on more storage.

In the end, you simply do not care anymore. For now locked slots are simply a forced two points dump and after this you rather put points in weapon buffs, mining, crafting or other more useful perks.

...for overdoing it.
A zombie falling from fake ''stone ceiling'' in mine POI ? HAHA. I laughed so much.

Oh the cringe.
No kidding. Remember, the Sleeper system was promised as a way to "spice" up the empty houses and prefabs. Now you needed to wonder, if that dead body we had in A15, really a dead body or a sleeper. We already had too many zombies in A16 in the houses compared to the capacity. A17 made it even worse.

But instead of going quality, they have gone quantity. Sleepers are now standing in corners, because they can get faster upon you. Sleepers in cabinets and fake walls. Sleepers in barrels. Sleepers in roofters.

And so "strategically" placed so when for instance you enter a garage, they are right above you when you enter and will fall behind you or to your side.

The POIs actually are boring. The normal route is always the same. Hidden zombies, floors obvious for falling down, ferals in the top or bottom location ( end point of the route ). Every one looks almost the same with its sandbags, pallets and typical forced routes. Lets also not forget the landmines placed in just the right spots where a player may jump over a bag, that yells "stay on the roller coaster route!". Some POIs look nice, like a meth lab etc but it gets ruined with the whole zombie/traps/... everywhere.

Where are these many people who do not like the changes?
Challenge, yes, bring it on! But keep the challenge semi realistic. Yes, the carry weight is not realistic and we do not need to go in that detail a thousand times. But the game world tried to go for realism. Now we are in a situation that almost every house is a dungeon or they will all be when the Pimps finish them. You already know what to expect. The challenge aspect is present on the first time you play but it fades very fast into disbelieve. And one turns tired of seeing the same tricks all the time.

Its like a horror movie. If you overuse jump scares, your movie tends to flop. Because people anticipate it everywhere.

I see same 20 people over and over ranting on forums and 20.000 playing the game in silence.
People who do not like the changes are vocal minority, nothing more.
Well, i love something and because 20.000 other people are playing a game, it means they must also love it. That sums up your comment. Fallout 76 has a lot of people still playing the game, despite it being a complete train wreck out of the door.

Its easy to misuse on argument and us it as a statement to silence all complaints.

But if you like state:

July 10, 2017: Peek was 32.765 players

November 19, 2018: Peek was 27.389 players

So the game people have waited for 16 months, has a lower peek then A16. 20% less people played A17, then A16.

4 Weeks later, A16: 21.072 players, 11.693 lost in players. 35.6% drop

4 Weeks later, A17: 19.162 players, 8.227 lost in players. 30% drop

Both releases are losing a very close amount of active players.

This for a Alpha that enhanced on A16 by:

a) Hyped for a long time then A16

b) Has a massive amount more streamers, twichers etc. With a more international public of streamers.

c) Had a more orchestrated "launch"

d) Introduced a lot of new game changes, changes that supposed to keep people playing for longer by slowing the game down.

e) 7D2D launched with also mass discounts

So no offense but i am not seeing a lot of "mass" approval, as you state. I am seeing a lower active player base then in A16, with almost the same percentage wise drop levels. I can even state that 27k peek was a dismal number for TFPs, when you had so many people waiting for it.

Here is another interesting fact:

A16 has less organised streamers but hit 40K twitch viewers, where as A17 hit only 25K peek viewership. So please do not use the argument that people need to "opt in" into the beta. Twitch has total no requirement like this. The people opting in are actually the same die hard players that you see complaining on this forum.

So please, counter argue with "People who do not like the changes are vocal minority" because my states are showing that A17 is actually not going very good for the pimps. The delay in gameplay speed has kept 5% more players longer playing then A16 but this really is weak sauce.

And the main reason for the drop is the same as all the year before. The game offers nothing interesting after point X. The middle or late game lacking content. Imaging they spend 16 months improving 7D2D with more actual content to keep the game fresh and interesting after playing it a few weeks. You know, that thing we "complainers" have been complaining about the last 3 years. Electricity in A16 looked like a nice step forward but look at us now. 16 Months later and still the exact same freaking content. And a nice downgrade on same of the gameplay mechanism as extra.

In my eyes, not to be negative, i feel that TFPs expected more out of A17 as a money machine.

 
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