PC Whoever designed ''dungeons'' POI deserves a raise
- Thread starter Hadecro
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Exxodous
Active member
That's definitely one way to do it albeit the easy boring way. Try always run and stay in the house. I'm guessing your approach would be much different ie, sneaking and trying not to wake them. You would be glad to "know" where they are so you could try and pick them off one at a time, quietly.
Viktoriusiii
New member
Do you work at buzzfeed? Cause you took my statement SO far off context, it became its own entity living on pluto.
FFS. Cheap jumpscares like FNAF aren't good gamedesign.(hell even in those videos there is a sort of counterplay and explanation behind them)
I didn't say jumpscares in general/shocking moments are bad. But they need to be well implemented and have a reason to be there.
If in Resident evil, there was 2 minutes of silence, suddenly big white flash and screaming and after that, nobody talked about it or explained it again (like hallucinations or a ghost or whatever), that is NOT a good jumpscare.
A guy with an axe who was previously seen aquiring the axe and been shown to follow you, who suddenly breaks down the wall in front of you IS a good jumpscare.
There is a difference.
Viktoriusiii
New member
I already play with always run(or jog dont remember) but why would I stay there? I want to roleplay as a survivor. I'm not an esl challengemaster or twitchstreamer who purposefully makes life harder for himself. If they don't want that, make them less easily triggered or let random zombies walk through the outside door when they hear you break something (there gps tracking would actually make sense, because they followed the sound)
Exxodous
Active member
I understand but we all roleplay differently. What seems like making life harder for you might mean more realistic for others. For me it makes more sense to roleplay sneaky attacks vs the make a whole bunch of noise drawing them outside tactics. That noise might bring other zombies from other locales which would be more dangerous. If I get overwhelmed then I retreat to the street if necessary.
Plus dragging them outside is to easy and boring (to me) as I stated earlier. Trying to stay inside and dispatch them one at a time is more challenging IMHO. My only "complaint" with this style is when I do miss one and it drops from the ceiling or breaks out of a wall, I wish it made some sort of sound. More often than not the first clue I have he fell from the attic is red blobs on my screen. lol
Viktoriusiii
New member
Don't get me wrong! If there was a benefit to sneaking, I would also do it. But since I need to fight them anyways (because if you get the questobjective they "activate" automatically, or if you need to break through a door they automatically come from behind)
I love that you have fun that way
And I support your right to play the way you like.
That doesn't make it good gamedesign
I can have fun with lots of games that have bad gamedesign in them... people had fun in Fallout 76 when they played with friends... but you know... it was still Fallout 76!
And I know I say "gamedesign" more often than I probably should. I'm sorry
I just try to convey my thoughts... and I do not know how to tell you what you did right/wrong without saying that word (probably lacking in the vocabulary department ) please don't hold it against me and try to see my points, rather than trying to paint me as pretentious (not accusing... just having a feeling if I say it one more time without adressing it, someone will think that )
I love that you have fun that way
And I support your right to play the way you like.That doesn't make it good gamedesign
I can have fun with lots of games that have bad gamedesign in them... people had fun in Fallout 76 when they played with friends... but you know... it was still Fallout 76!
And I know I say "gamedesign" more often than I probably should. I'm sorry
I just try to convey my thoughts... and I do not know how to tell you what you did right/wrong without saying that word (probably lacking in the vocabulary department ) please don't hold it against me and try to see my points, rather than trying to paint me as pretentious (not accusing... just having a feeling if I say it one more time without adressing it, someone will think that )I dont want to download 1000 mods to fix parts of the game, i know how to mod it myself i just want the vanilla game to also be good and be good for more people(options).
As far as how i would design it: it begins first with a game option (world settings) for on/off (most important feature, means people who dont want to play with encumbrance are not forced to)
As far as the rest of it goes: assign every item a weight value and have a system where you can carry as many diffrent items as you want but weight (eg actual encumbrance ) is the thing that limits how much you can carry, its super easy to make the backpack a dynamic grid instead of a fixed one (has 5 slots if you have 5 types of items, 7 if 7 ect). Id draw up some mockup UIs (i love designing UIs) but im not at my PC.
I guess somewhat similar to ARK: Survival evolved (havent played more than 10 mins of it) only with less ridiculous stat pumping (im fine wih player level/whatever increasing this value... a little.. like at max level carry maybe 20% more.
Another thing that springs to mind is Project Zomboid (♥♥♥♥ that game is awesome), it lets you place items in bags (tiered) that give them a weight reduction but have a limited capacity and you can equip a bag on back/primary/secondary hand to carry 3 but no weapon, dunno if this would work for 7 days but bags with weight compression would be great.
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Kaiote
New member
Loving the new POI's. Last night on our Co-op Nav map game we hit up the Wild West village, which is all non-dungeon "Old School" buildings. We found it stale as all hell. Risk/reward was meh, sleepers were a non-issue, and there was no real risk of getting stuck in a oh crap moment inside due to wandering narsties. The next day we rode our bikes to Diersville. Polar opposite. Had a couple good near misses, great risk/reward, and left in a hurry, infected and battered from the wandering cop/dog/biohazard horde that poured into the last POI while we were breaking safes. IMO it is night and day, vastly prefer A17 POI's.
Doctor3D
New member
I have to agree. I love the new POIs. Though - i can admit they might be just a bit too many of them that are dungeons. But, overall I love them.
I think these POIs are MUCH more fun in co-op though at higher difficulty and when you're still a relatively low level so the pressure is still there and you have to take everything tactical. After awhile though - once you've perked and you're loaded with modded guns and have ammo galore - it's like playing DOOM in them.
Guppycur
Well-known member
Dungeon crawls are good. Check.
There are waaaay too many. Check.
It would benefit design if non crawls turned to crawls for the quest magic, and if static blocks weren't so prevalent. It would also be great if every homeowner didn't have pallets of ... Nothing? It's just weird. Check.
There are waaaay too many. Check.
It would benefit design if non crawls turned to crawls for the quest magic, and if static blocks weren't so prevalent. It would also be great if every homeowner didn't have pallets of ... Nothing? It's just weird. Check.
I really like the dungeon crawl poi's. Love the detail, and creativity that went into them.
Too many of them though, so they lose their flavor and impact after a short time.
Need more non-dungeon crawl type poi's to be more prevalent, and have the dungeon crawlers, dot a hub/wilderness, instead of having so many of them spawn all the time.
Maybe have your poi builders make duplicates of all the poi's, without the crawl aspect, with all the extra pallets and stuff littering them.
Make them have a chance to be replaced in the list between the 'crawl' and the 'non-crawl' versions.
Would probably help make them stay and feel more special, not knowing if it's a crawler type poi or the standard type.
Too many of them though, so they lose their flavor and impact after a short time.
Need more non-dungeon crawl type poi's to be more prevalent, and have the dungeon crawlers, dot a hub/wilderness, instead of having so many of them spawn all the time.
Maybe have your poi builders make duplicates of all the poi's, without the crawl aspect, with all the extra pallets and stuff littering them.
Make them have a chance to be replaced in the list between the 'crawl' and the 'non-crawl' versions.
Would probably help make them stay and feel more special, not knowing if it's a crawler type poi or the standard type.
LuckyStar
New member
Yeah they are special and should remain that way by making them less common.
Nothing wrong with having just regular run of the mill POI's that you loot and go, kinda thing.
They won't have those hidden goody boxes.
You want to find excellent loot?
Take on a crawler.
That's what I'd like to see.
A good balance of them.
Nothing wrong with having just regular run of the mill POI's that you loot and go, kinda thing.
They won't have those hidden goody boxes.
You want to find excellent loot?
Take on a crawler.
That's what I'd like to see.
A good balance of them.
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Kaiote
New member
Perhaps my enthusiasm for them is due to the fact that I've mostly been playing the Nav map, which seems to not have the same issues with repetition. Yes, plenty of similar "floor gives way" or "zombie in the closet" but each POI feels pretty unique. The day experimental was released I recall reading a statement that said the devs highly recommended playing Nav over RWG, and I can see why. I've decided to wait on making my own critique of RWG until it is ready, as POI-type spawns seem to be the least of its issues whilst it is an obvious WIP.
Exxodous
Active member
So the option is there for you to fix your perceived problems, but you want someone else to do it for you?
The Vanilla game may not be good for you but what you want changed may very well not be good for everyone, right? Our opinions probably differ drastically, which version should TFP cater to? I'm guessing their vision will win out.
Again, if their vision involves encumbrance why should they allow it to be turned off? That's like saying Super Mario should have had the option to bypass water worlds....I hated those. Creative people create, but rarely do they create someone else's version, they create their own. Take art for example, I'd never buy a Rembrandt (no matter how much money I had) as I think they are hideous. But obviously some people think it's great and so did the artist. This game is really no different, some are going to enjoy their version, others are not. The difference is they have allowed us to Mod it to our hearts content. That is part of their vision. Your welcome.
Where do you draw the line on how much weight? I'm assuming stone, wood, cement would be high? Gonna make builders pretty mad if they can only carry 20 stones. Or would you set it higher? 50? 500? 5000? If you set it low just different people are complaining, set it high and you've made no encumbrance system at all.
Your shining example of a good system comes from a game you have put a whole 10 mins into??? Sounds like a horrible game to me.
Scyris
New member
Before we even start about the zombies, we should look at how our char is bascally the hulk that can carry like tons worth of stone/wood/concrete/steel. Not to mention how a simple home brewed anti-biotic is all it takes for you to fight off the zombie infection. Trust me there is lots of realism breakers more than zombies poping out of closets. I like the dungeon poi's for one reason myself, If its a dungeon style poi it ALWAYS means there is a fat juicy loot room in there that always has things that can spawn nice toys for me. I rarely bother with old style poi's unless its one I know has a safe in it anymore, or if its one of the wilderness ones that might have a forge if I need one. Besides, the dungeon Poi's are bascally exp ballons just waiting to be poped, as they tend to have higher spawns of zombies than old pois do.
I like the jump scares myself, also the dungeon poi's make sense if you think about it, the survivors (now turned zombies inside) were trying to fortify their base/home, but they screwed up and the zombies managed to find a way in. Every dungeon poi usually has a open entrance.
Yisiscreise
New member
I love the new pois, they are awesome in details and content, love them! the only thing i want are... more! more pois of this quality!
Viktoriusiii
New member
Have to agree.
While I do think certain things should take multiple slots (chassis and accessories 2x2 (4 slots) ) just to make it obvious how big that car is... Slots are basically the only way to do it in regards to an encumberance system.
Otherwise you would need a skyrim esque system where you can carry infinate feathers but only 10 blocks of stone... which, in a building sandbox, makes no sense!
Ghostlight
New member
I've played reasonably far in both Navesgane and RWG and if the complaint is there are too many POIs, then Navesgane is the worst culprit. Gut feeling is 70 to 80% of all POIs are dungeons (at least in towns) in Navesgane, versus about 50% in my RWG.
I too feel there are too many, because that is because of other problems with A18...namely the bullet-sponge nature of the enemies, especially early game. This makes deungeon POIs tedious at best and a waste of time at worst. If combat was more fun, quicker and interesting and didn't go for the universally maligned bullet-sponge approach, then dungeon POIs would be far more welcome.
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