PC Who prefers old zombie world deployment over this?

The thing is zombies in the wilderness are just easy XP. Of course you can make them sprint night and day, but in this case you won't ask for more zombies strolling around. I only die in POI with A17 (and I'm fine with that) because zombies can surprise you. Not the case when they are outside, quietly waiting for an arrow or a bullet.
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There’s a reason there are so many reports of people leading zombies in POIs outside in order to kill them...

To me, A17 feels like it does have more outside zombies than A16. Nothing compared to days of old, of course, but maybe as the game gets optimized they will continue to up those numbers.

 
The thing is zombies in the wilderness are just easy XP.
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Completely different problem. Also, btw, one that was supposed to be fixed with A17.

The loot changes were supposed to make zombies go from being a resource (source of loot) to an impediment. But A17 changed the way progression works and now zombies are a bigger resource than ever.

You're right, of course. With the way zombies are implemented now, scattered zombies outdoors are just free xp. The stealth system means they won't group up how they did before. The xp from the zombies means the first person to enter a town gets a free level or two. Only the 0,0 city-levels of zombies (from A15 or earlier) would be any threat, and that threat would be counteracted with blood moon horde levels of xp gain, with daytime horde levels of threat.

With the mechanics they have in place now, as-is, they really can't just wave their hands and say "boom! zombie distribution reverted to A15 style."

But that doesn't mean I don't still miss it. It doesn't mean that sleepers were an improvement. And it sure as heck doesn't make the world feel less empty.

 
Strongly agree with OP. I started in A15, so I got to experience both. I think also that not all (smaller) buildings should have sleeper zombies. This will keep players on their toes. Also bring back 0,0 hub city - that can solve the issue with level scaling being lame by having 0,0 be infested with wandering hordes of irradiated and feral zombies and make it incredibly dangerous endgame level content

 
Totally agree with the OP. In fact, I made a mod a few months ago that addresses this problem. I suggest checking it out:https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?104644-Increased-sleeper-respawn-delay-other-stuff
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You mean....tried?

Does it work or doesn't it? The thread you linked seems to indicate it won't work as long as the devs have the spawning numbers hard coded. Why send hopefuls to your thread if the mod doesn't work... and if it turns out it does work maybe update your thread to indicate that fact because I just got done rolling my eyes after following your link. :)

 
You mean....tried?
Does it work or doesn't it? The thread you linked seems to indicate it won't work as long as the devs have the spawning numbers hard coded. Why send hopefuls to your thread if the mod doesn't work... and if it turns out it does work maybe update your thread to indicate that fact because I just got done rolling my eyes after following your link. :)
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There are two parts to the mod: One that changes spawn rates, and one that adjusts the time it takes for a sleeper volume to reset after you clear it out

The spawn rate changes work just fine. There are about twice as many wandering zombies, and half as many sleepers.

The part of the mod that doesn't work is the sleeper respawn delay, which is hard coded, but that's not as relevant to this discussion.

 
Disagree. The game design as it is now allows for a wide variety of gameplay approaches from smash and grab assaults to tactically sneaking through POIs clearing hiding spots as you go. While some would thrive on dialing every moment up to 11 and making 7 Days to Die 'a nearly nonstop stream of zombies homing in on your location', for many that would reduce the game to too much of a spastic 3D version of some arcade-ish side scrolling zombie shooter.

Incremental changes are nearly always better than complete reversions or drastic changes in a new direction. The number of zombies wandering city streets and the wilderness can be incrementally dialed up until it feels right or even made a future configurable feature. Tweaks to AI, daytime horde pathing, possible future interaction with non-player NPC survivors, bandits, etc. will create hot zones of greater zombie density and activity. Tension and impending peril can be increased locally depending on player actions or perhaps at specific POIs without universally inflicting that across the entire map.

I do agree at times the world does seem a tad dead instead of undead - but I'd rather see the gameplay closer to what it is now than endless battle or a frantic always looking over your should run for your life.

 
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I agree with OP but I do like Some sleepers in Some buildings.

But not always. Right now you break in the door (They are all locked which is also annoying - you cannot sneak in), then back up for the standard big flood of zombies to flow out. Then move in for the next big flood of zombies which you have no choice but to back away from. It's as tedious as the obligatory "shoot the zombie in the head and he always gets back up if he is an 800 hp or more zombie..

Then you have to shoot him again - always. We need variety in where the threats come from.

A 9mm bullet to the head should usually kill a zombie. A 7.62 should almost always kill one etc.

I also miss the outside zombies and somehow we need a greater number of zombies but those zombies should be easier to kill if hit in the head.

The other change I would like to see is to go back to the old xp system so we can play a zombie survival game instead of a zombie hunting game.

In the earlier Alpha's I had to try to hide from the zombies now I'm happy when I see a bunch of them because its pretty much the only way I can advance.

 
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Agree some what with the OP. Prefer more wandering zombies, but I like the POI's too. Why can't we have both?

The lack of wandering zombies and threats in the cities is a part of why I stopped played 17.2 for now, along with RWG.

 
To each his or her own. I strongly prefer the sleeper system of A16, since

1) Large numbers of outdoor zombies quickly became punching bags for xp, loot and skill-ups.

2) Even with a few more overall zeds, clearing out a given POI was pretty trivial in A15 or prior due to the constant doorway conga-line.

I suppose there could be some value in making true cities return to a state of teeming with zeds, but I overall found A16 deployment to be an improvement.

 
One thing I've noticed is that as our zombies get cooler looking, as the world gets better visual quality, we lose more and more zombies that can roam the world or can run at a base on horde night.

Seems TFP went ditched massive amounts of zombies for better visuals.

Now, I'll probably be told I'm wrong. But that is the trend. :shrug:

 
There are two parts to the mod: One that changes spawn rates, and one that adjusts the time it takes for a sleeper volume to reset after you clear it out
The spawn rate changes work just fine. There are about twice as many wandering zombies, and half as many sleepers.

The part of the mod that doesn't work is the sleeper respawn delay, which is hard coded, but that's not as relevant to this discussion.
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Thanks. I'll give it a try. :)

 
Strongly agree with the OP.

I started in A12, so I remember when there was no grace period when you spawned in, the central hub city was *crawling* with dogs/cops/ferals, and roaming hordes could have 30-40 zombies in them (and they came straight for you). That was before mocap zombies, sleepers, and even leveled loot. And yes, though it had its issues (some of which were doozies) the game was way more fun than now.

The general outdoors was pretty sparsely populated even then, so you could still mine/chop/farm in relative peace. And there were variables in the xml that let you determine how dense you wanted those countryside zombie populations to be and how long between respawns so it was really easy to tailor (though it would have been better to have brought those variables out into menus).

But when you wanted a challenge... it was off to the city with you and it was SO MUCH FUN! I remember hubby and I venturing into a city once we thought we were well enough equipped. The first two buildings went smoothly enough but then we got into trouble and had to break out the guns and probably 80+ zombies boiled out of the nearby buildings and streets. We fought a staged retreat back down the road we'd entered along, killing them by the dozens, dodging bees and zombie puke, and finally died at the crossroads when we got flanked and foolishly decided not to run away.

It was GLORIOUS.

Nothing in A17 allows for the places to feel that alive or threatening. The focus is all on leveling skills and Fallout-esque canned missions/dungeons (the POIs) - a game structure that is *designed* around a player character that can't die because they have to finish playing through a story. The raw tower defense mechanics that made the game so great have all but disappeared.

I still enjoy playing the game, and there have been some notably fun times in some of the better-designed A17 POIs. They're a good addition. But having played for so long, I definitely feel like the game has turned the wrong way and is losing the things that made it so special.

 
It's just not fun in A17. I've put in a couple of thousand hours in A15 & A16. I eventually took down my server do to lack of participation (including myself) in A17. What was a game with some flaws that was contently improving took a turn for the, not just worse, but radically changed mechanics that took all the fun out of it. IMHO. I'll keep checking back as it was a great game, with a few mods to pickup the slack. Now, I can't even play it.

 
Hey, "GOOD NEWS" everyone...

I have just verified that "entity_spawner" entries in spawning.xml file are an obsolete code, which is not used for spawning sleepers. Changing anything for them doesn't influence anything, as the file could be missing and you STILL get sleepers spawned after a few days.

Ehh... smh... Back to the drawing board...

 
100% agreed with OP. I like world spawns and sleepers, but if I have to choose, give me world spawns.

Dungeon POIs do nothing for me, especially when it's EVERY POI.

 
Comparatively speaking? I'm in favor of the current zombie spawning system over the old one on the basis of performance alone. Some blood moons killed my server. However, do I think it's good? Not really, no. There is more emphasis on searching for hidden zombies than there is on the horror factor of a zombie apocalypse. The hidden zombie/sleeper should be a thing, but if it's the only real threat, and usually by surprise or glitch, then it fails to improve the zombie mayhem. It's virtually no different than the run in and drag them out grind of old, except now instead of looking for sleeping zombies, you're looking for closets and sleeping zombies.

The other thing I've noticed is the AI is still a big problem, compounded with a number of bugs than send zombies "jumping" up the sides of walls on top of each other. It's not quite World War Z mount of zombies climbing, but rather singles leap frogging on each others heads to get to the higher levels. The spikes aren't as effective anymore and some zombies just glitch through barriers. Granted, these might be bugs, but it still hurts the games sense of purpose. Zombies are mindless and when confronted with an obstruction, they should either go around, or start bashing whatever is in front of them. Not have a zombie rave that results in zombies shimmying up the sides of buildings.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I was always partial to creating horde units that were single units, but looked like clusters of zombies. When these horde units are spawned, they'd be surrounded by a handful of single zombies to give it a more organic look and as players took out the horde units (dropped in down in health), it would start to break apart into single zombies. IE: a horde unit is "10" zombies, once the horde unit is down to 50% health, it breaks apart into 5 single zombies. I'd also make it so the horde units do significantly more damage to blocks and if a player is caught too close, would yank them in for an instant, gory mob death.

Just a thought to bring back the mob of zombies, thus a zombie apocalypse FEEL, without hitting the performance too hard.

 
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